# Apologies in order to SDMB member in light of new Ilhan Omar info? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 24, 2019, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apologies-in-order-to-sdmb-member-in-light-of-new-ilhan-omar-info/835971 "2019-06-24T15:43:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apologies-in-order-to-sdmb-member-in-light-of-new-ilhan-omar-info/835971/121 "2019-06-25T00:30:42Z")
> [@Helmut\_Doork](#): > > If you are referring to me, but are not naming me because you are too superior or whatever the logic, if you want to lower yourself to respond directly to a post of mine, would be glad to see where you find bigotry? > > Did you read the OP where I made it quite clear I don’t give a fig about Rep. Omar, my point was to expose personal hypocrisy? Oh, get off it. You posted that entire bit of nonsense because (a) you believe it, and/or (b) you want it to be true. The entire “conspiracy theory” is bigoted BS, exactly like the birtherism Trump touts. Speaking of which, yeah, right, there was no way the state vital statistics office is going to pony up that document to Trump’s employees without Obama’s permission. So, to sum it up, troll, Trump’s claim to sending agents to verify that particular birth certificate was a trolling stunt exactly like your OP here. And my comment about trolls, while it does of course include you, is a general complaint I’m known to make on this board from time to time, said times being, you guessed it, you sad dishonest bigoted lying sack of dung, school vacations in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apologies-in-order-to-sdmb-member-in-light-of-new-ilhan-omar-info/835971/122 "2019-06-25T00:43:27Z")
> [@Helmut\_Doork](#): > > The motivation for the marriage remains unclear. However, the totality of the evidence points to possible immigration fraud and student loan fraud. How many times do you bigots have to be told this before it get through your thick skulls? _Brother_ is already _immediate family member_. Do you not get that? And, yes, the insinuation that she “married her brother” is offensive and bigoted. Your touting that nonsense shows that you lean more towards (a) than (b) above. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apologies-in-order-to-sdmb-member-in-light-of-new-ilhan-omar-info/835971/123 "2019-06-25T00:55:16Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > How many times do you bigots have to be told this before it get through your thick skulls? _Brother_ is already _immediate family member_. Do you not get that? And, yes, the insinuation that she “married her brother” is offensive and bigoted. Your touting that nonsense shows that you lean more towards (a) than (b) above. It is almost certainly true that the hope of the right is to insinuate incest. The evidence doesn’t support that. More importantly, **Helmut Doork** made it clear that he was NOT insinuating incest and made it clear exactly what allegation he was backing. You have yelled at him for doing something that he was not doing - or at least not in the comment that you have quoted. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apologies-in-order-to-sdmb-member-in-light-of-new-ilhan-omar-info/835971/124 "2019-06-25T01:05:11Z")
> [@Helmut\_Doork](#): > > Seems a while ago I read a post by member Shodan regarding this exact topic- when he or she broached the topic, the mob/herd mentality response was swift and immediate- this member is hateful, evil and trolling, cannot possibly be true, and the thread was closed due to being inflammatory trolling? > > But now a major liberal newspaper feels it has enough evidence to question it as well- not the National Enquirer, but the Minnesota Star Tribune! A respected paper for over 150 years! > > I personally don’t know or care, but have issue with pile-ons and people who know zero on a topic insisting they know things they don’t about people they don’t know. > > I started this to see if people will as quickly and vehemently admit they may have been wrong. > > To the board, if it is out of order to restart a thread on this topic, even in light of new evidence, no offense intended, please close if needed. Otherwise, let the apologies begin! > > article: > > [http://www.startribune.com/new-documents-revisit-questions-about-rep-ilhan-omar-s-marriage/511681362/](http://www.startribune.com/new-documents-revisit-questions-about-rep-ilhan-omar-s-marriage/511681362/) First explain exactly what she has done wrong, and then explain how it is worse that a president that colludes with Russia, hides his own financial information and has a disgusting private life. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apologies-in-order-to-sdmb-member-in-light-of-new-ilhan-omar-info/835971/125 "2019-06-25T01:11:21Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > First explain exactly what she has done wrong, and then explain how it is worse that a president that colludes with Russia, hides his own financial information and has a disgusting private life. I’m not Doork but… 1. Visa fraud and perjury. 2. That’s not how the criminal system works. If the police pick you up for aggravated assault and you point out that your Aunt Sally got away with murder 2 years ago, _the police will not set you free._ ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apologies-in-order-to-sdmb-member-in-light-of-new-ilhan-omar-info/835971/126 "2019-06-25T01:19:16Z")
