# Apathy over Trump's Power Grab **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 4, 2021, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apathy-over-trumps-power-grab/948028 "2021-08-04T12:07:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apathy-over-trumps-power-grab/948028/1 "2021-08-04T12:07:49Z")
No other thread seems quite appropriate for this. I saw it and agree with it wholeheartedly > [@](#): > > [The greatest political corruption scandal in U.S. history, and America is outraged for HALF A DAY?](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2021/8/3/2043696/-The-greatest-political-corruption-scandal-in-U-S-history-and-America-is-outraged-for-HALF-A-DAY) > > Sorry—am I missing something? > > Did we or did we not all [learn](https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/30/politics/trump-election-justice/index.html) last Friday that the previous president of the United States of America, in his last weeks in office, tried to strong-arm the Justice Department to _falsely declare that the 2020 presidential election was fraudulent_ , and even threatened to fire the acting attorney general if he didn’t?! Didn’t we read that a _sitting president of the world’s greatest democracy_ told the nation’s top law enforcement official: “Just say that the election was corrupt and leave the rest to me and the [Republican] Congressmen”? > > Does that ring a bell? I seem to recall something along those lines > **[The greatest political corruption scandal in U.S. history, and America is...](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2021/8/3/2043696/-The-greatest-political-corruption-scandal-in-U-S-history-and-America-is-outraged-for-HALF-A-DAY?utm_campaign=trending)** > > Sorry—am I missing something? Did we or did we not all learn last Friday that the previous president of the United States of America, in his last weeks in office, tried to strong-arm the Justice Department to falsely declare that the 2020... ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apathy-over-trumps-power-grab/948028/2 "2021-08-04T12:20:59Z")
Americans who are sane enough to see through Trump’s lies and corruption are not surprised by this, to put it mildly. This group of Americans is mostly just glad that he has vacated the White House. Americans who are fooled byTrump will defend him no matter what the accusation. History will be the judge for Trump and his enablers. ---
**Author:** ![Kimera757](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kimera757/32/3765_2.png) [@Kimera757](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimera757)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apathy-over-trumps-power-grab/948028/3 "2021-08-04T12:28:13Z")
The news is so exhausting. I honestly thought that was old news. While outrageous, Trump launched an actual insurrection. Trump clearly started the fraud train early (before the election itself, with the battle against mailed ballots being a key part of it), tried to get his Attorney General and the Supreme Court to call the election fraudulent, he tried to get the Vice President to ignore certified results, etc. I assumed at some point he tried to get the DOJ to call the election fraudulent and I’m not at all surprised he did so, I’m just slightly surprised this wasn’t confirmed before. I’m remembering Devin from LegalEagle reporting on various Trump things. In some videos, it would cut out to “Future Devin” (the news was changing so fast that the video was becoming outdated as it was getting filmed) who would be dressed differently and looking exhausted as he put in an update. This could happen two or three times in some videos. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apathy-over-trumps-power-grab/948028/4 "2021-08-04T12:55:25Z")
I think we’re just exhausted and not surprised. The folks that didn’t already believe that Trump was trying to steal the election, will never believe it no matter the evidence. Or at least they will never admit that they believe it. ---
**Author:** ![Tatterdemalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/43a26b/32.png) [@Tatterdemalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tatterdemalion)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apathy-over-trumps-power-grab/948028/5 "2021-08-04T14:50:11Z")
Or don’t think it was a bad thing, and regret he didn’t succeed. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apathy-over-trumps-power-grab/948028/6 "2021-08-04T15:01:30Z")
I personally believe Trump should be tried for treason & should have been impeached, and it was just the onslaught of evil he did that moved the goalpost enough to avoid this. I am also grateful to have a boring president again, In a nation of We the People we don’t need such a front and center president which is best used in dictatorship, monarchies and religiously controlled nations. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apathy-over-trumps-power-grab/948028/7 "2021-08-04T15:02:40Z")
There has been so much news from anonymous inside sources saying that Trump did some outrageous thing that it all blurs together. The difference in this case (which I hadn’t realized until I re-read the [original source](https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/30/politics/trump-election-justice/index.html) just now) is that for this thing there is an actual name on the record with contemporaneous notes, so it has a bit more bite. But all in all it wasn’t anything we didn’t already know or strongly suspect. This was the equivalent to there being new documentation that showed that the Nazi’s started the Reichstag fire. It’s nice to have confirmation but it doesn’t change anything. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apathy-over-trumps-power-grab/948028/8 "2021-08-04T15:15:17Z")
