# Apocalypse Now--"new" observations **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 26, 2019, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apocalypse-now-new-observations/830231 "2019-02-26T07:34:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2019, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apocalypse-now-new-observations/830231/1 "2019-02-26T07:34:20Z")
1. I think this was resolved before: there’s NO WAY there was a river long enough, even if it flowed into Cambodia, to take as long as it did for Willard to get to Col Kurtz. Vietnam is a very narrow country. I am pretty sure the river name was totally made up. 2. I’ve seen and listened to the legends about Marlon Brando showing to the movie set overweight, unprepared, didn’t know his lines and despite what the director wanted, shaved bald, and because of that the end of the movie was murky. Watching it once again in 2019 I don’t see that. The entire movie is a buildup between Willard and a totally insane Kurtz aka Marlon. Brando who in 1979 was a VERY big deal. The ultimate method actor Brando to me scored a home run and might have done all of the above intentionally as the Kurtz character is indeed a broken, confused, insane man- as I imagine Brando being at this time. His brief performance is BRILLIANT (just watch the Inoculation scene) and I can’t imagine how phony and staged it would have been had he just showed up prepared with his hair and stayed on script. He probably did the movie a favor showing up fucked up. 1. Is there any official follows ups to the movie? For instance, I’d love to know an origin story about Col Kurtz; an after story about Willard… Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2019, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apocalypse-now-new-observations/830231/2 "2019-02-26T16:11:09Z")
> [@russian\_heel](#): > > 1. I’ve seen and listened to the legends about Marlon Brando showing to the movie set overweight, unprepared, didn’t know his lines and despite what the director wanted, shaved bald, and because of that the end of the movie was murky. Have you seen _Hearts of Darkness: A Filmmaker’s Apocalypse_, filmed by Coppola’s wife Eleanor during the making of the film? These facts are hardly “legends.” Coppola talks about his enormous problems with Brando and his despair when he saw how he showed up. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2019, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apocalypse-now-new-observations/830231/3 "2019-02-26T16:43:33Z")
I never really understood what was up with Marlon Brando. He seemed to want to act, but was also super lazy and self-centered. I guess that is all there is, but I sometimes wonder if he had some kind of anti-social personality or something else. I’m pretty sure he showed up unprepared, tried to take the money without doing the job, and all the other things he is known for in that movie. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2019, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apocalypse-now-new-observations/830231/4 "2019-02-26T17:31:04Z")
Sometimes actors who behave like Brando are great, and sometimes they’re self-centered assholes. I believe Brando in AN was the latter. [“Do you find my method…acting…unsound?”](https://youtu.be/MvwOw2Y--pQ?t=250) “I saw no acting…at all.” ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apocalypse-now-new-observations/830231/5 "2019-02-27T17:02:06Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > I never really understood what was up with Marlon Brando. He seemed to want to act, but was also super lazy and self-centered. I guess that is all there is, but I sometimes wonder if he had some kind of anti-social personality or something else. > > I’m pretty sure he showed up unprepared, tried to take the money without doing the job, and all the other things he is known for in that movie. “The only reason I’m in Hollywood is that I don’t have the moral courage to refuse the money.” Marlon Brando That, among other things he said, gave me the impression that Brando didn’t really enjoy acting and that he just liked the money. His bizarre behaviors on the sets of some of his later movies I attribute to simple enjoyment of trolling. He wanted to see how fucked up he could act before a director would finally say “You know what Marlon? No. We aren’t going to do that.” Some never did say it, and we films where Marlon wears a champagne bucket on his head or other foolishness as a result. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apocalypse-now-new-observations/830231/6 "2019-02-27T17:05:42Z")
I think the thrust of that quote is “…instead of on Broadway”. He enjoyed acting, just not _movie_ acting. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apocalypse-now-new-observations/830231/7 "2019-02-27T17:10:38Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I think the thrust of that quote is “…instead of on Broadway”. He enjoyed acting, just not _movie_ acting. “Acting is an empty and useless profession.” Marlon Brando ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apocalypse-now-new-observations/830231/8 "2019-02-27T20:22:24Z")