**Doork** doesn’t care about any of your shit, **Sage Rat.** His pure heart aches only for the tainted virtue of brother **Shodan.** ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apologies-in-order-to-sdmb-member-in-light-of-new-ilhan-omar-info/835971/127 "2019-06-25T01:32:42Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > **Doork** doesn’t care about any of your shit, **Sage Rat.** His pure heart aches only for the tainted virtue of brother **Shodan.** I’ll trust that he’s earned being distrusted then and leave it to him to defend himself. And so saying, I have nothing more to add until something does or doesn’t move on this case. I leave the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apologies-in-order-to-sdmb-member-in-light-of-new-ilhan-omar-info/835971/128 "2019-06-25T01:47:51Z")
Hey don’t forget your cross… ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apologies-in-order-to-sdmb-member-in-light-of-new-ilhan-omar-info/835971/129 "2019-06-25T02:00:11Z")
> [@Helmut\_Doork](#): > > there seems to be a disproportionate amount of anger over the thought that a beloved public figure may have committed a minor indiscretion as an 18 year old immigrant student by marrying a relative to get them free entry into NDSU or whatever the potential reason […] > > Because the level of sheer disbelief that someone could commit low level fraud as a teenager, a decade before public office, seems unusually high, which is all the accusation here is, at worst. What people are angry about, and not disproportionately, is that conservatives are once again doing all they can to encourage persistent rumors, _ **without a shred of real evidence** _, that liberal politicians (especially ones of color) have been fraudulently misrepresenting important things about themselves. Show me any actual **evidence** that Ilhan Omar committed fraud by claiming marriage to an immediate family member, and I’ll decide how angry I am about her behavior. In the meantime, you’re whining that people shouldn’t be so angry about spiteful conservatives like **Shodan** deliberately spreading such rumors without any evidence, because hey, it’s not like they’re accusing her of a **major** crime without any evidence, so what’s the big deal? Nah, you can fuck right off with that bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Helmut\_Doork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e8c25b/32.png) [@Helmut\_Doork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helmut_Doork)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apologies-in-order-to-sdmb-member-in-light-of-new-ilhan-omar-info/835971/130 "2019-06-25T02:29:39Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Oh, get off it. You posted that entire bit of nonsense because (a) you believe it, and/or (b) you want it to be true. The entire “conspiracy theory” is bigoted BS, exactly like the birtherism Trump touts. Speaking of which, yeah, right, there was no way the state vital statistics office is going to pony up that document to Trump’s employees without Obama’s permission. So, to sum it up, troll, Trump’s claim to sending agents to verify that particular birth certificate was a trolling stunt exactly like your OP here. > > And my comment about trolls, while it does of course include you, is a general complaint I’m known to make on this board from time to time, said times being, you guessed it, you sad dishonest bigoted lying sack of dung, school vacations in the US. tell me, if zero basis in fact, then why this very specific rumour about this very specific person was chosen as the one to tell about them? And sorry but your theory about USA and summer is a wee bit, how you say- dumb? we are to believe high school and college kids in USA sit around all spring, waiting for the final day of class so they can immediately run out and…troll the oldtimers on a local message board? :rolleyes: What exactly is in place that keeps us, i mean them, from doing it year round?? too busy with glee club and dances? ---
**Author:** ![Helmut\_Doork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e8c25b/32.png) [@Helmut\_Doork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helmut_Doork)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apologies-in-order-to-sdmb-member-in-light-of-new-ilhan-omar-info/835971/131 "2019-06-25T02:35:28Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > First explain exactly what she has done wrong, and then explain how it is worse that a president that colludes with Russia, hides his own financial information and has a disgusting private life. If a marriage was illegal and used in some way for financial gain from the govt., I am positive that would be breaking at least a few. What would be the point of doing something so ludicrous if not for an illicit gain? By that logic, since nothing is worse than trump, then every thread here should be about him, nothing else? nothing is worse than pedophilia, why are you talking about him and not that, exclusively? ---
**Author:** ![Helmut\_Doork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e8c25b/32.png) [@Helmut\_Doork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helmut_Doork)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apologies-in-order-to-sdmb-member-in-light-of-new-ilhan-omar-info/835971/132 "2019-06-25T02:37:59Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > **Doork** doesn’t care about any of your shit, **Sage Rat.