# AOC as James Mason in The Verdict - Not a Good Look **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 25, 2019, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-as-james-mason-in-the-verdict-not-a-good-look/842289 "2019-10-25T18:34:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2019, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-as-james-mason-in-the-verdict-not-a-good-look/842289/21 "2019-10-25T23:42:10Z")
> [@Annoyed](#): > > Watched snippets of that on Twitter the other day. It fascinates me on a psychological level how people can see totally different things when it comes to AOC. > … Your hunger for knowing the full story is inspiring! ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2019, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-as-james-mason-in-the-verdict-not-a-good-look/842289/22 "2019-10-26T00:16:49Z")
When I first heard about her, I assumed she was some lightweight who sneaked through the cracks. But, I can’t disagree more with the OP. She is very, very smart and very, very good at this. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2019, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-as-james-mason-in-the-verdict-not-a-good-look/842289/23 "2019-10-26T01:24:14Z")
AOC was doing well what she intended to do, and getting her messaging through to whom she wants to get it, whether or not we agree with either her premises or her intent. She’s not as amazing as some people wish but neither is she some naïf adrift. OTOH like many real world matters of policy this is \*\*not \*\*“a simple Yes or No” question. It’s not even one single question. But for her political purposes she is using it effectively. > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > That works if sources are generally truthful. If they don’t need to tell the truth, all you can expect from multiple sources is a random collection of lies. > > The press and media are afforded great legal protections. I don’t think it’s too much to ask for a certain amount of truthfulness from them. In the USA the mainstream print press has been allowed to get away with all sorts of things short of provable libel or outright obscenity since anyone bothers to remember. And I would not have it any other way. \*Broadcast \*media, being public franchisees, are on a tighter leash but the requirement of “fairness” was done away with a generation ago. Non-broadcast, you go back down to the print press standard. But part of the whole deal is that debates on whether or not Facebook/Twitter/et al \*\*\*are \*\*\*“press” or a “common public space” or a repository of the public interest, are still ongoing. And Zuckerberg being a designated punchmonkey of the 116th Congress from both right and left does not impress me, as I see them flailing at their own inability to do something about the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2019, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-as-james-mason-in-the-verdict-not-a-good-look/842289/24 "2019-10-26T02:26:35Z")
> [@Annoyed](#): > > Watched snippets of that on Twitter the other day. It fascinates me on a psychological level how people can see totally different things when it comes to AOC. > > I had second-hand humiliation watching her obviously rehearsed pea-brain self question Zuckerberg about complete shit for the cameras and her soundbites & clips. > > She perfectly embodies and personifies the woke millennial liberal virtue-signaling liar. > > And she clearly does not understand or see the irony in her line of questioning. Considering the source, I take this as a ringing endorsement of AOC. ---
**Author:** ![Unreconstructed\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/76d3ee/32.png) [@Unreconstructed\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unreconstructed_Man)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2019, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-as-james-mason-in-the-verdict-not-a-good-look/842289/25 "2019-10-26T02:57:35Z")
Who are all these stupid cunts getting their news from Facebook? It seems like they’re everywhere, but I’m 100% certain I’ve never met anyone that dumb. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2019, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-as-james-mason-in-the-verdict-not-a-good-look/842289/26 "2019-10-26T03:54:16Z")
> [@Unreconstructed\_Man](#): > > Who are all these stupid cunts getting their news from Facebook? It seems like they’re everywhere, but I’m 100% certain I’ve never met anyone that dumb. I’m 100% certain you have, but just don’t know it. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2019, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-as-james-mason-in-the-verdict-not-a-good-look/842289/27 "2019-10-26T04:37:24Z")
Interesting thread! **Fiddle Peghead** starts by linking to a FoxNews clip readily available from more responsible sources. Pro-Tip for **Fiddle Pegs** : next time have your nephew or the kid who cuts your grass Google to find you a less laughable source. Using a FoxNews video tells us all we need to know about your “opinion.” Second: _Of course_ AOC is grandstanding to some extent. Zuckerberg can and will send more complete answers for the record. But let me ask **Fiddle Pegs** : Have you ever watched a Gopster ask questions of a witness? What did you think of the Gopsters breaking into a closed session 2 days ago? Anyone who finds AOC’s performance to make the Top 1000 List of recent bad behavior by Congresspeople is [del]ignorant as shit[/del] probably getting all their info from FoxNews and Facebook. > [@bobot](#): > > Unfortunately for humanity there are lots and lots of really stupid people out there who believe any damn thing they see on Facebook. Definitely. I don’t know of any easy solution to this problem, but we should acknowledge that it _is_ a problem. > [@Icarus](#): > > She really is rather skilled at questioning. Which is why the right is so fascinated/afraid of her, which is why Fox covers her so much, in their own inimitable spun and edited way. > [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > When I first heard about her, I assumed she was some lightweight who sneaked through the cracks. But, I can’t disagree more with the OP. She is very, very smart and very, very good at this. I liked her charisma when she was just the random media darling. But she is definitely a much better-than-average Congressperson by now. (I mean “better-than-average Democratic Congressperson.” Without the “Democratic” qualifier, the bar is very