# Appalling board performance **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [September 30, 2009, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appalling-board-performance/512112 "2009-09-30T15:57:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appalling-board-performance/512112/41 "2009-10-04T03:28:21Z")
That is the correct address. ---
**Author:** ![NineToTheSky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5a626/32.png) [@NineToTheSky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NineToTheSky)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appalling-board-performance/512112/42 "2009-10-04T10:33:01Z")
I have sent the following email to Ed Zotti: > [@](#): > > There is a thread in ABTM called ‘Appalling board performance’ where many users are saying that the board really isn’t working properly. I have problems daily. It is far worse than I have come across here before. It is the only board that I frequent that has problems. > > TubaDiva has said: > 'We haven’t said anything because we have had no information to give you. > > The staff is very much aware of the problem – we use the board as much or perhaps even more than most people because we need to read so much here. We’re as frustrated and unhappy about it as you are. > > Ed and Jerry have been made aware of the situation. We’re waiting for information/answers ourselves. When we get something that we can share of course we’ll pass it on.’ > > Please could you inform us that you are aware of the problems, what is being done to rectify them, and when you hope to have them resolved. > > Regards > NineToTheSky ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appalling-board-performance/512112/43 "2009-10-04T12:31:40Z")
I’ve just posted this analogy in another thread, but it perhaps bears repeating. Mods and admins are like the ushers at a movie theatre. We’re there to clean up, to keep the audience from getting rowdy, and not to let insurance salesmen interrupt the movie to tell you that they have a wonderful Nigerian insurance policy you should hear about. When you have complaints about the cleanliness of the theatre or the rowdiness level of the audience, you can let us know. When you have complaints that the film is out of focus, we can pass it up to the projectionist, but we don’t have access to projection booth. When you have complaints about the ticket prices, about the quality of the popcorn, about the films being selected… all we can do is pass those comments along to managment. In some cases, management has told us not to discuss that topic, and so we’re obliged to be silent. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appalling-board-performance/512112/44 "2009-10-04T12:57:35Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > I’ve just posted this analogy in another thread, but it perhaps bears repeating. Mods and admins are like the ushers at a movie theatre. We’re there to clean up, to keep the audience from getting rowdy, and not to let insurance salesmen interrupt the movie to tell you that they have a wonderful Nigerian insurance policy you should hear about. When you have complaints about the cleanliness of the theatre or the rowdiness level of the audience, you can let us know. When you have complaints that the film is out of focus, we can pass it up to the projectionist, but we don’t have access to projection booth. When you have complaints about the ticket prices, about the quality of the popcorn, about the films being selected… all we can do is pass those comments along to managment. In some cases, management has told us not to discuss that topic, and so we’re obliged to be silent. I understand how the system works and what mods and admins are responsible for. It is unfortunate that upper management don’t seem to respond quickly (or even at all sometimes) to user requests and complaints. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appalling-board-performance/512112/45 "2009-10-04T14:44:56Z")
Testing. EDIT: Ah ha, I’m back. I’ve been blocked from the Board for over 24 hours. It wouldn’t even let me read it at all this time. Thanks for the replies, Tuba and others. Even a note to say there’s no news is good news when you’re wondering what’s going on. I hope this gets fixed soon. ---
**Author:** ![Hunter\_Hawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/50afbb/32.png) [@Hunter\_Hawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hunter_Hawk)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appalling-board-performance/512112/46 "2009-10-04T14:48:13Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > You have to understand who’s who on this board in terms of hierarchy. Yes, I understand who’s who in terms of hierarchy; trust me, the mods and admins have repeated it enough times over the years. However, the fact that they’ve _had_ to repeat it so many times is an indication that the system doesn’t work. So let’s brainstorm this in terms of metrics that peons or administrators might have access to: -How many customer requests and/or complaints have been received? Passed up the line? What are the different types of requests/complaints that have been received? Has this volume changed over time? Has the number of issues:users changed over time? Has the number of more severe issues changed over time? Have the changes been gradual or more sudden? If the changes have been sudden, are there any backend or administrative changes correlated with reports from customers? -How many issues that have been passed up the line have been resolved? What is the severity of issues that have been resolved vs. not resolved? -What is the time-to-resolution for various types of issues? -How has the number of subscribers changed over time? -How has the number of posts by subscribers changed over time? -How has the number of guests (and posts by guests) changed over time? -How many subscribers have let their membership lapse to become guests? -Have the usage patterns by long-term users changed? (i.e., does it look like long-term users are leaving?) -Has the number of pageviews changed over time? -Etc. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appalling-board-performance/512112/47 "2009-10-04T15:28:49Z")
Maybe (and maybe not) speaking on behalf of others, Dex, I think the thing is that we know the hierarchy and structure of the mod/admin thing. I think a better analogy than the theater one is a high school one. The mods are like hall monitors. The admins are like deans, assistant principals, and in Tuba’s case, the principal. Ed is like the school superintendent, and he answers to the school board (which is the corporate board). Anyway, however you put it, we pretty much understand the thing. You have to pass the complaints up the line. That’s cool. But here’s the issue: what we don’t know is, how much (or how frequently) and how insistently are your doing the passing? Is it like, “Hey, people are fed up with poor performance,” and then you’re told, “Okay, got it.” And then do you repeat the complaints numerous times, or are you told at some point, “Look, I get it already. Just shut up about it.”