# AOC may be out of a job **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 25, 2020, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-may-be-out-of-a-job/848513 "2020-02-25T21:00:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-may-be-out-of-a-job/848513/161 "2020-03-31T20:25:29Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > What he is saying is an absolute fact, shown easily by imagining a Venn Diagram. If all Democrats are at 0, the further out you get from center, you have less Democrats (and public opinion) and what he said was the further you get away from center (or installing a more extreme version in lieu of a seat you already had (as a moderate version), you lose potential votes who would otherwise vote D. > > And the only similarities with the Tea Party is that exact scenario, except the Tea Party folks didn’t push out any moderate Republicans to gain the seats. (That last part I can’t say is a fact as I don’t know all of them) > > That isn’t an opinion, it is undisputable fact. Politics isn’t nearly this simple. This is your opinion, but it’s not a fact. And IIRC, the tea party did in fact push out numerous Republicans – whether or not they’re “moderate” will depend on who’s asking. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2020, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-may-be-out-of-a-job/848513/162 "2020-04-01T13:51:45Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Where do I say that? It’s been the consistent theme of everything you’ve written in this thread. Here’s you saying it again a few hours after you asked this: > [@](#): > > Justice Democrats are undermining the Democrats the same way that the tea party undermined the Republican party. We only have one functional political party right now because of the tea party and we will end up with ZERO functional political parties if the Justice party has its way. Bernies spectacularly crashing campaign is pretty good evidence that most Democrats (never mind most Americans) don’t really think that highly of the Extremist agenda. > > Fortunately the poster child for the Justice party (AOC) is stepping back from the edge of political idiocy. Hopefully she can lead the rest of her generation back too. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2020, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-may-be-out-of-a-job/848513/163 "2020-04-01T13:55:21Z")
Also, the Tea Party was much more a symptom of awfulness within the GOP than a cause. Lots of Republicans are awful and stupid, and thus the Tea Party happened. If it hadn’t been the Tea Party, then those most-awful and stupidest among the Republicans would have made the party more awful and more stupid in some other way. Louie Gohmert and Steve King were around for years before the Tea Party started. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2020, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-may-be-out-of-a-job/848513/164 "2020-04-01T21:07:11Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Just as an example – the Tea Party lost some races because of monumentally stupid decisions (that “I’m not a witch” candidate, for example). They ran idiots. I’ve seen nothing to suggest that AOC or any other Justice Democrat is advocating or pushing idiots to run for office, especially in competitive races. If they’re emulating any part of the Tea Party, _it’s the effective stuff the TP did for their agenda_, not the stuff they did that hurt their party. Whether or not they hurt the Republican party is also a matter of opinion based on your definition of opinion. Plenty of folks prefer this batshit crazy version of the Republican party. What they did (and what the Justice Democrats want to do) is turn the party into a more extreme version of itself. AOC is apparently edging towards sanity, the Justice Democrats not so much. > [@](#): > > Being run by smart people is an utterly massive difference from the Tea Party, which was/is largely run by idiots. So all the Justice Democrat successes were the result of smart people being smart and all the tea party success was just dumb luck? That sounds like opinion, unfounded opinion. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2020, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-may-be-out-of-a-job/848513/165 "2020-04-01T21:08:26Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Whether or not they hurt the Republican party is also a matter of opinion based on your definition of opinion. Plenty of folks prefer this batshit crazy version of the Republican party. What they did (and what the Justice Democrats want to do) is turn the party into a more extreme version of itself. > > AOC is apparently edging towards sanity, the Justice Democrats not so much. > > So all the Justice Democrat successes were the result of smart people being smart and all the tea party success was just dumb luck? > > That sounds like opinion, unfounded opinion. Yes! Our disagreement is entirely one of opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2020, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-may-be-out-of-a-job/848513/166 "2020-04-01T21:09:52Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > It’s been the consistent theme of everything you’ve written in this thread. Here’s you saying it again a few hours after you asked this: The Justice democrats can lead to a disfunctional party and still not be anywhere close to being as bad as the tea party. Just because they both meet the standard of stupid and shitty doesn’t mean they are equally stupid and shitty. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2020, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-may-be-out-of-a-job/848513/167 "2020-04-01T21:11:13Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Also, the Tea Party was much more a symptom of awfulness within the GOP than a cause. Lots of Republicans are awful and stupid, and thus the Tea Party happened. If it hadn’t been the Tea Party, then those most-awful and stupidest among the Republicans would have made the party more awful and more stupid in some other way. Louie Gohmert and Steve King were around for years before the Tea Party started. And of course there is no awfulness in the Democratic party? Every instance of awfulness in the Democratic party is an aberration and every instance of awfulness in the Republican party is representative? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2020, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-may-be-out-of-a-job/848513/168 "2020-04-01T21:12:28Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > And of course there is no awfulness in the Democratic party? I have not asserted this. > [@](#): > > Every instance of awfulness in the Democratic party is an aberration and every instance of awfulness in the Republican party is representative? Nor have I asserted this. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2020, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-may-be-out-of-a-job/848513/169 "2020-04-01T21:13:41Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Yes! Our disagreement is entirely one of opinion. Not entirely. But at this point you have already conceded that the justice democrats are the tea party of the left except their agenda is more palatable to you than the tea party was so all that is left is our difference in opinion about whether pushing the Democratic party to where the Justice Democrats would like to take them is a good idea. You like them and i think they’re batshit crazy. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2020, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-may-be-out-of-a-job/848513/170 "2020-04-01T21:19:30Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Not entirely. > > But at this point you have already conceded that the justice democrats are the tea party of the left No I haven’t – I don’t believe they’re any more “the tea party of the left” than the yellow dogs, blue dogs, progressives, or any other group. Some overlap in some political tactics is indicative of nothing more than that nothing in politics is really new – all of this has been done before, in some form of other. Political groups often use similar tactics. This is not at all notable or significant. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-may-be-out-of-a-job/848513/171 "2020-04-04T17:44:50Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > No I haven’t – I don’t believe they’re any more “the tea party of the left” than the yellow dogs, blue dogs, progressives, or any other group. Some overlap in some political tactics is indicative of nothing more than that nothing in politics is really new – all of this has been done before, in some form of other. Political groups often use similar tactics. This is not at all notable or significant. None of those others advocated primarying incumbent Democrats (diverting resources that could be better spent elsewhere to fight off an insurgency of left wing lunatics). The Justice Democrats are not trying to nudge the Democratic party. They are trying to hijack it. They basically admit as much with their “we’re a party within a party” schtick. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2020, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-may-be-out-of-a-job/848513/172 "2020-04-04T17:46:06Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > They are trying to hijack it. What a joke! They haven’t cost the party a single seat. Come back to me when they’ve actually done something bad, rather than the good they’ve done by challenging shitty Democrats in safe blue seats (and beating at least one – Lipinski). ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2020, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-may-be-out-of-a-job/848513/173 "2020-04-05T23:49:30Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > What a joke! They haven’t cost the party a single seat. Come back to me when they’ve actually done something bad, rather than the good they’ve done by challenging shitty Democrats in safe blue seats (and beating at least one – Lipinski). Why was Crowley a “shitty” Democrat? I mean AOC was a Justice Democrat candidate, right? Or does that not count because you say it doesn’t? You are basically saying that the party now has to spend resources defending Democrats in safe blue seats or see them replaced with Justice Democrats. Ask Pelosi how much of a fucking pain in the ass they were as she fought a two front was against Trump on the right and the Justice Democrats on the left. You don’t have to cost Democrats a single seat to be hijackers. We will see how the Justice Democrats crowd behave during the general election. Lets see if they’re Democrats or just socialist parasites trying to hijack the Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2020, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-may-be-out-of-a-job/848513/174 "2020-04-06T00:06:39Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Why was Crowley a “shitty” Democrat? > > I mean AOC was a Justice Democrat candidate, right? Okay, shitty Democrats plus an upgrade on an okay Democrat. An improvement there - certainly no harm to the party. The party is stronger with AOC then without her. > [@](#): > > You are basically saying that the party now has to spend resources defending Democrats in safe blue seats or see them replaced with Justice Democrats. Ask Pelosi how much of a fucking pain in the ass they were as she fought a two front was against Trump on the right and the Justice Democrats on the left. > > You don’t have to cost Democrats a single seat to be hijackers. We will see how the Justice Democrats crowd behave during the general election. Lets see if they’re Democrats or just socialist parasites trying to hijack the Democrats. They haven’t done any of these scary things you’re worried about. No seats have been lost. This is just baseless fear. You’ve offered nothing but your opinion that you don’t like AOC and her allies. That’s fine, but it’s just your opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2020, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-may-be-out-of-a-job/848513/175 "2020-04-06T05:38:52Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Okay, shitty Democrats plus an upgrade on an okay Democrat. An improvement there - certainly no harm to the party. The party is stronger with AOC then without her. At this point yes, we are better off with her than without her. She has backed off from the most destructive elements of the Justice Democrat platform (primarying mainstream democrats to install left wingers) and sure there is plenty of room for left wingers, some districts are famous for electing radical lefties on a regular basis. > [@](#): > > They haven’t done any of these scary things you’re worried about. No seats have been lost. Forcing primary battles are part of the Justice Democrat platform. Seats don’t have to be lost to hurt the Democratic party. If you for resources to be spent fighting a war against the left as well as the right, then it is bad for Democrats. > [@](#): > > This is just baseless fear. You’ve offered nothing but your opinion that you don’t like AOC and her allies. That’s fine, but it’s just your opinion. No it’s not just opinion, it is the Justice democrat platform. I no longer object to AOC. She seems to be maturing quickly enough to be taken seriously. I don’t agree with her on everything but I probably agree with her more than I agree with most Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2020, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-may-be-out-of-a-job/848513/176 "2020-04-06T08:16:38Z")
