# Anything To Increase SECURITY: Electronic Strip Searches should be mandatory **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 26, 2005, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-to-increase-security-electronic-strip-searches-should-be-mandatory/305567 "2005-05-26T06:12:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-to-increase-security-electronic-strip-searches-should-be-mandatory/305567/21 "2005-05-26T15:18:56Z")
> [@](#): > > I’d love to travel by Amtrak. I live in the largest city in Ohio. Do you know how far it is to the nearest Amtrak station? 2.16 miles from the centroid of ZIP code 43201 to the station at 111 E. Town St. Of course, that’s just bus service to the station in Cleveland, or Toledo. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-to-increase-security-electronic-strip-searches-should-be-mandatory/305567/22 "2005-05-26T15:25:00Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > Or CSI-style, where they zoom in ten times in a row, to read the serial number on the boxcutter? I think true CSI-Style would have the person walk through a High-Frequency Weapon Detecting Unit, which would detect the serial number, the composition of the materials in the boxcutter, and analyze all DNA present on the weapon. It would then cross-reference the serial number and composition to the FBI’s databases, which would show that the DNA on the weapon doesn’t belong to the person carrying the weapon. All in a manner of seconds and from 10 feet away. Then they’d arrest him and present the evidence, but he’d remain defiant until David Caruso flipped his sunglasses up, at which point he’d break down in tears and confess. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-to-increase-security-electronic-strip-searches-should-be-mandatory/305567/23 "2005-05-26T16:31:08Z")
Jeez, **Metacom** , and I thought Jack Bauer’s shouting was intimidating. Makes me wonder who would crack first? Why don’t they just point the satellites that they use in 24 at the airports - you know, the ones that can look inside a building and tell you not only how many people there are by room, but also what floor they are on (but can’t find a missile launched towards LA from Iowa). Anyone wants to ogle me, go right ahead. Then begin visiting a therapist to address your bad taste. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-to-increase-security-electronic-strip-searches-should-be-mandatory/305567/24 "2005-05-26T16:40:52Z")
Flying in an airplane exposes folks to radiation as well. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-to-increase-security-electronic-strip-searches-should-be-mandatory/305567/25 "2005-05-26T17:47:41Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > In every airport I’ve been at the general public could see what the security folks are seeing on their x-rays, for luggage at least. With this machine are they going to make some effort that only secuirty people can see the images, or will there always be a crowd of dirty fucks with their hands in their pockets behind the security counter, fapping their thanks to Osama bin Laden? And what time should I show up? Actually, given some of the people they have working for the TSA, i think i’d prefer that my fellow-flyers get the view. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-to-increase-security-electronic-strip-searches-should-be-mandatory/305567/26 "2005-05-26T19:54:23Z")
Might be easier to just crank airline cabins to 72[sup]o[/sup]F, and make everyone fly nude. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-to-increase-security-electronic-strip-searches-should-be-mandatory/305567/27 "2005-05-26T22:45:16Z")
Nothing quite like a fuzzy greyscale anatomy picture to really get my engine revving :rolleyes: If those bastards want to see my naked grey ass, that’s on them. They’re gonna have to deal with the image, not me. heh. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-to-increase-security-electronic-strip-searches-should-be-mandatory/305567/28 "2005-05-26T23:05:02Z")
[http://www.freedomisslavery.info/images/backscatter.jpg](http://www.freedomisslavery.info/images/backscatter.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-to-increase-security-electronic-strip-searches-should-be-mandatory/305567/29 "2005-05-26T23:28:33Z")
> [@buttonjockey308](#): > > Nothing quite like a fuzzy greyscale anatomy picture to really get my engine revving :rolleyes: If those bastards want to see my naked grey ass, that’s on them. They’re gonna have to deal with the image, not me. heh. Sure, but what about the naked grey, yet somehow strikingly pert breasts of your teenage( daughter (if you have one). Clearly it’s nonsense to say _ANYTHING_ to increase security is OK; binding all of the passengers from head to foot in duct tape, then loading them onto their flight inside reinforced steel coffins would probably increase security (in some ways) and certainly falls under the umbrella definition of _ANYTHING_, but I don’t think it would really be an acceptable trade-off. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-to-increase-security-electronic-strip-searches-should-be-mandatory/305567/30 "2005-05-27T02:11:40Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > Every one of your arguments could apply to a suggestion that everybody should be strip-searched for real. Would you advocate that? Cavity searches are entirely consistent with the logic expressed in the OP. > [@Balle-M](#): > > Amtrak Not acceptable. True, the potential for disaster is lower in a train than a plane. Nonetheless, a well-timed derailment can kill hundreds. Ultimately, we may need to extend similar security measures to ground transport that involves large numbers of people. > [@Mangetout](#): > > …binding all of the passengers from head to foot in duct tape, then loading them onto their flight inside reinforced steel coffins would probably increase security… I shall take your hypothetical proposal under advisement, consistent with the logic expressed in the OP. Thank you. Human life is precious. Protecting it from the terrorists must remain our highest priority. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-to-increase-security-electronic-strip-searches-should-be-mandatory/305567/31 "2005-05-27T02:33:20Z")