** His pure heart aches only for the tainted virtue of brother **Shodan.** Actually you are wrong again, much respect to Sage Rat:) for not being afraid to speak his or her mind to the bullies on this board, and not being afraid to state a logical opinion that isnt popular! ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apologies-in-order-to-sdmb-member-in-light-of-new-ilhan-omar-info/835971/133 "2019-06-25T02:40:21Z")
> [@Helmut\_Doork](#): > > If a marriage was illegal and used in some way for financial gain from the govt., I am positive that would be breaking at least a few. …this is a concession that you cannot prove that she did anything wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Helmut\_Doork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e8c25b/32.png) [@Helmut\_Doork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helmut_Doork)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apologies-in-order-to-sdmb-member-in-light-of-new-ilhan-omar-info/835971/134 "2019-06-25T02:42:11Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > **Doork** doesn’t care about any of your shit, **Sage Rat.** His pure heart aches only for the tainted virtue of brother **Shodan.** Divide and conquer! Nice Try! Hasnt worked since the Sykes–Picot Agreement though. ---
**Author:** ![Helmut\_Doork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e8c25b/32.png) [@Helmut\_Doork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helmut_Doork)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apologies-in-order-to-sdmb-member-in-light-of-new-ilhan-omar-info/835971/135 "2019-06-25T02:47:37Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …this is a concession that you cannot prove that she did anything wrong. I cannot, and more important, never said I did! But how many years did I hear after the allegations surfaced that Lance Armstrong was innocent, and anyone saying otherwise was a bitter, jealous, USA hating asshole? How many years until evidence about Watergate surfaced? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apologies-in-order-to-sdmb-member-in-light-of-new-ilhan-omar-info/835971/136 "2019-06-25T02:50:57Z")
> [@Chingon](#): > > Hey don’t forget your cross… I only know two things about Omar: 1. That she isn’t favorable to Israel (possibly for mildly racist reasons). I have no objection to the idea that there’s one person in Congress who would represent anti-Israeli ideology. I’m not favorable to it being predicated on racism (if it is) but, so long as she makes reasonable arguments and uses facts to support them, that’s probably a good thing to have someone making anti-Israeli arguments in Congress. It shouldn’t be only and universally pro-Israel, even if it is generally better to be pro-Israel than most of the alternatives. 2. The she is young and represents a large segment of the population which previously had no representation. That’s good. Congress needs more young, female, and non-caucasian members. I doubt that I agree with practically any of her politics, but I genuinely don’t know what they are nor care since I would prefer that we had more views in Congress overall rather than monolithic wholes and it is more likely that she’s going to have a different view than most other Democrats based on her history. I’d rather have her in Congress than not. If she is removed from Congress and from the country, for visa fraud, that will be a loss to the country and a shame, since it will likely make it a little bit harder for others to follow the same path and push things back towards all male and all white. But, fundamentally, the purpose of the government is to create and enforce law. And there’s definitely no ambiguity whether you’re breaking the law if you lie on a visa application form, on a marriage application, or on a divorce application. If your instinct is to behave unethically and try to abuse the system, in the belief that you won’t get caught, then you are not fit for the job and you are probably not a person who can be trusted to act according to the needs of the country rather than in accordance with personal enrichment. Overall, I would hope that she is innocent. But, on the weight of the available evidence, she is probably guilty of something. Probably not something super problematic, but probably something large enough that it would be fair for her to be removed from the country. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apologies-in-order-to-sdmb-member-in-light-of-new-ilhan-omar-info/835971/137 "2019-06-25T02:55:39Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > It is almost certainly true that the hope of the right is to insinuate incest. > > The evidence doesn’t support that. > > More importantly, **Helmut Doork** made it clear that he was NOT insinuating incest and made it clear exactly what allegation he was backing. > > You have yelled at him for doing something that he was not doing - or at least not in the comment that you have quoted. You’re being dumb here. **This entire fucking thread** was started to defend a poster who claimed the incest argument. It doesn’t matter if he’s later claimed that wasn’t his purpose. The very existence of this thread shows that he wants to defend this aspect. Unfortunately, his “proof” is that a “liberal newspaper” has reported on the story. He _deceptively_ acts as if this story actually confirmed any of the aspects involved, when it only reports on the existence of the rumors. So even if it turned out that any of this stuff was true, it would be entirely irrelevant to this thread. It wouldn’t change the fact that the OP was trying to pull one over on people. He didn’t actually have the evidence he claimed to have, yet came in here demanding we apologize. Oh, and just FYI, if she did marry her brother, it still wouldn’t be anything wrong.Any government restrictions are illegitimate, same as with SSM. What part of “marriage is a right between two consenting adults, no matter what the reason” do people not get? Hell, if she did commit incest, why the fuck would I care if they were both adults? ---
**Author:** ![Helmut\_Doork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e8c25b/32.png) [@Helmut\_Doork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helmut_Doork)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apologies-in-order-to-sdmb-member-in-light-of-new-ilhan-omar-info/835971/138 "2019-06-25T03:01:03Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > 1. The she is young and represents a large segment of the population which previously had no representation. That’s good. Congress needs more young, female, and non-caucasian members. Exactly, but if there are things in her past that can allow those on the right to make her out to not have the best interest of the US at heart, someone else needs to take her place, if laws were broken. there is a reason Jackie Robinson was chose over Josh Gibson, Rosa Parks over Claudette Colvin, similar here IMO- need someone above reproach, like AOC is for the Hispanic community. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apologies-in-order-to-sdmb-member-in-light-of-new-ilhan-omar-info/835971/139 "2019-06-25T03:05:50Z")
> [@Helmut\_Doork](#): > > Exactly, but if there are things in her past that can allow those on the right to make her out to not have the best interest of the US at heart, someone else needs to take her place, if laws were broken. there is a reason Jackie Robinson was chose over Josh Gibson, Rosa Parks over Claudette Colvin, similar here IMO- need someone above reproach, like AOC is for the Hispanic community. I don’t feel like digging into you to decide whether or not your intentions are honest, so I’m trusting the others that they were not. Please do not not use me as a foundation for your positions. You may well have had wonderful and unimpeachable intentions, so I am sorry if you don’t deserve being distrusted. But, part of earning trust is figuring out how to state your mind in a way that leaves no room for doubt. Practice. ---
**Author:** ![Helmut\_Doork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e8c25b/32.png) [@Helmut\_Doork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helmut_Doork)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apologies-in-order-to-sdmb-member-in-light-of-new-ilhan-omar-info/835971/140 "2019-06-25T03:14:38Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > You’re being dumb here. **This entire fucking thread** was started to defend a poster who claimed the incest argument. It doesn’t matter if he’s later claimed that wasn’t his purpose. The very existence of this thread shows that he wants to defend this aspect. > > So even if it turned out that any of this stuff was true, it would be entirely irrelevant to this thread. It wouldn’t change the fact that the OP was trying to pull one over on people. He didn’t actually have the evidence he claimed to have, yet came in here demanding we apologize. > > Oh, and just FYI, if she did marry her brother, it still wouldn’t be anything wrong.Any government restrictions are illegitimate, same as with SSM. What part of “marriage is a right between two consenting adults, no matter what the reason” do people not get? Hell, if she did commit incest, why the fuck would I care if they were both adults? You may not care, but I am guessing the voting USA public would, and would probably not re-elect a siting congresswoman carrying on a sexual relationship with her brother, just a hunch, no facts to cite. And the bit about the original GD thread claimed incest? The moat egregious lie in this thread. Not a single hint of a mention of incest in the GD thread. Period. Not one. And you know this. So you are exposed as a liar and I dont interact with liars, so I will end this now, liar. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apologies-in-order-to-sdmb-member-in-light-of-new-ilhan-omar-info/835971.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apologies-in-order-to-sdmb-member-in-light-of-new-ilhan-omar-info/835971.md?page=8)