For most any other politician, this would have been a shameful, legacy-destroying scandal. For Trump it’s just another Tuesday. Another problem is that the country is so politically divided right now, that this sort of revelation doesn’t really change anyone’s perceptions. Those who are most outraged about this are people who never liked Trump to begin with and always knew he was crooked. And most Trump supporters don’t really give a shit about this, and, if it’s on their radar at all, see it just another example of the media and/or deep state trying to bring him down. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apathy-over-trumps-power-grab/948028/9 "2021-08-04T17:25:43Z")
Yeah, I don’t think ‘apathy’ is the right word. It’s just outrage exhaustion. It’s hard for me to imagine being more frightened or outraged than I was in 2016 when we learned that Trump and his campaign were actively working with foreign interests, chiefly Russia, to subvert the 2016 election. That level of fear and anger can’t be sustained over decades, but the overriding need to do whatever can be done remains. So my residual goals remain the same: To do everything in my power to overcome this Trump cancer in our society. I am active in all elections. I badger friends and family to be the same. The most common advice I give people who aren’t sure about election fraud is to encourage them to volunteer to work in one. They’ll soon realize why the assertions are bullshit. I take most opportunities to expose Trump’s crimes and lies – surprising how many are unaware. If there are protests I can attend, I do. I contact my state representatives often. I’m open to suggestions about what more a regular citizen can do. As others have said, confirmation of Trump’s total corruption is no surprise. Nor is the corruption of his party, any longer. Now what’s left is just the hard work. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apathy-over-trumps-power-grab/948028/10 "2021-08-04T18:37:58Z")
Related news > [@](#): > > # Trump appointee at DOJ eyed scandalous Georgia election scheme > > A Trump appointee at the Justice Department wanted to send Georgia Republicans a plan to overturn election results. It didn’t work - but it could have. > > … > > According to the materials, which have not been independently verified by MSNBC or NBC News, Jeffrey Clark – at the time, the acting head of the Justice Department’s civil division – wrote emails that would urge Georgia Republicans to take the Big Lie seriously. > > The emails were dated Dec. 28, 2020 – exactly one week before the Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol – and Clark apparently wanted a green light from then-acting attorney general Jeffrey Rosen and then-acting deputy attorney general Richard Donoghue. > Clark’s message intended to tell officials in Georgia that the Justice Department was investigating “irregularities” in the presidential election and wanted state legislators to go into a special session “pertaining to the appointment of presidential electors.” > > The same letter went on to suggest that if Republican legislators appointed their own slate of electors – backing Trump, despite the fact that he lost in Georgia – they theoretically could be accepted as legitimate. > > Or put another way, the acting head of the Justice Department’s civil division late last year, created a map of sorts that GOP officials in Georgia could follow to overturn the will of the state’s voters. > > We now know, of course, that the plan didn’t work. Georgia Republicans never received such a message from the Justice Department because Clark’s draft was rejected out of hand by Jeffrey Rosen, the acting attorney general at the time, and Richard Donoghue, the acting deputy AG. > > “There is no chance that I would sign this letter or anything remotely like this,” [Donoghue said](https://abcnews.go.com/US/doj-officials-rejected-colleagues-request-intervene-georgias-election/story?id=79243198) an hour after Clark sought approval for his draft. > > … > As we [discussed](https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/why-trump-s-new-justice-dept-scandal-matters-even-after-n1255489) soon after, when Rosen wouldn’t help try to overturn the election results, Trump considered Plan B: a gambit in which he’d fire Rosen and replace him with Clark. > **[Trump appointee at DOJ eyed scandalous Georgia election scheme](https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/trump-appointee-doj-eyed-scandalous-georgia-election-scheme-n1275944)** > > A Trump appointee at the Justice Department wanted to send Georgia Republicans a plan to overturn election results. It didn't work - but it could have. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apathy-over-trumps-power-grab/948028/11 "2021-08-04T18:40:11Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > I don’t think ‘apathy’ is the right word. It’s just outrage exhaustion. Exactly. This “revelation” about Trump goes in the pile with the other 7,541 things about which we can accurately say, “If Obama had said/done this, he would have been impeached the next day, convicted 98-2 in the Senate and shot at dawn the day after for treason.” ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apathy-over-trumps-power-grab/948028/12 "2021-08-04T19:52:53Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > It’s nice to have confirmation but it doesn’t change anything. Also-does it matter? As in, do we think any consequences from Trump or his glob of corrupt pseudohumans will result from this news? ---