Obviously, I put [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6201354&postcount=433) in the wrong thread. > [@Robert Anton Wilson](#): > > “…But they can rule by fraud, and by fraud eventually acquire access to the tools they need to finish the job of killing off the Constitution.” > > “What sort of tools?” > > “More stringent security measures. Universal electronic Surveillance. No-Knock Laws. Stop and frisk laws. Government inspection of first-class mail. Automatic fingerprinting, photographing, blood tests and urinalysis of any person arrested before he is charged with a crime. A law making it unlawful to resist even unlawful arrest. Laws establishing detention camps for potential subversives. Gun control laws. Restrictions on travel. The assassinations, you see, establish the need for such laws in the public mind. Instead of realizing that there is a conspiracy, controlled by a handful of men, the people reason - or are manipulated into reasoning - that the entire populace must have its freedom restricted in order to protect the leaders. The people agree that they themselves can’t be trusted.” > > […] > > “…At present rate, within the next few years the Illuminati will have the American people under tighter surveillance than Hitler had the Germans. And the beauty of it is, the majority of the Americans will have been so frightened by Illuminati-backed terrorist incidents that they will beg to be controlled as a masochist begs for the whip.” ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-to-increase-security-electronic-strip-searches-should-be-mandatory/305567/32 "2005-05-27T04:35:58Z")
On that note, perhaps I should set my irony aside. (BTW, nice quote **Larry**.) **Mangetout** nailed it: we need to apply a rough cost/benefit approach. I contend that backscatters are unlikely to pass such a test in practice. On the benefit side, the article shows that their effectiveness is rather less than perfect. Monetarily, I suspect that the devices are expensive. Furthermore, not having my naked image posted on the internet is certainly an amenity. Indeed, control of that image touches on some rather fundamental privacy issues, not the least of which is the right not to be made to look ridiculous. And I’m a guy. For many women, cultural conservatives and I suppose certain celebrities and politicians, the stakes may be higher. * * * The “Nobody is forcing you to fly, etc.” argument is a red herring. While requiring business travelers to undergo strip searches is less burdensome than requiring everyone to do so, the former still impinges on liberty. Meaningful penalties for choosing privacy don’t have to be criminal: some may take the form of lost employment. ## I am disturbed that this story has received such little attention. The tradeoffs between security and freedom should be a matter of public debate. Furthermore, the notion that other benefits of civilization -liberty and privacy are two- can be worth more than safety should be conventional wisdom[sup]1[/sup]. Finally, I don’t necessarily want to rule out this technology. With the proper procedures and automatic pixelization of the head and other areas, judicious application of this technology might be acceptable. But I suspect that in the end expeditiousness would prevail. * * * [sup]1[/sup] Weak spot in my post: perhaps this _is_ conventional wisdom of a sort. Still, one might think that discussion of trade-offs could be a little more explicit. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-to-increase-security-electronic-strip-searches-should-be-mandatory/305567/33 "2005-05-27T21:12:24Z")
Did you think airport security couldn’t get any more invasive? [guess again](http://news.com.com/Airport+screeners+could+see+X-rated+X-rays/2100-7348_3-5718163.html). > [@](#): > > The Homeland Security Department is preparing to install and test high-tech machines at airport checkpoints that will, as the comic-book ads promised, “See Thru Clothing!” > > Get ready for electronic portals known as backscatters, expected to be tested at a handful of airports this year, that use X-ray imaging technology to allow a screener to scan a body. And yes, the body image is detailed. Let’s not be coy here, ladies and gentlemen: > > “Well, you’ll see basically everything,” said Bill Scannell, a privacy advocate and technology consultant. “It shows nipples. It shows the clear outline of genitals.” Low paid airport security cretins are now going to be ogling yours or your wives’ or your daughters’ nude bodies as you go through security. It’s necessary to protect our freedom and dignity, you see. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-to-increase-security-electronic-strip-searches-should-be-mandatory/305567/34 "2005-05-27T21:16:47Z")
So, how does somebody become an airport screener, anyway? Is there a form I have to fill out or something? ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-to-increase-security-electronic-strip-searches-should-be-mandatory/305567/35 "2005-05-27T21:21:59Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > So, how does somebody become an airport screener, anyway? Is there a form I have to fill out or something? I imagine that the controls for those things will lock up due to some “mysterious sticky substance” gumming up the works. I wonder if there’s an S-Video out on those things? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-to-increase-security-electronic-strip-searches-should-be-mandatory/305567/36 "2005-05-27T21:29:39Z")
quick, you should tell [this poster](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=318327) ! ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-to-increase-security-electronic-strip-searches-should-be-mandatory/305567/37 "2005-05-27T21:31:25Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Did you think airport security couldn’t get any more invasive? Well, actually, this strikes me as _less_ invasive than a pat-down or having a magnet-wand slid over me. I save those last two activities for non-travel occasions. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-to-increase-security-electronic-strip-searches-should-be-mandatory/305567/38 "2005-05-27T21:37:01Z")
> [@wring](#): > > quick, you should tell [this poster](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=318327) ! I hate when that happens. :smack: I looked to see if this had been done but I missed it. Apologies for a redundant thread. ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-to-increase-security-electronic-strip-searches-should-be-mandatory/305567/39 "2005-05-27T21:40:45Z")
I demand that all passengers get an up to the elbow full cavity search! I won’t be happy until everyone on the plane feels as if they have been probed by a moose! Further, I am writing my legislators to demand that they institute a mandatory nudist policy for all commercial flights. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-to-increase-security-electronic-strip-searches-should-be-mandatory/305567/40 "2005-05-27T21:57:28Z")
> [@Binarydrone](#): > > I demand that all passengers get an up to the elbow full cavity search! I won’t be happy until everyone on the plane feels as if they have been probed by a moose! Further, I am writing my legislators to demand that they institute a mandatory nudist policy for all commercial flights. You might want to be careful about advocating that “full nude” policy. There are some people that require two seats. It’s your call. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-to-increase-security-electronic-strip-searches-should-be-mandatory/305567.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anything-to-increase-security-electronic-strip-searches-should-be-mandatory/305567.md?page=3)