# Apartment: Install ceiling fan, becomes their property? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 25, 2010, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apartment-install-ceiling-fan-becomes-their-property/544428 "2010-06-25T00:43:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2010, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apartment-install-ceiling-fan-becomes-their-property/544428/21 "2010-06-26T00:22:55Z")
A ceiling fan is permanently-attached equipment and rightly becomes the landlord’s property at the moment it is installed, not when you move out. If it coincidentally fell out the day before your move, the landlord’s responsibility would be to reinstall it (not let you take it) and make compensation for injuries or personal property damage sustained. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2010, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apartment-install-ceiling-fan-becomes-their-property/544428/22 "2010-06-26T00:37:10Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > But only if it’s not properly attached to the ceiling. Snerk. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2010, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apartment-install-ceiling-fan-becomes-their-property/544428/23 "2010-06-26T03:18:35Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > That is no different then saying that if you plug your television into the cable outlet it becomes the landlord’s. Screw em. Yes, it is different. Things like TV, lamps, etc. are _portable_ electrical appliances; they are designed to be plugged/unplugged by any person from outlets designed for that purpose. But a ceiling fan is a permanently mounted electrical fixture, attached to the house electrical system, and intended to by wired in by an experienced person. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2010, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apartment-install-ceiling-fan-becomes-their-property/544428/24 "2010-06-26T13:53:45Z")
> [@Superhal](#): > > Possibly relevant story: When we moved into this apartment, we wanted to use our own shower head. The landlord said we can install it, but we have to replace the original when we leave. Obviously, the original head is not ours. I did the same when I lived in an apartment. took my showerhead with me. I don’t see a difference with ceiling fans. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2010, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apartment-install-ceiling-fan-becomes-their-property/544428/25 "2010-06-26T14:10:04Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > I did the same when I lived in an apartment. took my showerhead with me. > > I don’t see a difference with ceiling fans. All depends on the landlord. If he comes in and sees a new fixture it’s his if he wants to make a stink. I had a similar deal with my old landlord. I did the shower head replacement thing, and when I left I reinstalled the original. He had no problem with that. I have to point out that I had agood relationship with my landlord. I even left the new refrigerator I installed when I moved. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2010, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apartment-install-ceiling-fan-becomes-their-property/544428/26 "2010-06-26T19:36:24Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > If there is already a mount and wiring then I call shennaigans. The fan itself is attached to a couple of screws that come with the unit and simply hangs there. Take the thing down when you leave and put the blank plate back on. That is no different hen saying that if you plug your television into the cable outlet it becomes the landlord’s. Screw em. That is factually incorrect, so not good advice. And, although it’s not rocket science to install or uninstall a ceiling fan, if you do it incorrectly and that results in a fire, the shit could possibly hit the fan, so to speak. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2010, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apartment-install-ceiling-fan-becomes-their-property/544428/27 "2010-06-26T20:38:09Z")
> [@Desert\_Nomad](#): > > The property is in Nevada. In Pennsylvania, my father prevailed in court when his former tenant sued him for the value of improvements he made to my dad’s property. They had made vague agreements but foolishly never reduced their agreement to a written lease. Our lawyer successfully argued before the district justice that the PA landlord tenant law presumed that improvements stayed with the property unless they had an agreement otherwise. Obviously I have no idea about Nevada and I’m not a lawyer. **My** leases explicitly say that improvements made to my premises stay with them, and I’d be surprised if any professionally written lease didn’t. What if you build a brick oven in the kitchen? Do you get to take that with you too? ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2010, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apartment-install-ceiling-fan-becomes-their-property/544428/28 "2010-06-26T21:28:59Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > That is factually incorrect, so not good advice. > > And, although it’s not rocket science to install or uninstall a ceiling fan, if you do it incorrectly and that results in a fire, the shit could possibly hit the fan, so to speak. What exactly is incorrect about that? I’ve installed about a hundred ceiling fans working as an electrician’s helper. You screw the fan bracket to the ceiling box, connect the colored wires together and screw the cover plate over it. I also disagree that it is a permanently attached piece of equipment. The fan box is such a thing, as is the house wiring. the fan itself can be taken down or put up by any idiot with a phillips head screwdriver. It is exactly like saying if I hang a large piece of art by screwing it to the stud, it becomes part of the home since it is now “permanently attached”. Sheesh. An improvement should have to be demonstrably shown to be unable to be moved or made to original condition without damaging the property. A fan can simply be taken down and the blank plate put back up. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2010, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apartment-install-ceiling-fan-becomes-their-property/544428/29 "2010-06-26T21:35:13Z")