**Author:** ![Kimera757](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kimera757/32/3765_2.png) [@Kimera757](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimera757)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apathy-over-trumps-power-grab/948028/13 "2021-08-04T21:08:15Z")
There is that too. The Trump news I’m following most closely is the tax fraud case. Tax fraud is bad, but some of Trump’s actions, like what was done to children at the border, are worse. He can actually get convicted of tax fraud though, assuming his accountants actually turn documents over. (Will we see them get jailed by the court, but documents don’t get turned over so Trump gets away? How much is Trump paying his accountants?) ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apathy-over-trumps-power-grab/948028/14 "2021-08-04T21:19:25Z")
> [@Kimera757](#): > > He can actually get convicted of tax fraud though, assuming his accountants actually turn documents over. (Will we see them get jailed by the court, but documents don’t get turned over so Trump gets away? How much is Trump paying his accountants?) It’s not up to Trump or his accountants to turn over the tax records. If you’re referring to the case by the Manhattan DA’s Office/State of New York, the records have already been turned over. Cy Vance’s office has had them for a few months. If you’re referring to Trump’s federal tax records requested by Congress, the responsibility to turn them over is with the IRS. The records were first subpoenaed by Richie Neal in 2019 on behalf of the House Ways and Means Committee. Trump fought their release tooth and nail, co-opting Steve Mnuchin to deny what is a clear law to turn them over. Congress sued, it went to the SCOTUS twice, the SCOTUS ruled the second time (finally) what everyone knew was true – that the IRS _shall_ turn over the returns. Trump has now asked for an injunction against their release, but most believe this will be short-lived, as he has exhausted his remedies and his arguments are ridiculous. He has no more avenues to SCOTUS on this issue, of which I’m aware. IANAL. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apathy-over-trumps-power-grab/948028/15 "2021-08-04T21:44:39Z")
> [@Kimera757](#): > > The Trump news I’m following most closely is the tax fraud case. Tax fraud is bad, but some of Trump’s actions, like what was done to children at the border, are worse. He can actually get convicted of tax fraud though, assuming his accountants actually turn documents over. It’s rather like Al Capone being imprisoned for tax fraud when “everyone knows” he did – or ordered – much, much more. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apathy-over-trumps-power-grab/948028/16 "2021-08-04T23:27:52Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Didn’t we read that a _sitting president of the world’s greatest democracy_ I got to that point and stopped. You (that’s the USAian collective you) have turned your own advertising into a local legend. You can’t get people to vote. You can’t hold elections. You can’t count votes. You can’t give those eligible to vote equal representation. You can’t run an effective legislature. You might just be getting a tinnsie, weenie idea of why the US model fails so consistently in other jurisdictions. Forgetting that the outgoing President attempted a mutiny is small beer compared to accepting that those inherent fragilities and failings need fundamental reform. The good news; there are plenty of better examples out there. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apathy-over-trumps-power-grab/948028/17 "2021-08-04T23:48:17Z")
The Trump model is, do 10,000 outrageous things, and each thing therefore gets only one-tiny-fraction the attention it deserves. In a way, it’s genius. Scandal-Gish-Galloping. You get away with 10,000 scandals for the price of only a few dozen. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2021, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apathy-over-trumps-power-grab/948028/18 "2021-08-05T00:01:52Z")
American democracy was significantly influenced by Roman democracy. It will collapse in ways that are similar as well, very likely within the next 4-8 years. American civilization may endure for another 10 years before it, too, collapses. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2021, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apathy-over-trumps-power-grab/948028/19 "2021-08-05T01:25:26Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Trump has now asked for an injunction against their release, but most believe this will be short-lived, as he has exhausted his remedies and his arguments are ridiculous. He has no more avenues to SCOTUS on this issue, of which I’m aware. Spoke too soon. Apparently Trump filed his injunction against the Treasury Department (IRS), meaning he’ll get yet another bite at this apple and may have another avenue to the SCOTUS after all. Those tax returns must be thermonuclear. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2021, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apathy-over-trumps-power-grab/948028/20 "2021-08-05T02:32:38Z")
Apathy because Trump won’t face consequences is the (or at least a) reason he won’t face consequences. Great tactic on his part, wear people down and then you can get away with everything. But yeah, we’re fucked. Next time is more likely to work. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apathy-over-trumps-power-grab/948028.md?page=2)