# AOC may be out of a job **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 25, 2020, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-may-be-out-of-a-job/848513 "2020-02-25T21:00:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2020, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-may-be-out-of-a-job/848513/141 "2020-03-30T11:57:38Z")
Interesting article on AOC out for Politico: [AOC breaks with Bernie on how to lead the left - POLITICO](https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/30/new-aoc-divides-the-left-150767) IMO this supports my suspicion that she’s an enormously talented politician, and possibly a future president with skills comparable to Obama (just a suspicion and hope right now!). ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2020, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-may-be-out-of-a-job/848513/142 "2020-03-30T14:29:22Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Interesting article on AOC out for Politico: [https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/30/new-aoc-divides-the-left-150767](https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/30/new-aoc-divides-the-left-150767) > > IMO this supports my suspicion that she’s an enormously talented politician, and possibly a future president with skills comparable to Obama (just a suspicion and hope right now!). Whoa, whoa there, dang, let’s not get too gushy. It is indicative that she \*\*\*does \*\*\*learn, and she \*\*\*has \*\*\*potential but Obama comparisons are purely speculative (and anyway it’s not like he was superhuman, either) FWIW Obama was teaching Constitutional Law in his 30s, was first elected to office at state assembly level when he was 36, and burst into national attention in 2004 at 43. So give her a decade and yeah, she \*could \*be there. But we’ll need to see what her performance is like in the meantime. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2020, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-may-be-out-of-a-job/848513/143 "2020-03-30T15:05:08Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I guess the point I am trying to make (for those who aren’t trying to misunderstand what i am saying) is that iiandyiiii’s statements are only opinions. He is presenting his OPINION to rebutt FACTS. His opinions are worthless in the face of facts, or at least they should be. Ah, I get it. His unsupported assertions are worthless opinions, but YOUR unsupported assertions are rock hard facts. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2020, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-may-be-out-of-a-job/848513/144 "2020-03-30T20:03:05Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Interesting article on AOC out for Politico: [https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/30/new-aoc-divides-the-left-150767](https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/30/new-aoc-divides-the-left-150767) > > IMO this supports my suspicion that she’s an enormously talented politician, and possibly a future president with skills comparable to Obama (just a suspicion and hope right now!). I find this highly encouraging. Stepping away from primarying already liberal politicians with even MORE liberal politicians is a good development. If she keeps it up, perhaps she can be a positive force in American politics. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2020, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-may-be-out-of-a-job/848513/145 "2020-03-30T20:04:24Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Ah, I get it. His unsupported assertions are worthless opinions, but YOUR unsupported assertions are rock hard facts. What unsupported assertions? Joe Crowley is by EVERY measure a liberal Democrat. Her initial stance was to replace some liberal Democrats with even MORE liberal Democrats. That is exactly the tactic that the Tea party adopted. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2020, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-may-be-out-of-a-job/848513/146 "2020-03-30T20:05:49Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > No, the tea party ran bad people in bad districts. This is different than running good people in good districts. And her side is sane. The tea party’s professed goal was to run the most conservative politician that could get elected in a red district. The fact that you don’t like their politics doesn’t change the dynamics. > [@](#): > > The difference here is opinion, not fact. You don’t like these people, so you don’t like the idea of more of them winning. I do like these people, so I do want more of them winning. No, it’s fact. You were advocating primarying incumbents if a more radical politician could win in the district. > [@](#): > > This is how the overton window shifts. It’s the only way, in fact, to shift the overton window. That’s ridiculous. > [@](#): > > There is no disagreement on facts here – only on opinion. We don’t need to keep beating this horse – you don’t like AOC and her allies, and I do. I don’t like what she is doing. There is no “opinion” being expressed about what she is doing. It is fact. (Or at least it was) ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2020, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-may-be-out-of-a-job/848513/147 "2020-03-30T20:06:50Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > We’re liable to get closer if we try than if we don’t. At what cost? What do you think trying to get to zero emmissions by 2030 will entail? Especially if it doesn’t include nuclear? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2020, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-may-be-out-of-a-job/848513/148 "2020-03-30T20:22:30Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > No, it’s fact. You were advocating primarying incumbents if a more radical politician could win in the district. Yes, and I still advocate that (if by “more radical” you mean “more progressive”). That’s a fact. It’s your opinion that this is bad for some reason, and it’s my opinion that this is a great thing. The disagreement is on this opinion, not any facts. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2020, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-may-be-out-of-a-job/848513/149 "2020-03-30T20:32:33Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > What unsupported assertions? That far left politics are just as bad as far right politics, purely because they’re both equally distant from your notion of the political center in this country. ---