The _Redux_ version is hopeless, and drags on longer than the actual war. I was wishing Willard would kill _me!_ ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apocalypse-now-new-observations/830231/9 "2019-02-27T20:29:32Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > I never really understood what was up with Marlon Brando. He seemed to want to act, but was also super lazy and self-centered. I guess that is all there is, but I sometimes wonder if he had some kind of anti-social personality or something else. > > I’m pretty sure he showed up unprepared, tried to take the money without doing the job, and all the other things he is known for in that movie. ::Must resist political jab:: ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apocalypse-now-new-observations/830231/10 "2019-02-28T02:52:01Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > The _Redux_ version is hopeless, and drags on longer than the actual war. I was wishing Willard would kill _me!_ The original was properly edited and so much should have been left on the cutting room floor. Sex with the bunnies, the surfboard chase, sex with the French girl- none of that worked for me. Porklips Now was the best movie satire ever. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apocalypse-now-new-observations/830231/11 "2019-02-28T03:08:00Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > The original was properly edited and so much should have been left on the cutting room floor. Sex with the bunnies, the surfboard chase, sex with the French girl- none of that worked for me. Yeah, the French plantation seems like it belongs to a different movie. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apocalypse-now-new-observations/830231/12 "2019-02-28T03:28:42Z")
There is an interesting scene- don’t know if it even made it into the _Redux_- where the French force the Americans to hand over half their ammo and supplies, except Willard snuck out of the girl’s room during the night, silently killed all the guards, and switched the supplies with rocks and dead bodies: > [@](#): > > ``` > 183 EXT. ROXANNE'S TERRACE - NIGHT > > We can VIEW into the room, as Willard has silently > slipped out of her bed, and is a dark sinister figure > kneeling in final preparations for going out in the > night. > > Without a sound, he comes out to the terrace, and > scales down the wall of the old building, disappearing > into the darkness. > 184 EXT. THE DOCK - P.B.R. - NIGHT > > Two Vietnamese guard the P.B.R. -- suddenly, feet first, > the first disappears into the thicket. > 185 CLOSE VIEW ON WILLARD > > in the thicket; we realize he has just killed the man with > a knife. Willard stalks the second guard and makes quick > work of him with his knife. He even enjoys it. Silently, > he drags the body out of sight. > 186 MED. VIEW ON THE P.B.R. > > The dark figure boards the boat silently. He disappears > into the hold. > 187 NEW VIEW > > He lifts out several cases of supplies, working quickly, > with a grace that indicates he is a man who has done his > best work alone, and at night. > > CUT TO. > 188 INT. ROXANNE'S ROOM - CLOSE SHOT - WILLARD - MORNING > > He sleeps soundly alone in the bed - we HEAR SOMEONE > moving around in the room. He wakes suddenly -- PULL > BACK TO REVEAL Roxanne combing her hair and buttoning up > her blouse. She notices he is awake and smiles. > > ROXANNE > I will fix you breakfast. > > He starts to get up. > > WILLARD > I'm afraid I won't have time -- > I gotta -- > > ROXANNE > Whe you reach the boat you will > find that half your fifty calibre > stores -- a case of grenades, a > mortar and two M-16's and a > case of clips are being > transfered to us by your order. > > He stops -- seemingly stunned. > > WILLARD > So that's it. > > ROXANNE > You may think what you wish, > Captain, but I like you very > much. > > She turns to go. > > WILLARD > What if I say no. > > ROXANNE > Then Philippe will have to kill > all of you. > > She leaves. > 189 EXT. DOCK - FULL SHOT - WILLARD, OTHERS > > He walks down onto the dock. Gaston's men are transferring > ammunition boxes. > > Gaston is standing with Philippe, who are covering the > Chief and crew with M-16's. > > GASTON > Two of my men deserted last > night. It happens from time > to time. I assume my daughter > told you of our conditions. > > WILLARD > Your daughter. > > CHIEF > They taking half our ammo, > Captain -- said it was your orders. > > He pauses for a second. > > WILLARD > That's right -- I did. > > The Chief spits in the water disgustedly and starts the > engines. Willard looks hard at Gaston. > > WILLARD > I guess this is whAt men of war > do -- eh? > > GASTON > We endure, captain -- you can > blow up the house and we will > live in the cellar -- destroy > that and we'll dig a hole in the > jungle and sleep on it. Burn > the forest and we'll hide in > the swamp. all the while, we > do but one thing -- clean the > blood off our bayonets. > (pause) > Au revoir, Captain. > 190 LONG SHOT - DOCK - P.B.R. > > Willard climbs on board and it pulls away. > 191 EXT. P.B.R. - MED. SHOT - WILLARD, CHIEF > > The BOAT ROARS out across the river. The Chief looks over > at Willard. They stare at each other for a moment. > > CHIEF > Next time we get in a good fire > fight -- I'd like to know how > she was, Captain. > > Willard just smiles at the Chief. he leans over and pulls > up a floorboard -- the men stare in amezement; it contains > the contents of all those ammo boxes. .50 calibre; clips; > grenades. > > CHEF > Holy shit. > > CLEAN > What did you put in all those > ammo boxes? > > WILLARD > Rocks, sand -- those two men > who deserted. > > CHIEF > When'd you do it? > > WILLARD > While you were sleeping. > > He lets the board drop. > > Willard moves to the back of the boat. > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apocalypse-now-new-observations/830231/13 "2019-02-28T04:26:37Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > Yeah, the French plantation seems like it belongs to a different movie. Thanks for succinctly nailing what I felt after seeing _Redux_. The French plantation scene just felt unbelieveable. These people are running a plantation, way the hell upriver, with a war going on around them, and they’re acting as if the French were still in charge of things? Fine food, a well-stocked wine cellar, and the intent to stay where they are? Had they been farther downriver (say, near the USO show site), it might have been somewhat believable, but as they are so far upriver, it just boggles. It does belong in another movie. ---