Missed the edit. I wanted to add that if the tenant chose to install a fan from scratch, by either installing the fan box, or adding the circuit and fan box, then I agree that it becomes part of the property since originally it was not there. If it already exists, then I don’t see why the landlord should get to mump a free fan. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2010, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apartment-install-ceiling-fan-becomes-their-property/544428/30 "2010-06-26T23:21:35Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > What exactly is incorrect about that? I’ve installed about a hundred ceiling fans working as an electrician’s helper. You screw the fan bracket to the ceiling box, connect the colored wires together and screw the cover plate over it. I also disagree that it is a permanently attached piece of equipment. The fan box is such a thing, as is the house wiring. the fan itself can be taken down or put up by any idiot with a phillips head screwdriver. It is exactly like saying if I hang a large piece of art by screwing it to the stud, it becomes part of the home since it is now “permanently attached”. Sheesh. An improvement should have to be demonstrably shown to be unable to be moved or made to original condition without damaging the property. A fan can simply be taken down and the blank plate put back up. Modifying the electrical wiring is not the same as plugging in an appliance. And, I’d be surprised if the OP’s lease would allow him to hire an electrician to do the work, much less do it himself (presumably, not a licensed electrician). The Landlord would most likely have to hire an electrician. We have yet to determine if a ceiling fan is a “fixture”, but I don’t see any difference between a ceiling fan and a light fixture. If you bought a house that had a ceiling fan, the owner couldn’t remove it after the sale unless the two parties had agreed to it. You buy the property, and fixtures are automatically part of the property. So, unless you’ve got a cite that a ceiling fan is not a fixture, then you’re giving bad advice. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2010, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apartment-install-ceiling-fan-becomes-their-property/544428/31 "2010-06-27T00:20:12Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > We have yet to determine if a ceiling fan is a “fixture”, but I don’t see any difference between a ceiling fan and a light fixture. If you bought a house that had a ceiling fan, the owner couldn’t remove it after the sale unless the two parties had agreed to it. You buy the property, and fixtures are automatically part of the property. So, unless you’ve got a cite that a ceiling fan is not a fixture, then you’re giving bad advice. snip. Fair enough. Say the Op’s apt comes with a poor quality light fixture, he decides to upgrade it so he can work on his collection of miniature dollhouses. Assuming that the work was done by someone qualified, and the original fixture saved, should the landlord get the fancy new light when the op moves out? The OP is capable of having the original put back at no cost to the landlord. It seems to me that deals like this are just a chance for the landlord to get something for nothing. I don’t see how that’s fair. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2010, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apartment-install-ceiling-fan-becomes-their-property/544428/32 "2010-06-27T00:39:22Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > Fair enough. Say the Op’s apt comes with a poor quality light fixture, he decides to upgrade it so he can work on his collection of miniature dollhouses. Assuming that the work was done by someone qualified, and the original fixture saved, should the landlord get the fancy new light when the op moves out? The OP is capable of having the original put back at no cost to the landlord. It seems to me that deals like this are just a chance for the landlord to get something for nothing. I don’t see how that’s fair. That’s not the way it works. Again, you don’t just go doing electrical work in a rental unit. It doesn’t belong to you. Most leases have a clause specifically forbidding modifications beyond hanging pictures. You go to the landlord and ask him to do the upgrade. It’s up to him to decide if: 1. He tells you tough shit, no. 2. He graciously offers to have it done no charge. 3. He let’s you buy the fixture, but pay for the install and uninstall (when you move out) and let’s you keep the fixture. etc. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2010, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apartment-install-ceiling-fan-becomes-their-property/544428/33 "2010-06-27T17:10:42Z")
> [@Desert\_Nomad](#): > > We rent an apartment (they were original built as condos/townhomes, but the complex is bank-owned and the units are being let as apartments). > > We are the original tenants and are the first people to live in our unit which we hope to eventually buy if they are ever for sale. > > We have a ceiling fan in the living room which came with the place. There is a spot to mount a ceiling fan in the master bedroom. We were told we could buy a fan, but the apartment maintenance people were the only ones who are allowed to install it, and after doing so, if we move out, we are not allowed to take the fan with us. > > Does this seem right or legal? > > The property is in Nevada. I am not sure about Nevada, but it is standard rental agreement language in Oklahoma. Best wishes, hh [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apartment-install-ceiling-fan-becomes-their-property/544428.md?page=1)