# AOC's "Green New Deal" pipe dream **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 8, 2019, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aocs-green-new-deal-pipe-dream/829160 "2019-02-08T08:48:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aocs-green-new-deal-pipe-dream/829160/21 "2019-02-08T16:31:44Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Mostly because her name is like 10-11 syllables if you say all of it out loud; nobody’s got time for that. > > I suspect if she went by “Alex Ocasio”, that would be what she’s called, but instead, we get the Latin-style father’s surname and mother’s surname combination, both of which have several syllables as well as a rather multisyllabic first name. Slight hijack: didn’t she go by “Sandy” at one point? ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aocs-green-new-deal-pipe-dream/829160/22 "2019-02-08T16:41:06Z")
> [@CaptMurdock](#): > > Slight hijack: didn’t she go by “Sandy” at one point? [Looks like it](https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1&q=Sandy+aoc&oq=Sandy+aoc&aqs=heirloom-srp..0l5). ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aocs-green-new-deal-pipe-dream/829160/23 "2019-02-08T16:45:38Z")
And I see from that search that [AOC is her tweety thing](https://mobile.twitter.com/AOC), too. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aocs-green-new-deal-pipe-dream/829160/24 "2019-02-08T16:45:56Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Yes, it is [clueless](https://www.npr.org/2019/02/07/691997301/rep-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-releases-green-new-deal-outline) [crackpottery](https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1093644987256909824.html) that rivals Trump’s “land a man on Mars by next Tuesday” proposal in it’s disconnect from reality. Let’s replace every building in the country! And build new railroads everywhere. But–you know–do it carbon-neuturally! Get rid of all fossil fuels and also cows! Yes, let’s continue letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. We can’t stop all murders, so let’s stop trying. We won’t be able to stop poverty, so let’s not help them at all. We can’t replace building or be immediately carbon-neutral, so let’s not even try. Instead of going through the dozens of recommendations and ideas in the plan and debating their worth, cost, and feasibility, let’s just make fun of her for actually trying to make a change. ---
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bruce\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bruce_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aocs-green-new-deal-pipe-dream/829160/25 "2019-02-08T16:53:18Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Apparently the OP thinks that Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez already has the status of FDR, JFK, or LBJ to be immediately recognizable by initials. (This is a knock against the OP, not Rep. Ocasio-Cortez.) She referred to as AOC in nearly every medium I’ve seen her mentioned. The OP doesn’t live under a rock, I don’t how that counts as a knock against him. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aocs-green-new-deal-pipe-dream/829160/26 "2019-02-08T16:56:42Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Yes, let’s continue letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. We can’t stop all murders, so let’s stop trying. We won’t be able to stop poverty, so let’s not help them at all. We can’t replace building or be immediately carbon-neutral, so let’s not even try. Instead of going through the dozens of recommendations and ideas in the plan and debating their worth, cost, and feasibility, let’s just make fun of her for actually trying to make a change. Well, that’s easier, right? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aocs-green-new-deal-pipe-dream/829160/27 "2019-02-08T17:03:06Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > :rolleyes: A number of people here are so weird about podcasts. I never see this anywhere else. Do you also refuse to listen to NPR, to watch PBS Newshour segments, or YouTube videos? How is this attitude any different from some old git 20 years ago sitting in his armchair, newspaper in hand, muttering “I’m not going to look at a fucking Internet message board”? :dubious: Seriously, it’s 2019: get with the times. I love podcasts. A summary of what you’re asking people to read would be a lot less lazy on your part. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aocs-green-new-deal-pipe-dream/829160/28 "2019-02-08T17:03:26Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > It’s idiotic to think that what you see is what everyone sees. No, she’s not called that “everywhere.” The abbreviation is meaningless where I am, and in many other parts of “everywhere.” Your thinking that the US is “everywhere” is just blinkered. Would you settle for, “She’s called AOC everywhere on this very message board?” [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=870398&highlight=AOC](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=870398&highlight=AOC) [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=816281&page=2&highlight=AOC](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=816281&page=2&highlight=AOC) [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=866591&page=16&highlight=AOC](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=866591&page=16&highlight=AOC) [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=869022&highlight=AOC](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=869022&highlight=AOC) [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=868660&highlight=AOC](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=868660&highlight=AOC) [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=868346&highlight=AOC](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=868346&highlight=AOC) [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=867793&highlight=AOC&page=2](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=867793&highlight=AOC&page=2) [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=865958&highlight=AOC](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=865958&highlight=AOC) [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=865280&highlight=AOC](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=865280&highlight=AOC) [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=857589&highlight=AOC&page=8](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=857589&highlight=AOC&page=8) And so on, and so on. I’m not saying you’re wrong to not know of the term AOC, but personally I can’t swing a dead cat on this board without hitting the initials. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aocs-green-new-deal-pipe-dream/829160/29 "2019-02-08T17:12:51Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Yes, let’s continue letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. This isn’t the perfect being the enemy of the good–this is the remotely possible being the enemy of the harebrained. “The way to save the environment is massive amounts of new construction, and also universal unions, free healthcare, and lifetime support for those ‘[unwilling to work](https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/07/ocasio-cortezs-green-new-deal-offers-economic-security-for-those-unwilling-to-work.html).’” ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aocs-green-new-deal-pipe-dream/829160/30 "2019-02-08T17:26:01Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > :rolleyes: A number of people here are so weird about podcasts. I never see this anywhere else. Do you also refuse to listen to NPR, to watch PBS Newshour segments, or YouTube videos? How is this attitude any different from some old git 20 years ago sitting in his armchair, newspaper in hand, muttering “I’m not going to look at a fucking Internet message board”? :dubious: Seriously, it’s 2019: get with the times. Fuck you, dipshit. I can read like 1000x faster than most people speak. Fuck you. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aocs-green-new-deal-pipe-dream/829160/31 "2019-02-08T17:35:10Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > This isn’t the perfect being the enemy of the good–this is the remotely possible being the enemy of the harebrained. “The way to save the environment is massive amounts of new construction, and also universal unions, free healthcare, and lifetime support for those ‘[unwilling to work](https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/07/ocasio-cortezs-green-new-deal-offers-economic-security-for-those-unwilling-to-work.html).’” Good to know that you oppose universal health care coverage that would include stay-at-home moms. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aocs-green-new-deal-pipe-dream/829160/32 "2019-02-08T18:24:27Z")
This Green New Deal is pretty much exactly what we would have to do to prevent the damage that’s coming due to global warming – according to the latest studies we need to cut emissions to half of 2010 levels in the next 10 years to stop it. That’s definitely possible. In fact, it’s EASY - invest heavily in nuclear energy in the short term while transitioning to renewable power. It’s also very expensive and politically unfeasible, so the ecology of Earth is beyond screwed. It’s not all doom and gloom though. Global warming won’t kill us, or the planet. It WILL cause trillions of dollars in damage over the next century, take many human lives, and destroy the ecosystems we know and love. Apparently, none of that is worth a damn to the people who make decisions in this country, but it is what it is. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aocs-green-new-deal-pipe-dream/829160/33 "2019-02-08T18:37:14Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > This isn’t the perfect being the enemy of the good–this is the remotely possible being the enemy of the harebrained. “The way to save the environment is massive amounts of new construction, and also universal unions, free healthcare, and lifetime support for those ‘[unwilling to work](https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/07/ocasio-cortezs-green-new-deal-offers-economic-security-for-those-unwilling-to-work.html).’” You left off the “unable”. Frankly, I see nothing that’s not “remotely possible” except in the minds of Real Murkins ™ who equate driving anything other than their SUV/monster-pickup/minitank/penis substitute with Gawdless Communism. Is it a little pie-in-the-sky? Maybe. What a pity that the country that built the Panama Canal, put men on the Moon and eliminated smallpox has lost the ability to Dream Big. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aocs-green-new-deal-pipe-dream/829160/34 "2019-02-08T18:45:16Z")
wrong forum ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aocs-green-new-deal-pipe-dream/829160/35 "2019-02-08T20:19:40Z")
> [@Bruce\_Wayne](#): > > She referred to as AOC in nearly every medium I’ve seen her mentioned. The OP doesn’t live under a rock, I don’t how that counts as a knock against him. Thank you!! The “get off my lawn” mojo is getting REALLY thick around here. “Dadgum podcasts! ‘AOC’, who the hell is that?” Srsly, people? :smack: To be into politics in 2019 but be anti-podcast and have no idea what “AOC” means…that’s not me who comes across looking incredibly out of touch. It’s not a good look for this board, I promise you—and it doesn’t augur well for the future health and vitality of this forum, TBH. > [@muldoonthief](#): > > Most of us aren’t Slackers, and therefore don’t have tons of free time to listen to some podcast I don’t shrink from my slacker identity (obviously). But this specific critique is wrongheaded, and frankly clueless. The whole reason podcasts have become such a “thing” is not that people sit down on their couches and listen. Maybe some people do, but I and every podcast listener I know listens to them while working out, driving, cooking, etc. So it’s just the opposite of what you’re imputing to me here. In fact, if I were fabulously wealthy and could REALLY be as lazy as I wanted to because I could hire people to do all drudgery for me, I’d listen to podcasts a lot less—as I’d be more tempted to spend the time reading, posting, watching TV, playing tennis at the indoor club I’d be able to afford to join, etc. And BTW, I DID briefly summarize what I agreed with in Pesca’s rant. That’s why the OP as some other sentences, which all you text-lovers can presumably parse, beyond “here’s a podcast, check it out”. ETA: The segment of the podcast I pointed to (a daily editorial feature Pesca calls “The Spiel”) is less than fifteen minutes in length. If you listen at 1.5x like I do, it’s less than ten. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aocs-green-new-deal-pipe-dream/829160/36 "2019-02-08T21:01:57Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Thank you!! The “get off my lawn” mojo is getting REALLY thick around here. “Dadgum podcasts! ‘AOC’, who the hell is that?” Srsly, people? :smack: > > To be into politics in 2019 but be anti-podcast and have no idea what “AOC” means…that’s not me who comes across looking incredibly out of touch. It’s not a good look for this board, I promise you—and it doesn’t augur well for the future health and vitality of this forum, TBH. > > I don’t shrink from my slacker identity (obviously). But this specific critique is wrongheaded, and frankly clueless. The whole reason podcasts have become such a “thing” is not that people sit down on their couches and listen. Maybe some people do, but I and every podcast listener I know listens to them while working out, driving, cooking, etc. So it’s just the opposite of what you’re imputing to me here. In fact, if I were fabulously wealthy and could REALLY be as lazy as I wanted to because I could hire people to do all drudgery for me, I’d listen to podcasts a lot less—as I’d be more tempted to spend the time reading, posting, watching TV, playing tennis at the indoor club I’d be able to afford to join, etc. > > And BTW, I DID briefly summarize what I agreed with in Pesca’s rant. That’s why the OP as some other sentences, which all you text-lovers can presumably parse, beyond “here’s a podcast, check it out”. > > ETA: The segment of the podcast I pointed to (a daily editorial feature Pesca calls “The Spiel”) is less than fifteen minutes in length. If you listen at 1.5x like I do, it’s less than ten. Would you be more satisfied if debates on this message board consisted entirely of dueling memes? ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aocs-green-new-deal-pipe-dream/829160/37 "2019-02-08T21:04:46Z")
I just don’t like the word ‘podcast’. Very tinny. And my internet is shit. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aocs-green-new-deal-pipe-dream/829160/38 "2019-02-08T21:25:24Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > The whole reason podcasts have become such a “thing” is not that people sit down on their couches and listen. Maybe some people do, but I and every podcast listener I know listens to them while working out, driving, cooking, etc. Sure, nobody’s saying that podcasts are a bad thing. We probably all enjoy listening to and learning from them as a convenient form of “infotainment” or “edutainment”. And a properly researched podcast can contain statements that are just as reliable and informative as those in a properly researched print article. But here’s the thing, which has been explained to you before but which you seem for some reason incapable of understanding: **Podcasts are an extremely inefficient way of presenting information and opinions _as a basis for debate_**. A spoken conversational dialogue, or even a monologue, is nowhere near as clear and concise as a few paragraphs of well-written exposition. A stream of recorded speech with no transcript or timestamps is far less convenient to discuss and quote than a digital version of a formatted written document with a visually apparent topical structure. An oral “op-ed” or “sermon” exposition is far less useful than an electronic written document with citations and links to other written sources that **also** have all the advantages of immediate skimmability, visually apparent topical structure, citations and links, and so forth. > [@SlackerInc](#): > > And BTW, I DID briefly summarize what I agreed with in Pesca’s rant. Your summary is minimal and not particularly helpful to anyone who really wants to understand the content of what Pesca is saying. Unfortunately, you can’t be more clear or more specific because you don’t really remember the details of what you heard, and you have no idea how they connect to specific sources presenting other points of view. Your summary basically amounts to _“Here’s the gist of something somebody was saying about something somebody else was saying. If you want to have any clearer or more detailed idea of what I’m talking about, you have to spend fifteen minutes listening to a speaker droning on about it, or nearly ten minutes listening to a speaker squeaking like a chipmunk about it at 1.5x. Then we can argue about the stuff we think we remember the speaker said.”_ For literate people with an internet-ful of published detailed research and opinion articles right at their fingertips, and almost instantly surveyable via their eyes, what you propose is an exasperatingly fuzzy and half-assed way to consider and debate complex topics of the day. Why should we have to play your low-level, limited-input, kiddie version of the game _Arguing About Stuff_ when we have nearly unlimited access to the highest level of gameplay and, in most cases, the experience and ability to use even the most advanced tools effectively? TL;DR: The problem, **SlackerInc** , is not that there’s anything wrong with podcasts in themselves. The problem is that you are so consistently shit at establishing a textual basis for debate that’s appropriate for intelligent, literate, debate-experienced grownups. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aocs-green-new-deal-pipe-dream/829160/39 "2019-02-08T22:13:20Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > I just don’t like the word ‘podcast’. Very tinny. > > And my internet is shit. Blog is a properly woody word. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aocs-green-new-deal-pipe-dream/829160/40 "2019-02-08T22:13:26Z")
Kimstu, I tried to educate you on this before, but it apparently didn’t stick: speeding up podcasts does NOT create a “chipmunk” effect. The technology is sophisticated enough to use pitch control. The rest of your “argument” is just stupid. If it were actually applied, we could not talk about the SOTU, political debates, or for that matter movies or TV shows. (I await your interjecting yourself into threads about those things with complaints that they are not in text form, that you don’t have time to listen/watch them, etc., as opposed to reading the OP, deciding you aren’t going to take time to consume the media content in question, and moving on to some other thread. :dubious:) And in this case it’s just ten or fifteen minutes of audio! So it’s shorter than any of those other things, and can–again–be consumed while busy doing other things. > [@Ravenman](#): > > Would you be more satisfied if debates on this message board consisted entirely of dueling memes? :rolleyes: Okay, Grandpa. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aocs-green-new-deal-pipe-dream/829160.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aocs-green-new-deal-pipe-dream/829160.md?page=3)