# Apart from thermoses, are there any other consumer products that use vacuum for insulation? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 14, 2020, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apart-from-thermoses-are-there-any-other-consumer-products-that-use-vacuum-for-insulation/846395 "2020-01-14T10:08:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![And\_his\_buzzer\_goes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/and_his_buzzer_goes/32/377_2.png) [@And\_his\_buzzer\_goes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/And_his_buzzer_goes)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apart-from-thermoses-are-there-any-other-consumer-products-that-use-vacuum-for-insulation/846395/21 "2020-01-14T16:03:40Z")
There are some [insulation](https://www.recticelinsulation.com/en-gb/vacuum-insulation-panels)panels that claim to use vacuum technology. > [@](#): > > The envelope of the vacuum insulation panel must not be damaged by drilling, milling or nailing. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apart-from-thermoses-are-there-any-other-consumer-products-that-use-vacuum-for-insulation/846395/22 "2020-01-14T16:31:56Z")
Here is _Consumer Reports_ [take](https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2008/10/q-a-is-it-a-worth-the-extra-cost-to-buy-windows-filled-with-argon-gas/index.htm) on argon in double pane windows. In short, adds about .5 R value but it’ll take a long while to pay back the extra cost. I remember an old _This Old House_ where the gas mix in the windows was special so that the up/down motion due to heating and cooling was minimized. This would require some gas that is not at all close to ideal which excludes argon and such. Color me skeptical. ---
**Author:** ![jjakucyk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3d9bf3/32.png) [@jjakucyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjakucyk)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apart-from-thermoses-are-there-any-other-consumer-products-that-use-vacuum-for-insulation/846395/23 "2020-01-14T16:59:19Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Here is _Consumer Reports_ [take](https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2008/10/q-a-is-it-a-worth-the-extra-cost-to-buy-windows-filled-with-argon-gas/index.htm) on argon in double pane windows. In short, adds about .5 R value but it’ll take a long while to pay back the extra cost. Since most windows have an R-Value of around 3, adding R-0.5 is pretty significant. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apart-from-thermoses-are-there-any-other-consumer-products-that-use-vacuum-for-insulation/846395/24 "2020-01-14T17:35:35Z")
> [@jjakucyk](#): > > Since most windows have an R-Value of around 3, adding R-0.5 is pretty significant. The vacuum-insulated windows at the link in my post (#6) claim to be R-10. > [@www.buildinggreen.com](#): > > The performance of Guardian’s VIG glazing is indeed very good. Scott Thomsen, vice president and chief technology officer at Guardian Industries, told me that their VIG will achieve at least R-10 (center-of-glass) insulation, with potential for R-12. That’s getting up there with the values for triple-pane windows. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apart-from-thermoses-are-there-any-other-consumer-products-that-use-vacuum-for-insulation/846395/25 "2020-01-14T17:44:14Z")
Any electronics that uses valves will have a vacuum, things such as valve amps, some guitar pre-amps will have a valve stage to generate the type of overdrive that you can’t quite get any other way ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apart-from-thermoses-are-there-any-other-consumer-products-that-use-vacuum-for-insulation/846395/26 "2020-01-14T18:15:06Z")
I’m pretty sure that those Yeti/RTIC mugs are vacuum-insulated. ---
**Author:** ![EdelweissPirate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8491ac/32.png) [@EdelweissPirate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EdelweissPirate)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apart-from-thermoses-are-there-any-other-consumer-products-that-use-vacuum-for-insulation/846395/27 "2020-01-14T18:16:42Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Here is _Consumer Reports_ [take](https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2008/10/q-a-is-it-a-worth-the-extra-cost-to-buy-windows-filled-with-argon-gas/index.htm) on argon in double pane windows. In short, adds about .5 R value but it’ll take a long while to pay back the extra cost. > > I remember an old _This Old House_ where the gas mix in the windows was special so that the up/down motion due to heating and cooling was minimized. This would require some gas that is not at all close to ideal which excludes argon and such. Color me skeptical. Your linked article says that most window manufacturers now use argon by