? Does the passing upline then stall? Are you forbidden from mentioning it again? Or are you allowed to remind Ed (or whoever it is) over and over and over if necessary? And if so, do you (y’all — the admins, and maybe the mods) do this? Do you go, “Hey, Ed. This is the fifth time in two weeks that I’ve told you about what the members are saying. RESPOND to them.”? Or would that get you canned? Look. You say you don’t know what’s going on in Ed’s head. That’s understandable. But then, neither do we. If we use your theater analogy, keep in mind that we either (1) have paid for our tickets, or (2) have to watch 15 minutes of ads before the movie. Or to use the school analogy, this is a private school, and we have either (1) paid tuition, or (2) received scholarships and grants from sponsors whose advertisements we display everywhere. Somehow, the membership is always left out of these hierarchy lists. It seems like we’re at the bottom, when we should be at the top — above Ed, and above the board. No one does business the way y’all do. We realize it’s a private company, but we aren’t asking to see the books. We’re asking for good service, and for a reasonable explanation of why it sucks and what will be done about it. To steal a phrase, we are not potted plants. We are not here because YOU are here; rather, you are here because WE are here. I hope that helps your understanding of our point of view. At least, it’s that way for some of us. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appalling-board-performance/512112/48 "2009-10-04T17:52:29Z")
Recently I have gotten the database error message at least once every time I’m here. In addition, often when I search for new posts, I immediately get the message that says I can search only once every 300 seconds, even though no results were returned. ---
**Author:** ![NineToTheSky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5a626/32.png) [@NineToTheSky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NineToTheSky)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appalling-board-performance/512112/49 "2009-10-04T17:58:28Z")
> [@susan](#): > > Recently I have gotten the database error message at least once every time I’m here. In addition, often when I search for new posts, I immediately get the message that says I can search only once every 300 seconds, even though no results were returned. You expect results as well as a search every 300 seconds? Come on now, don’t be greedy. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appalling-board-performance/512112/50 "2009-10-04T18:10:53Z")
> [@susan](#): > > Recently I have gotten the database error message at least once every time I’m here. In addition, often when I search for new posts, I immediately get the message that says I can search only once every 300 seconds, even though no results were returned. Perhaps that can be explained (if I understand you right) by knowing that the request for a search (which includes the new posts search as well as custom ones) counts as a search regardless of what results are returned. Start any kind of search, you’ve used up your tokens for 300 seconds before the search actually begins. Results, errors, whatever, come later. Obviouly it would be better if the search counted only if completed and/or brought back meaningful results, but that’s probably a vBulletin programming issue, not SDMB. > [@C K Dester Haven](#): > > In some cases, management has told us not to discuss that topic, and so we’re obliged to be silent. Is that the case here? ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appalling-board-performance/512112/51 "2009-10-04T18:16:36Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > To steal a phrase, we are not potted plants. Well, some of us. Aren’t plants, that is. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2009, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appalling-board-performance/512112/52 "2009-10-05T02:44:27Z")
Sure. But when it happens a few times a week, it’s an error engine, not a search engine. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2009, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appalling-board-performance/512112/53 "2009-10-05T04:13:11Z")
Board still crapping out on me. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2009, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appalling-board-performance/512112/54 "2009-10-05T12:59:36Z")
**Liberal** : No, the analogy to school hall monitors and principals assigns WAY too much power to the admins. More like mods as ushers, and admins as ushers with keys to the locked cabinet where the cleaning supplies are kept. 😃 **Musicat** : No, we have not been told to be silent about this topic, that’s why we’re posting here. However, as noted earlier, there’s not much we can do other than bring this to management attention. **HunterHawk** : Many of your questions are those about which we HAVE been told to keep silent. This is a privately-held business, and information about numbers of customers, patterns of purchase, etc. we (mods) have been told often by management is not public information. (Could you walk into the mom-and-pop grocery store on the corner and demand such information?) We have passed that on, many times. How often we bug management about an issue depends on the issue. Some issues (there’s another thread about Google ads, for instance) have been asked and answered several times; we’ll tell him about it once, but that’s about it. No point in pestering him over something that’s already been decided and isn’t about to be re-addressed. We like to save our pestering for issues that have some chance of being addressed. “Managing your boss” is an art. Board performance is a topic that has been brought up continually. We bring it up every opportunity we can. Management are aware of it. Jerry, the Tech God, is aware of the problems. However, he also has to manage every other computer/program at the READER, and his boss (not Ed) determines his priorities. Ed is also well aware of this problem. > [@glee](#): > > It is unfortunate that upper management don’t seem to respond quickly (or even at all sometimes) to user requests and complaints. This is a sentiment that every one of the mods and admins agree with wholeheartedly. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2009, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appalling-board-performance/512112/55 "2009-10-05T14:26:15Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > Board performance is a topic that has been brought up continually. We bring it up every opportunity we can. Management are aware of it. That’s what I was really wondering: whether you bring up board performance once and then are told to shut up about it, or if you bring it up repeatedly. Apparently, you bring it up at “every opportunity”. That’s all anyone could ask, really. Of you, I mean. Of those to whom you repeatedly bring it up, however, there is much more to ask. Like a response, for example. And not “we’re aware of the problem yada-yada”. That’s not a sufficient response. You have already told us that they are aware of the problem. And so, we know that. The response I think most people are waiting for would answer the following: [ul] [li]What is the problem?[/li][li]Why haven’t you fixed it?[/li][li]Do you intend to fix it and when?[/li][/ul] It would also be nice to know whether they are aware of Seven’s offer, and whether they actually _understand_ it. For example, **it does not require any actual user or company data** (as Tuba seems to have thought when she closed the Seven thread.) If they do indeed understand the offer, then rejection of it can only mean that they don’t care about the board’s performance. After all, he isn’t offering to change anything about the company’s server or database. He is offering merely to _analyze_ it. If a professional interior designer said he wanted to come into my house and change everything for free, I would balk even though it’s free. But if he said he only wanted to produce a drawing of my house and recommend changes for free, then I would be an idiot to refuse him. Wouldn’t I? ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2009, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appalling-board-performance/512112/56 "2009-10-05T15:59:59Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > If a professional interior designer said he wanted to come into my house and change everything for free, I would balk even though it’s free. But if he said he only wanted to produce a drawing of my house and recommend changes for free, then I would be an idiot to refuse him. Wouldn’t I? I wouldn’t let one of those people in my house for love or money. ---
**Author:** ![TubaDiva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tubadiva/32/507_2.png) [@TubaDiva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TubaDiva)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2009, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appalling-board-performance/512112/57 "2009-10-05T18:06:25Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > That’s what I was really wondering: whether you bring up board performance once and then are told to shut up about it, or if you bring it up repeatedly. Apparently, you bring it up at “every opportunity”. That’s all anyone could ask, really. Of you, I mean. > > Of those to whom you repeatedly bring it up, however, there is much more to ask. Like a response, for example. And not “we’re aware of the problem yada-yada”. That’s not a sufficient response. You have already told us that they are aware of the problem. And so, we know that. > > The response I think most people are waiting for would answer the following: > > [ul] > [li]What is the problem?[/li][li]Why haven’t you fixed it?[/li][li]Do you intend to fix it and when?[/li][/ul] > It would also be nice to know whether they are aware of Seven’s offer, and whether they actually _understand_ it. For example, **it does not require any actual user or company data** (as Tuba seems to have thought when she closed the Seven thread.) If they do indeed understand the offer, then rejection of it can only mean that they don’t care about the board’s performance. After all, he isn’t offering to change anything about the company’s server or database. He is offering merely to _analyze_ it. > > If a professional interior designer said he wanted to come into my house and change everything for free, I would balk even though it’s free. But if he said he only wanted to produce a drawing of my house and recommend changes for free, then I would be an idiot to refuse him. Wouldn’t I? Speculation on your part won’t change the reality of what we’ve told you, which is all that we know. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2009, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appalling-board-performance/512112/58 "2009-10-05T20:15:44Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > Jerry, the Tech God, is aware of the problems. However, he also has to manage every other computer/program at the READER, and his boss (not Ed) determines his priorities. Ed is also well aware of this problem. This is the crux of the problem, isn’t it? The SDMB is not a large enough priority for the Reader to devote the time and money necessary to bring it up to first-class performance. I’m willing to bet that even if the Reader accepted **Seven’s** offer, that any recommendations (and certainly any that required an investment in time/money) would get put in the wish-list file, probably somewhere behind new office furniture. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2009, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appalling-board-performance/512112/59 "2009-10-05T20:26:57Z")
> [@TubaDiva](#): > > Speculation on your part won’t change the reality of what we’ve told you, which is all that we know. I don’t know what speculation you’re talking about. I haven’t speculated about anything. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appalling-board-performance/512112/60 "2009-10-06T01:15:07Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > If a professional interior designer said he wanted to come into my house and change everything for free, I would balk even though it’s free. But if he said he only wanted to produce a drawing of my house and recommend changes for free, then I would be an idiot to refuse him. Wouldn’t I? > [@Liberal](#): > > I don’t know what speculation you’re talking about. I haven’t speculated about anything. While I don’t mean to speak for Jenny, I/me/just me/assume that your were speculating here. You were speculating(that sounds funny if you say the word enough times removed from context) about the PTB being idiots for refusing the offer. Which they haven’t done. And, they haven’t accepted. But, you can safely assume they ARE aware of it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appalling-board-performance/512112.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appalling-board-performance/512112.md?page=4)