# Anzac Day **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 24, 2003, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anzac-day/170947 "2003-04-24T21:08:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![LolaCocaCola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7cd45c/32.png) [@LolaCocaCola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LolaCocaCola)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anzac-day/170947/21 "2003-04-25T11:17:01Z")
:: sigh :: I can’t believe it’s already been a year since I was at the Anzac Day Parade in Sydney. ---
**Author:** ![phraser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a88e4f/32.png) [@phraser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phraser)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anzac-day/170947/22 "2003-04-25T11:21:01Z")
> [@](#): > > _originally posted by Ice Wolf_ > There is nothing “glorious” in Anzac Day – it’s a sombre memorial. I don’t think I’d have as much issue with it if it actually were… but from watching news coverage, and from participating in many ceremonies… There seems to be this public perception (flag waving parades, etc) that it’s a celebration of war. News reports which describe ANZAC day “celebrations” as being glorious national pride moments don’t seem to be about sombre memorials for the dead. And thanks for your thoughtful comments 🙂 > [@](#): > > _originally posted by ninevah_ > Anzac Day is the sombre celebration and a homage to a campaign which was a defining moment for Australia as a new nation. And we want to be defined by an act of war? I think that there are a lot of other things which adequately define Australia as a country. My personal opinion is that ANZAC day may define a very small part of what Australia was in 1918, and that we’ve progressed from that so far that celebrating what was then as our ideal now is regressive. IMHO nationalism is also a bad idea wrt peace. Please don’t misconstrue- I’m not saying that it’s wrong to honour the sacrifice of those killed in war, and I’m not saying that we shouldn’t remember. My thought is that the “legend” is being taken too far, that it’s being corrupted to the cause of nationalism instead of being used for the warning it is. I don’t think the deaths of 8000 people on the other side of the world should be cause for any celebration, even if they were “the defining moment of a nation”. I don’t think the war dead are anything to be _proud_ of. ---
**Author:** ![Ice\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@Ice\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anzac-day/170947/23 "2003-04-25T11:30:32Z")
**phraser** , I respect your point of view. I haven’t had experience of Anzac memorials in your country, only in mine. But I do urge you – take this to Great Debates, not here. ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anzac-day/170947/24 "2003-04-25T11:41:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by phraser \* > \*\*I don’t think the war dead are anything to be _proud_ of. \*\* Annnnnnnd simpleton it is! ---
**Author:** ![ninevah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/46a35a/32.png) [@ninevah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ninevah)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anzac-day/170947/25 "2003-04-25T13:12:30Z")
**Phraser** , it’s obvious that you’re going to argue your point (which I find is _very UnAustralian_) till the cows come home, so I won’t bother arguing with you. On a personal note, I participated in my first Anzac march today (as a member of my local fire brigade) and I was very proud and honoured to be part of it. So, how have fellow Oz/NZ dopers noted Anzac Day today? ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2003, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anzac-day/170947/26 "2003-04-26T04:40:45Z")
**Lest We Forget** With proud thanksgiving, a mother for her children, England mourns for her dead across the sea. Flesh of her flesh they were, spirit of her spirit, Fallen in the cause of the free. Solemn the drums thrill: Death august and royal Sings sorrow up into immortal spheres. There is a music in the midst of desolation And a glory that shines upon our tears. They went with songs to the battle, they were young, Straight of limb, true of eye, steady and aglow. They were staunch to the end against odds uncountered: They fell with their faces to the foe. They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old: Age shall not weary them, nor the years contemn. At the going down of the sun and in the morning We will remember them. They mingle not with their laughing comrades again; They sit no more at familiar tables at home; They have no lot in our labour of the day-time; They sleep beyond England’s foam. But where our desires are and our hopes profound, Felt as a well-spring that is hidden from sight, To the innermost heart of their own land they are known As the stars are known to the Night; As the stars that shall be bright when we are dust, Moving in marches upon the heavenly plain; As the stars are starry in the time of our darkness, To the end, to the end they remain. They shall grow not old … as we that are left grow old Age shall not weary them, nor the years contemn At the going down of the sun, and in the morning, we will remember them ---
**Author:** ![Ice\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@Ice\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2003, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anzac-day/170947/27 "2003-04-26T04:47:29Z")
**Duckster** … thank you. Very, very much. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2003, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anzac-day/170947/28 "2003-04-26T05:06:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ice Wolf \* > \*\ ***Duckster** … thank you. Very, very much. 🙂 \*\* Your welcome. I play Eric Bogle (And The Band Played Waltzing Matilda), Redgum (I Was Only 19) and Cold Chisel (Khe Sanh) every ANZAC Day. Something about those songs did it to me while in Oz … ---
**Author:** ![Maxxxie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f14d63/32.png) [@Maxxxie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maxxxie)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2003, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anzac-day/170947/29 "2003-04-26T12:29:40Z")
For me, ANZAC day represents an opportunity to remember the fallen, and reflect on what their sacrifice brought for us (be it good - freedom; or bad - lots and lots of dead people)… but for ME… ANZAC day is about the living. I went to Brisbane’s ANZAC march this year and we were all screaming ourselves hoarse cheering the various solders, sailors and airmen parading before us. These people have made a conscious choice to serve their country - some will die doing it. They have my utmost respect. Max 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2003, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anzac-day/170947/30 "2003-04-26T13:05:35Z")
Just as in the case of the Iraq War, what you are seeing at Anzac parades is support of the soldiers, not the glorifying of war. Sometimes the media like to paint a picture of them being heroes, but really they’re people in a horrific situation who managed to survive. They deserve our respect as soldiers, not glorification as heroes. Unless they really were heroes, and accomplished extraordinary feats, but they are few. ---
**Author:** ![Alcibiades](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/cab0a1/32.png) [@Alcibiades](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alcibiades)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2003, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anzac-day/170947/31 "2003-04-26T15:30:28Z")
Anzac Day is not a celebration of war dead. It is a time for reflection. In Perth in Western Australia, Kings Park overlooks the CBD. There is a ghost gum tree planted for every dead Western Australian in WW1. The idea, I guess, is that the trees are a living memorial to each of the war dead. Each tree has a plaque, detailing the dead soldier’s name, rank, place of death and cause of death. Some of them are ghastly in their simplicity: “Died of Wounds, Ypres, 1917”. There are far too many ghost gum trees in that park. Australia lost more lives per capita than any other country in WW1. The flower of a generation, dead in barbed wire and Flanders mud. Lest We Forget. ---
**Author:** ![Ice\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@Ice\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2003, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anzac-day/170947/32 "2003-04-26T17:48:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Alcibiades \* > \*\*Australia lost more lives per capita than any other country in WW1. > \*\* While the [Australian War Memorial website](http://www.awm.gov.au/atwar/ww1.htm) doesn’t say anything about Australia losing more lives per capita than any other country (there was a [recent thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=167805) concerning this), the site _does_ say: > [@](#): > > For Australia, as for many nations, the First World War remains the most costly conflict ever in terms of deaths and casualties. From a population of fewer than five million, 300,000 men enlisted, of which over 60,000 were killed and 156,000 were wounded, gassed or taken prisoner. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/anzac-day/170947.md?page=1)