default, so there’s no extra cost to pay back. And what do you mean when you describe a gas as “not at all close to ideal?” ---
**Author:** ![jjakucyk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3d9bf3/32.png) [@jjakucyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjakucyk)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apart-from-thermoses-are-there-any-other-consumer-products-that-use-vacuum-for-insulation/846395/28 "2020-01-14T18:49:33Z")
> [@casdave](#): > > Any electronics that uses valves will have a vacuum, things such as valve amps, some guitar pre-amps will have a valve stage to generate the type of overdrive that you can’t quite get any other way Yes, and regular incandescent light bulbs are in a vacuum too, but it’s not to increase thermal performance/insulation. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apart-from-thermoses-are-there-any-other-consumer-products-that-use-vacuum-for-insulation/846395/29 "2020-01-14T19:25:26Z")
> [@jjakucyk](#): > > Yes, and regular incandescent light bulbs are in a vacuum too, but it’s not to increase thermal performance/insulation. Isn’t thermal insulation exactly why they vacuum incandescent light bulbs (when they don’t fill them with Argon)? It’s to minimize loss of energy to heat so more of it goes to light. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apart-from-thermoses-are-there-any-other-consumer-products-that-use-vacuum-for-insulation/846395/30 "2020-01-14T19:36:31Z")
> [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](#): > > Isn’t thermal insulation exactly why they vacuum incandescent light bulbs (when they don’t fill them with Argon)? It’s to minimize loss of energy to heat so more of it goes to light. They do fill them with argon or other gas such as Xenon. Vacuum incandescents were the original Edison bulbs, the vacuum and, later the noble gases, were/are there to prevent the filament from burning up (and away) from any oxidizing gases. ---
**Author:** ![jjakucyk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3d9bf3/32.png) [@jjakucyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjakucyk)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apart-from-thermoses-are-there-any-other-consumer-products-that-use-vacuum-for-insulation/846395/31 "2020-01-14T19:43:04Z")
> [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](#): > > Isn’t thermal insulation exactly why they vacuum incandescent light bulbs (when they don’t fill them with Argon)? It’s to minimize loss of energy to heat so more of it goes to light. Apparently using a vacuum isn’t particularly common in modern bulbs since it doesn’t retard evaporation of tungsten filaments. That was more the case with older carbon filament bulbs where oxygen could react with the filament and cause it to burn out very quickly. In modern incandescent bulbs they use argon and other inert gases to prevent filament evaporation and also limit thermal conductivity, like a vacuum. Halogen bulbs are similar but they burn at a higher temperature and the trace halogen gases cause the evaporated metal to be redeposited on the filament. So yes, a vacuum is used partly for its insulating purposes, but it’s not really the same as a thermos, window, or hypothetical refrigerator in that the heat source in a light bulb is in the vacuum itself, and it’s only there to protect that heat/light source. It’s not really used to insulate something else, or to block heat transfer that it isn’t itself creating. ---
**Author:** ![gnarator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gnarator/32/8266_2.png) [@gnarator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarator)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apart-from-thermoses-are-there-any-other-consumer-products-that-use-vacuum-for-insulation/846395/32 "2020-01-14T19:46:45Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Not for insulation purposes but air conditioner/refrigeration systems are first evacuated (to a vacuum) before adding the refrigerant. The reasons for pulling a vacuum on a refrigeration system are: [ol] [li]Boil the moisture out[/li][li]Check for leaks[/li][/ol] ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apart-from-thermoses-are-there-any-other-consumer-products-that-use-vacuum-for-insulation/846395/33 "2020-01-14T20:15:47Z")
> [@gnarator](#): > > The reasons for pulling a vacuum on a refrigeration system are: > [ol] > [li]Boil the moisture out[/li][li]Check for leaks[/li][/ol] Yes exactly and also to remove air from the system. ---