> [@RioRico](#): > > - Benito Mussolini defined his invention “fascism” as corporate control of government. You don’t have a single idea what Mussolini meant by “corporations” in that context. [http://www.sjsu.edu/faculty/watkins/corporatism.htm](http://www.sjsu.edu/faculty/watkins/corporatism.htm) > [@](#): > > The basic idea of corporatism is that the society and economy of a country should be organized into major interest groups (sometimes called corporations) and representatives of those interest groups settle any problems through negotiation and joint agreement. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2020, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-may-be-out-of-a-job/848513/177 "2020-04-06T09:51:20Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > At this point yes, we are better off with her than without her. She has backed off from the most destructive elements of the Justice Democrat platform (primarying mainstream democrats to install left wingers) and sure there is plenty of room for left wingers, some districts are famous for electing radical lefties on a regular basis. > > Forcing primary battles are part of the Justice Democrat platform. Seats don’t have to be lost to hurt the Democratic party. If you for resources to be spent fighting a war against the left as well as the right, then it is bad for Democrats. > > No it’s not just opinion, it is the Justice democrat platform. > > I no longer object to AOC. She seems to be maturing quickly enough to be taken seriously. I don’t agree with her on everything but I probably agree with her more than I agree with most Republicans. Your hypothesis is that the Justice Democrats will hurt the party by diverting resources. But that’s just a hypothesis. Maybe they’ll find better fundraisers, like AOC, who blow away the dull Democrats they replace. Maybe the enthusiasm they inspire will result in better turnout. We don’t know. But all you’ve offered is a hypothesis, and I don’t buy it. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2020, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-may-be-out-of-a-job/848513/178 "2020-04-06T15:47:15Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Your hypothesis is that the Justice Democrats will hurt the party by diverting resources. But that’s just a hypothesis. Maybe they’ll find better fundraisers, like AOC, who blow away the dull Democrats they replace. Now who is hypothesizing? You dismiss the 90% event in favor of the 10% event. Sure there might be another AOC waiting in the wings but any future AOC type would be cannibalizing AOC’s fundraising if they had really good fundraising. Her fundraising is as much a result of Trump’s repugnance as it is her appeal. > [@](#): > > Maybe the enthusiasm they inspire will result in better turnout. We don’t know. But all you’ve offered is a hypothesis, and I don’t buy it. You don’t have to buy it. Facts don’t stop being facts because you choose not to believe them. The Justice Democrats platform includes ousting mainstream Democrats in districts where a more progressive Democrat can be nominated with their help. That means that moderates have to rally around other mainstream Democrats to prevent the party from being hijacked by wingnuts. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2020, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-may-be-out-of-a-job/848513/179 "2020-04-06T16:05:41Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Now who is hypothesizing? You dismiss the 90% event in favor of the 10% event. I make no prediction. I like AOC and her allies, and hope they continue to do well in the party. I hope the party becomes more like them. You disagree. But you’ve failed to convince me that you’re right and I’m wrong, and for some reason you’re having trouble accepting that this is just a disagreement in our opinion of these politicians. > [@](#): > > You don’t have to buy it. Facts don’t stop being facts because you choose not to believe them. You haven’t offered a single fact that conflicts with my support for AOC and her allies. > [@](#): > > The Justice Democrats platform includes ousting mainstream Democrats in districts where a more progressive Democrat can be nominated with their help. That means that moderates have to rally around other mainstream Democrats to prevent the party from being hijacked by wingnuts. The second sentence doesn’t follow the first – “wingnuts” is certainly not a factual assertion. That’s your opinion, and you’ve failed to convince that it’s anything more than just an opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2020, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-may-be-out-of-a-job/848513/180 "2020-04-07T15:03:16Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I make no prediction. I like AOC and her allies, and hope they continue to do well in the party. I hope the party becomes more like them. You disagree. But you’ve failed to convince me that you’re right and I’m wrong, and for some reason you’re having trouble accepting that this is just a disagreement in our opinion of these politicians. We can disagree about politicians. We should not disagree about facts. FACT: The Justice Democrats targetted a very progressive/liberal congressman only to replace him with an even MORE liberal congressman. FACT The Justice Democrats intend to keep doing this, except now the Mainstream Democrats have to take them seriously and this will cause resources to be diverted to protect those seats from the socialist insurgents. FACT: This will not lead to deep blue seats being turned red but the diversion of resources as the mainstream democrats fight a war on two fronts will hamper their ability to fund battles in swing districts. If there is an actual bad politician somewhere then sure go ahead and primary him or her. We should be doing that already. But when you primary a good Democrat like Joe Crowley and then crow about it, that says something about you. > [@](#): > > You haven’t offered a single fact that conflicts with my support for AOC and her allies. I’ve been saying the above three things for a while now. You seem to think that facts are only opinions if those facts are inconvenient. > [@](#): > > The second sentence doesn’t follow the first – “wingnuts” is certainly not a factual assertion. That’s your opinion, and you’ve failed to convince that it’s anything more than just an opinion. Yes it does if the mainstream Democrats don’t want their party to be hijacked by wingnuts (wingnuts is my characterization, called them socialists if you like). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-may-be-out-of-a-job/848513.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aoc-may-be-out-of-a-job/848513.md?page=10)