# Appalling news article: 8 teen girls charged with 2nd-degree murder in swarming death of man in Toronto **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 20, 2022, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appalling-news-article-8-teen-girls-charged-with-2nd-degree-murder-in-swarming-death-of-man-in-toronto/976870 "2022-12-20T23:35:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2022, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appalling-news-article-8-teen-girls-charged-with-2nd-degree-murder-in-swarming-death-of-man-in-toronto/976870/1 "2022-12-20T23:35:45Z")
I get it, murders happen, but this just stuns me. In Toronto late Saturday/early Sunday, three 13 yr old girls, three 14 yr old girls, and two 16 girls, swarmed and killed a 59 yr old man in downtown Toronto. Apparently they all came from different parts of the city and somehow found each other on some social media. [https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6692698](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6692698) ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2022, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appalling-news-article-8-teen-girls-charged-with-2nd-degree-murder-in-swarming-death-of-man-in-toronto/976870/2 "2022-12-21T02:48:35Z")
It seems there have been more crazy crime stories out of Canada recently, for example: > **[Canadian man, 73, killed 3 men and 2 women with 'semi-auto handgun'](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11553107/5-dead-suspect-killed-Toronto-area-condo-shooting.html)** > > Police have confirmed that an angry condo resident shot dead three men and two women during his rampage - after a five-year feud with the apartment board. > **[How four days of horror unfolded on James Smith Cree Nation, where everyone...](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-saskatchewan-stabbing-james-smith-cree-nation/)** > > The tight-knit Cree community looks back in grief and ahead to forgiveness after 10 people were stabbed to death, and the suspect and his brother also died in Saskatchewan ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2022, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appalling-news-article-8-teen-girls-charged-with-2nd-degree-murder-in-swarming-death-of-man-in-toronto/976870/3 "2022-12-21T07:02:19Z")
I don’t understand why exactly, but one of the most jarring things to me in that story is when Det.-Sgt. Browne referred to the perpetrators as “these young ladies.” ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2022, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appalling-news-article-8-teen-girls-charged-with-2nd-degree-murder-in-swarming-death-of-man-in-toronto/976870/4 "2022-12-22T00:38:58Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > one of the most jarring things to me in that story is when Det.-Sgt. Browne referred to the perpetrators as “these young ladies.” I completely agree though I suspect that it is a combination of laziness and/or autopilot; I’ve also seen male perpetrators referred to as “gentlemen” by the media from time to time. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2022, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appalling-news-article-8-teen-girls-charged-with-2nd-degree-murder-in-swarming-death-of-man-in-toronto/976870/5 "2022-12-22T20:11:15Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > I don’t understand why exactly, but one of the most jarring things to me in that story is when Det.-Sgt. Browne referred to the perpetrators as “these young ladies.” Until judged guilty, it’s appropriate to treat them as ordinary individuals who may or may not have had sufficient cause to do what they did. If their common connection was that the victim had molested them all then, arguably, they had some cause to do what they did even if it’s a horrible and criminal way of going about it - but they’re children, may have been conditioned to a bizarre way of thinking by the man and other adult figures in their life, and might not have appreciated it as such. As it is, it sounds like they wanted the homeless woman’s alcohol and simply got angry at being spurned. That would take them out of the ranks of “ladies”, but the criminal system has to complete its process before we should decide that to be true. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2022, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appalling-news-article-8-teen-girls-charged-with-2nd-degree-murder-in-swarming-death-of-man-in-toronto/976870/6 "2022-12-22T21:22:17Z")
It’s not that I wanted the police officer to call them “these vicious criminals” or anything like that. Partly it’s the anachronistic use of “ladies” instead of “women,” that’s one that I won’t mind seeing the back of. I suppose there’s more to the jarring sensation than that, but it’s hard to put a finger on. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2022, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appalling-news-article-8-teen-girls-charged-with-2nd-degree-murder-in-swarming-death-of-man-in-toronto/976870/7 "2022-12-22T23:33:35Z")
How did they actually kill him? “Swarming” is a little vague. Hitting/kicking him to death? ---
**Author:** ![motu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/motu/32/259_2.png) [@motu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/motu)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2022, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appalling-news-article-8-teen-girls-charged-with-2nd-degree-murder-in-swarming-death-of-man-in-toronto/976870/8 "2022-12-22T23:39:52Z")
He died in the hospital from stab wounds. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2022, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appalling-news-article-8-teen-girls-charged-with-2nd-degree-murder-in-swarming-death-of-man-in-toronto/976870/9 "2022-12-23T23:12:54Z")
[https://asamnews.com/2022/12/22/swarm-attack-homeless-man-dies/](https://asamnews.com/2022/12/22/swarm-attack-homeless-man-dies/) So it started as an attack on the woman because she was Asian? And they killed the friend when he tried to intervene? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2022, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appalling-news-article-8-teen-girls-charged-with-2nd-degree-murder-in-swarming-death-of-man-in-toronto/976870/10 "2022-12-24T00:33:59Z")
I understand they were trying to steal her alcohol. But facts are a bit thin on the ground. I hope they are raised to adult court. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2022, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appalling-news-article-8-teen-girls-charged-with-2nd-degree-murder-in-swarming-death-of-man-in-toronto/976870/11 "2022-12-24T03:01:56Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I hope they are raised to adult court In my gut I fully agree, however, I have no idea from a factual, historical data POV, if that is something that would actually serve a purpose for their age groups. Again, in my gut and notwithstanding any real data I would love to see them employed for the rest of their lives in high Arctic development projects. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appalling-news-article-8-teen-girls-charged-with-2nd-degree-murder-in-swarming-death-of-man-in-toronto/976870/12 "2023-01-13T19:10:31Z")
The man who died was named as Ken Lee, a 59 year old. Still not much info on the 8 girls. Police are looking at similar incidents that night that did not have fatalities. Their court date was supposed to be Dec. 29, but I didn’t see any info on if it happened or not. Also no mention if being Asian was a factor in the attack, both Lee and the woman that the girls first harassed were Asian. > **[Police identify Toronto man allegedly stabbed to death by teen girls](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64239686)** > > Ken Lee, 59, was fatally stabbed in Toronto in December, allegedly attacked by eight teenaged girls. The GoFundMe for funeral costs has reached it’s goal, but still open if anyone is interested. > **[Man murdered by 8 teens for protecting his friend, organized by Helen Shum](https://www.gofundme.com/f/man-murdered-by-8-teens-for-protecting-his-friend?qid=54fe287af2bb32578e1b40f33ea2d2c9)** > > Shortly after midnight on December 18th, 2022, Ken Lee was swarmed and m… Helen Shum needs your support for Man murdered by 8 teens for protecting his friend