**Author:** ![xizor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xizor/32/102_2.png) [@xizor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xizor)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apart-from-thermoses-are-there-any-other-consumer-products-that-use-vacuum-for-insulation/846395/34 "2020-01-14T20:21:38Z")
> [@naita](#): > > The “vacuum seal” that occurs with a refrigerator doesn’t involve an actual vacuum. Just a very good seal on the door and the drop in pressure as the air inside cools back down after you’ve closed the door. I few years ago at CES, I saw a refrigerator that did have a vacuum seal. When the door was closed it reduced the air level inside to keep food fresh longer. ---
**Author:** ![jnglmassiv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f07891/32.png) [@jnglmassiv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jnglmassiv)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apart-from-thermoses-are-there-any-other-consumer-products-that-use-vacuum-for-insulation/846395/35 "2020-01-14T21:01:05Z")
Does electrical insulation count? The most common household vacuums are probably vacuum fluorescent displays though they are probably way behind LED and liquid crystal now. For example, my microwave display is VFD. CRTs are under vacuum but few televisions and monitors use them. > [@casdave](#): > > Any electronics that uses valves will have a vacuum, things such as valve amps, some guitar pre-amps will have a valve stage to generate the type of overdrive that you can’t quite get any other way We call them vacuum tubes over here. Some radio equipment use tubes, too. Also, vacuum capacitors are used for some high voltage applications. ---
**Author:** ![jjakucyk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3d9bf3/32.png) [@jjakucyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjakucyk)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apart-from-thermoses-are-there-any-other-consumer-products-that-use-vacuum-for-insulation/846395/36 "2020-01-14T21:02:47Z")
> [@xizor](#): > > I few years ago at CES, I saw a refrigerator that did have a vacuum seal. When the door was closed it reduced the air level inside to keep food fresh longer. That sounds like marketing spin. There was (is?) a tabletop clothes dryer that purported to do the same kind of thing, using a partial vacuum to make clothes dry faster. However, to get any appreciably useful vacuum, you need a pretty hefty pump that’s loud and bulky and requires a decent bit of power, not to mention a LONG time to actually pull down that vacuum. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apart-from-thermoses-are-there-any-other-consumer-products-that-use-vacuum-for-insulation/846395/37 "2020-01-14T22:33:41Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I’m pretty sure that those Yeti/RTIC mugs are vacuum-insulated. Yep. I have a Yeti beer coozy. If I pass out with a beer open, it’ll still be cold the next day. Flat, but cold. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apart-from-thermoses-are-there-any-other-consumer-products-that-use-vacuum-for-insulation/846395/38 "2020-01-14T22:43:52Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **EdelweissPirate** : > > And what do you mean when you describe a gas as “not at all close to ideal?” There’s a very simple equation called the Ideal Gas Law that completely describes gases. No gas is truly ideal, but most of them that you’d encounter on a daily basis are a very good approximation to ideal. There’s nothing in the Ideal Gas Law that would hinder vertical motion of gases, so a gas mixture that really did somehow hinder vertical motion would have to be very non-ideal. ---
**Author:** ![am77494](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d2c977/32.png) [@am77494](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/am77494)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apart-from-thermoses-are-there-any-other-consumer-products-that-use-vacuum-for-insulation/846395/39 "2020-01-14T23:41:16Z")
Many consumer products are manufactured using vacuum technology. 1. Semiconductors : All electronic devices including the one you are reading this on relies on processors / semiconductors that need cutting edge vacuum technology. The vacuum needed for processors relies on cryogenic technology to create ever stronger vacuums. Vacuum technology is the enabler for more circuits on a processors. 2. Food : from milk powder toy freeze dried products rely on vacuum. 3. Perfumes : relies on vacuum to extract the aromatic compounds where heating will distort them. Vacuum distillation is also used for petroleum refining and uranium extraction. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apart-from-thermoses-are-there-any-other-consumer-products-that-use-vacuum-for-insulation/846395/40 "2020-01-15T02:30:58Z")
Yes, but none of those has a vacuum when it’s used, just as a part of making it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apart-from-thermoses-are-there-any-other-consumer-products-that-use-vacuum-for-insulation/846395.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apart-from-thermoses-are-there-any-other-consumer-products-that-use-vacuum-for-insulation/846395.md?page=3)