**Author:** ![mcgato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac8455/32.png) [@mcgato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mcgato)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apocalypse-now-new-observations/830231/14 "2019-02-28T13:27:20Z")
I thought that the plantation scene was supposed to be a representation of the ghosts of the former French rule. It was somehow supposed to be a warning to the Americans about trying to control the area. It does not work in the movie and was rightfully left on the cutting room floor. Note that I only saw Redux once, since it is a horrible mess. Fun fact though: if you look closely in the original Apocalypse Now, you can see the surfboard that they stole from Kilgore in Redux in the PBR. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Mabes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mike_mabes/32/1782_2.png) [@Mike\_Mabes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mike_Mabes)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2019, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apocalypse-now-new-observations/830231/15 "2019-03-02T08:24:33Z")
Well fuck. I just spent a good 10 minutes writing about Brando, and Coppola, and the film. And my stupid computer screws me up and goes into that “These pages are becoming unresponsive, wait or kill” message. And I intermittedly for a half an hour keep hitting “wait”. I did other things in the meantime, like making butter chicken in the Instant Pot, but in the end my thoughts about the film were lost to the cloud. When this happens, usually it is me fucking up, like hitting CTRL A (instead of SHIFT A) and the space bar, deleting everything I’ve just written, I simply cannot go back and rewrite it all. Suffice to say, Brando showed up overweight and did not know his lines. Coppola worked with what he had and made a goddamn brilliant film. BTW, Denis Hopper showed up, trim and fit, and didn’t know his lines either. He wanted to improvise. Coppola told him, “You have to know your lines before you can forget them” ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2019, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apocalypse-now-new-observations/830231/16 "2019-03-06T02:52:21Z")
> [@Mike\_Mabes](#): > > When this happens, usually it is me fucking up, like hitting CTRL A (instead of SHIFT A) and the space bar, deleting everything I’ve just written, I simply cannot go back and rewrite it all. If you accidentally delete everything, try a CTRL-Z. Should put it back word (or phrase) by word. CTRL-Y goes the other way. Experiment with it. Didn’t know about this myself for years. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stafford_cripps/32/7167_2.png) [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stafford_Cripps)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2019, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apocalypse-now-new-observations/830231/17 "2019-03-06T09:20:26Z")
> [@Mike\_Mabes](#): > > BTW, Denis Hopper showed up, trim and fit, and didn’t know his lines either. He wanted to improvise. Coppola told him, “You have to know your lines before you can forget them” Last time I watched the film, not long after re-reading Heart of Darkness, I remember thinking that Hopper’s character was surprisingly similar to the equivalent character in the book. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Mabes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mike_mabes/32/1782_2.png) [@Mike\_Mabes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mike_Mabes)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2019, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apocalypse-now-new-observations/830231/18 "2019-03-09T22:34:41Z")
[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/Isk-mJBK1tk/hqdefault.jpg "Dennis Hopper (on Apocalypse Now and Marlon Brando)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Isk-mJBK1tk) Hopper’s take on the movie. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2019, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apocalypse-now-new-observations/830231/19 "2019-03-09T22:51:47Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > Thanks for succinctly nailing what I felt after seeing _Redux_. > > The French plantation scene just felt unbelieveable. These people are running a plantation, way the hell upriver, with a war going on around them, and they’re acting as if the French were still in charge of things? Fine food, a well-stocked wine cellar, and the intent to stay where they are? Had they been farther downriver (say, near the USO show site), it might have been somewhat believable, but as they are so far upriver, it just boggles. It does belong in another movie. It fits about as well as if you had \*Titanic \*sail to Hawaii before sinking. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2019, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apocalypse-now-new-observations/830231/20 "2019-03-09T23:15:49Z")
> [@russian\_heel](#): > > His brief performance is BRILLIANT (just watch the Inoculation scene) and I can’t imagine how phony and staged it would have been had he just showed up prepared with his hair and stayed on script. He probably did the movie a favor showing up fucked up. Definitely. I don’t know what kind of performance they expected Brando to deliver but they got something that actually worked. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apocalypse-now-new-observations/830231.md?page=2)