low.) > [@Alessan](#): > > He’s an idiot with access to nuclear weapons - _of course_ the left is terrified of him. The right should be, too. You seem unfamiliar with today’s “right-wingers.” If Trump went berserk and got American cities bombed, the right would blame the libtards for pushing him into it, and chortle that the cities were most fully of libtards anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2019, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-as-james-mason-in-the-verdict-not-a-good-look/842289/28 "2019-10-26T05:42:16Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > When I first heard about her, I assumed she was some lightweight who sneaked through the cracks. But, I can’t disagree more with the OP. She is very, very smart and very, very good at this. Agreed. I have a huge cerebral crush on AOC (the packaging ain’t bad, either, but that’s a non-related digression). She’s brilliant at her job, and gets more impressive every time I see her. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2019, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-as-james-mason-in-the-verdict-not-a-good-look/842289/29 "2019-10-26T07:14:13Z")
…just to take a deeper dive into this: > [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > A question as phrased was, essentially, “would you run an ad by a Democrat saying his opponent supported the Green New Deal”? Total bullshit question. First off, if there _is_ a Republican who supports it, why would they NOT run it? The line of questioning here was to establish “where the line would be drawn.” The first question was about an falsehood that could cause “voter suppression”, and Zuckerberg said that yes, those adverts would be removed. She established that there was a threshold that political adverts would get vetted. Her second question wasn’t “would you run an ad by a Democrat saying his opponent supported the Green New Deal.” It was “Would I be able to run advertisements on Facebook targeting Republicans in primary saying they voted for the Green New Deal?” You claim these two statements are “essentially the same.” But they aren’t. It wouldn’t have been hard for you to type the verbatim quote. But you chose to make something up. Why did you do that? > [@](#): > > Obviously her implication was that no Republican would ever do such a thing, so she wanted to know if Facebook would run an ad with “disinformation” in it. But no, that would be too simple a way to pose the question, now wouldn’t it? Why be clear and concise when you can obfuscate in an attempt to make someone look like a fool? She was clear and precise. How was she not? > [@](#): > > In other moments, Zuckerberg stated that an ad giving a wrong election date would be taken down, but when he tried to explain that he is of the opinion that in a democracy, he believes people should be able to judge the character of politicians themselves, she cut him off. In fairness, he was able to get his answer out but, Concannon, excuse me, Ocasio-Cortez, **clearly wasn’t interested in the answer**. Why would Ocasio-Cortez be interested in **an answer to a question that she didn’t ask?** Zuckerberg has stated over-and-over again his opinion that “people should be able to judge the character of politicians themselves.” We knew that before the hearing started. He repeated it in response to other questions. You’ve listened to the rest of the questions right? Surely you are aware that he answered with variations of this very same response over and over again? What is it do you think the purpose of these hearings are? Should they be used to hold the rich and the powerful to account, or should they be opportunities for the rich and the powerful to simply repeat talking points and propaganda? > [@](#): > > Despite this obvious distinction, she was able say with a straight face that there was a simple yes or no answer to her question about taking down ads with lies in them. It was a simple yes or no question. How was it not a simple yes or no question? Zuckerberg testified for hours. Yet he couldn’t answer many different variations on that question. We are still none-the-wiser. Do you think that’s a good thing or a bad thing? > [@](#): > > Finally, in a moment top-flight propogandists would be proud of, she waited until the end of her five minutes to pose a question about ongoing dinner parties with far-right hosts, where white supremacy is evidently made out to be a hoax, a rather long-winded question that Zuckerberg didn’t quite get. But no matter, the question was left to hang in the air as, oh well! she was just out of time. We got this news [today](https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/25/20932653/facebook-news-breitbart-mark-zuckerberg-statement-bias). At the last election Facebook employees were embedded in the [Trump campaign](https://thinkprogress.org/facebook-embeds-trump-campaign-70217364e82d/). The staff at Facebook might overwhelmingly vote Democrat, but everyone in power supports the [Republicans](https://popular.info/p/the-republican-political-operatives). These are serious issues for a single reason: **what happens on Facebook could turn the next election.** They need to be addressed. Maybe if Zuckerberg had spent less time waffling and more time answering the questions then “the question wouldn’t be left to hang in the air.” > [@](#): > > To be clear, this is not about whether Zuckerberg’s/Facebook’s policies are the best ones. I am not aware of them in detail. This is about the left’s ever-increasingly taking up the tactics of the right for political gain. Don’t get me started on Rachel Maddow for the last year or so! AOC should be better than this, and a few months ago, I think she was. This is not the right path for her to be going down. AOC’s tactics were akin to those of a prosecutor handling an uncooperative witness. This is exactly the path she should be going down, and it should be the path that all the Democrats take. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2019, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-as-james-mason-in-the-verdict-not-a-good-look/842289/30 "2019-10-26T08:25:54Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > Agreed. I have a huge cerebral crush on AOC (the packaging ain’t bad, either, but that’s a non-related digression). She’s brilliant at her job, and gets more impressive every time I see her. Same. As a lad with left-leaning sensibilities, I dread the coming of the day when we’ll have to put her, too, on The List. What ? ---