**Author:** ![chargerrich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chargerrich/32/5399_2.png) [@chargerrich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chargerrich)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2020, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-may-be-out-of-a-job/848513/150 "2020-03-30T20:47:31Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Good riddance. She’s a nutter and we’re better off without her. I have to agree here… I personally despise both extremes. i like going about as far left as Andrew Yang and as far right as - cringe - Mitt Romney (not a fan, but id take 4 years of Mitt just to ensure no more Trump)… ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2020, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-may-be-out-of-a-job/848513/151 "2020-03-30T21:15:24Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Yes, and I still advocate that (if by “more radical” you mean “more progressive”). That’s a fact. It’s your opinion that this is bad for some reason, and it’s my opinion that this is a great thing. The disagreement is on this opinion, not any facts. The difference between where you would like the Democratic party to be and where I would like the Democratic party to be is a matter of opinion. The notion that the Justice Party’s tactics are the same as the Tea Party’s tactics (insofar as they are pushing out moderates in favor of extremists) is not. The notion that the Justice party is any better morally than the tea party is also a matter of opinion. The notion that the Democratic party will win more elections with more progressive candidates than moderate candidates is also an opinion. in fact when you push out a liberal Democrat for a far left Democrat, you are not in fact moving the needle in favor of Democrats in any way. In fact all you may be doing is diverting resources to protect good liberal Democrats to install extremists. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2020, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-may-be-out-of-a-job/848513/152 "2020-03-30T21:16:26Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > That far left politics are just as bad as far right politics, purely because they’re both equally distant from your notion of the political center in this country. Where do I say that? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2020, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-may-be-out-of-a-job/848513/153 "2020-03-30T21:50:14Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > The notion that the Justice Party’s tactics are the same as the Tea Party’s tactics (insofar as they are pushing out moderates in favor of extremists) is not. “Moderates” is opinion. “Extremists” is opinion. There may be similarities in tactics, but I fail to see why that is notable in any way at all. Who cares if they emulate some successful tactics from past groups? If it works, that’s a good thing! If it doesn’t, then it’s bad. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2020, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-may-be-out-of-a-job/848513/154 "2020-03-30T21:50:44Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Where do I say that? It’s directly implied by your unsophisticated comparisons of the groups involved. People and issues aren’t plotted on a single axis. Justice Democrats don’t have a value of -1 and Tea Party +1. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-may-be-out-of-a-job/848513/155 "2020-03-31T18:48:50Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > “Moderates” is opinion. “Extremists” is opinion. There may be similarities in tactics, but I fail to see why that is notable in any way at all. Who cares if they emulate some successful tactics from past groups? If it works, that’s a good thing! If it doesn’t, then it’s bad. If you prefer to call them Mainstream and Progressives, that’[s fine but the fact of the matter is that they are doing it. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-may-be-out-of-a-job/848513/156 "2020-03-31T18:56:15Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > It’s directly implied by your unsophisticated comparisons of the groups involved. People and issues aren’t plotted on a single axis. Justice Democrats don’t have a value of -1 and Tea Party +1. Justice Democrats are undermining the Democrats the same way that the tea party undermined the Republican party. We only have one functional political party right now because of the tea party and we will end up with ZERO functional political parties if the Justice party has its way. Bernies spectacularly crashing campaign is pretty good evidence that most Democrats (never mind most Americans) don’t really think that highly of the Extremist agenda. Fortunately the poster child for the Justice party (AOC) is stepping back from the edge of political idiocy. Hopefully she can lead the rest of her generation back too. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-may-be-out-of-a-job/848513/157 "2020-03-31T19:03:01Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > If you prefer to call them Mainstream and Progressives, that’[s fine but the fact of the matter is that they are doing it. They’re helping the Democratic party. That’s my opinion. Your opinion differs. That’s okay. There’s no disagreement on any facts. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-may-be-out-of-a-job/848513/158 "2020-03-31T19:05:41Z")
Just as an example – the Tea Party lost some races because of monumentally stupid decisions (that “I’m not a witch” candidate, for example). They ran idiots. I’ve seen nothing to suggest that AOC or any other Justice Democrat is advocating or pushing idiots to run for office, especially in competitive races. If they’re emulating any part of the Tea Party, _it’s the effective stuff the TP did for their agenda_, not the stuff they did that hurt their party. Being run by smart people is an utterly massive difference from the Tea Party, which was/is largely run by idiots. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-may-be-out-of-a-job/848513/159 "2020-03-31T19:55:54Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Just as an example – the Tea Party lost some races because of monumentally stupid decisions (that “I’m not a witch” candidate, for example). They ran idiots. I’ve seen nothing to suggest that AOC or any other Justice Democrat is advocating or pushing idiots to run for office, especially in competitive races. If they’re emulating any part of the Tea Party, _it’s the effective stuff the TP did for their agenda_, not the stuff they did that hurt their party. > > Being run by smart people is an utterly massive difference from the Tea Party, which was/is largely run by idiots. What he is saying is an absolute fact, shown easily by imagining a Venn Diagram. If all Democrats are at 0, the further out you get from center, you have less Democrats (and public opinion) and what he said was the further you get away from center (or installing a more extreme version in lieu of a seat you already had (as a moderate version), you lose potential votes who would otherwise vote D. And the only similarities with the Tea Party is that exact scenario, except the Tea Party folks didn’t push out any moderate Republicans to gain the seats. (That last part I can’t say is a fact as I don’t know all of them) That isn’t an opinion, it is undisputable fact. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-may-be-out-of-a-job/848513/160 "2020-03-31T20:06:20Z")
Your imagined Venn diagram is an indisputable fact. That’s what you just said. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-may-be-out-of-a-job/848513.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-may-be-out-of-a-job/848513.md?page=9)