**Author:** ![Annoyed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f04885/32.png) [@Annoyed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annoyed)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2019, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-as-james-mason-in-the-verdict-not-a-good-look/842289/31 "2019-10-26T09:09:18Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Considering the source, I take this as a ringing endorsement of AOC. Not surprising. I feel the same when the members of this board shit on a right-wing politician. But for real (and politics aside) she really is a moron and the perfect caricature of an annoying, woke liberal who’s a super _duper_ victim. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2019, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-as-james-mason-in-the-verdict-not-a-good-look/842289/32 "2019-10-26T09:56:57Z")
> [@Annoyed](#): > > But for real (and politics aside) she really is a moron and the perfect caricature of an annoying, woke liberal who’s a super _duper_ victim. Show me on the doll where Congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez touched you. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2019, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-as-james-mason-in-the-verdict-not-a-good-look/842289/33 "2019-10-26T11:20:29Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Your hunger for knowing the full story is inspiring! He’s following it EXTREMELY closely. ---
**Author:** ![Annoyed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f04885/32.png) [@Annoyed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annoyed)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2019, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-as-james-mason-in-the-verdict-not-a-good-look/842289/34 "2019-10-26T12:19:25Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Show me on the doll where Congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez touched you. Show me on the doll where Republicans touched you ---
**Author:** ![Annoyed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f04885/32.png) [@Annoyed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annoyed)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2019, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-as-james-mason-in-the-verdict-not-a-good-look/842289/35 "2019-10-26T12:21:51Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > He’s following it EXTREMELY closely. I do follow her and her crew on Twitter. I’m basically an expert 😃 And she IS a moron. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2019, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-as-james-mason-in-the-verdict-not-a-good-look/842289/36 "2019-10-26T12:45:18Z")
Maybe you should debate her. Show us who the moron is. I know where my money’s going. ---
**Author:** ![Annoyed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f04885/32.png) [@Annoyed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annoyed)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2019, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-as-james-mason-in-the-verdict-not-a-good-look/842289/37 "2019-10-26T12:52:57Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Maybe you should debate her. Show us who the moron is. I know where my money’s going. Haha when has AOC debated anyone, ever, from the other side in an open dialog? Answer is never. She is extremely good at shielding herself from criticism and only speaking when she is rehearsed and in a setting with like minded people. She falls the fuck apart when she has to shoot from the hip & ad lib. She’s fake, and a fraud. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2019, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-as-james-mason-in-the-verdict-not-a-good-look/842289/38 "2019-10-26T13:06:57Z")
“She falls the fuck apart when she has to shoot from the hip & ad lib.” I’m sure you can cite this. Perhaps with a Faux news link, even? ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2019, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-as-james-mason-in-the-verdict-not-a-good-look/842289/39 "2019-10-26T13:22:56Z")
> [@Annoyed](#): > > I had second-hand humiliation watching her . . . I think you mean _[Fremdschämen](https://www.thelocal.de/20181004/german-word-of-the-day-fremdsch)_. Comes in handy more and more often these days. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2019, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-as-james-mason-in-the-verdict-not-a-good-look/842289/40 "2019-10-26T13:33:07Z")
I’m a lefty, I like AOC, and if I could vote in the United States, it would be for a Democrat. I thought that her line of questioning was smartly done, in terms of the point that she was trying to make. She was clearly trying to find the boundaries of Facebook’s willingness to police and restrict political content, especially advertising, and some of the questions she asked made a good effort at doing that, and at exposing the lack of consistency in Zuckerberg’s answers. If I have a criticism of Ocasio-Cortez over this, it’s with the fundamental basis of her questioning: the idea that social media companies should be responsible for determining and policing the accuracy of political advertisements. Politicians and their proxies have been lying and obfuscating for as long as there have been voters to lie to, and the advent of social media hasn’t changed that. If we have a significant population who are so fucking dumb that they’ll believe anything they read on Facebook, I’m not sure that’s Facebook’s fault, and I’m not sure that Facebook should be compelled to protect our democracy from the credulity or stupidity of some of its members. I think what was most startling to me, in the video clip, was how inept Zuckerberg was at dealing with AOC’s questions. It’s like he walked in there not having a clue of what he was going to be asked. Surely he knew what was coming, and had prepared for it beforehand? He fumbled around like an undergrad who hasn’t done the reading trying to answer a professor’s question in front of the class. This is a guy who’s in charge of a multi-billion dollar company whose whole business is based on communication, and he can’t even handle some basic questions about his company’s practices and policies. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-as-james-mason-in-the-verdict-not-a-good-look/842289.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-as-james-mason-in-the-verdict-not-a-good-look/842289.md?page=3)