# Appalling Sanitary Practices of the Middle Ages. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 28, 2019, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appalling-sanitary-practices-of-the-middle-ages/833189 "2019-04-28T20:11:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2019, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appalling-sanitary-practices-of-the-middle-ages/833189/21 "2019-05-02T21:36:07Z")
A remedy for toothache – meaning, a tooth rotting – was to pack pigeon dung over it. Og knows how they got the idea, but from a modern perspective it made sense to increase the rate of decay, to shorten the misery. ---
**Author:** ![excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e8c25b/32.png) [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/excavating_for_a_mind)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2019, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appalling-sanitary-practices-of-the-middle-ages/833189/22 "2019-05-02T23:05:45Z")
> [@Napier](#): > > A remedy for toothache – meaning, a tooth rotting – was to pack pigeon dung over it. Og knows how they got the idea, but from a modern perspective it made sense to increase the rate of decay, to shorten the misery. I would guess it would depend, in part, on the quality of the dung. I mean, with pigeons, it’s probably the same but some shadier shillers out there could have been substituting chicken dung for the pigeon. Hence, the best suppliers were known for “having the good shit”. OK, OK, that one just kind of wrote itself ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2019, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appalling-sanitary-practices-of-the-middle-ages/833189/23 "2019-05-03T11:55:24Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > You know those nice brownstone row houses in places like New York… I thought you were gonna say they started out as “whitestones”. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2019, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appalling-sanitary-practices-of-the-middle-ages/833189/24 "2019-05-03T13:56:39Z")
I’ve read that hygiene in general was very poor back then. Washing oneself was considered unhealthy, and even the wealthy and royalty went around caked in dirt. People carried scented cloths to hold to their noses to fend off the odor. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2019, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appalling-sanitary-practices-of-the-middle-ages/833189/25 "2019-05-03T14:34:31Z")
> [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](#): > > OK, OK, that one just kind of wrote itself Perhaps you should dig deeper. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2019, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appalling-sanitary-practices-of-the-middle-ages/833189/26 "2019-05-03T16:37:00Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > it’s generally agreed that hygiene was in fact vastly superior during the middle-ages than later on. This is surprising and could bear elucidation. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2019, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appalling-sanitary-practices-of-the-middle-ages/833189/27 "2019-05-03T17:14:34Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > This is surprising and could bear elucidation. These articles indicate that regular bathing (and public bathhouses) was actually common in the Middle Ages, but went out of fashion in the sixteenth century. > **[Did people in the Middle Ages take baths? - Medievalists.net](https://www.medievalists.net/2013/04/did-people-in-the-middle-ages-take-baths/)** > > A closer look shows that baths and bathing were actually quite common in the Middle Ages, but in a different way than one might expect. > **[Weird Medieval Bathing Habits | The Vintage News](https://www.thevintagenews.com/2018/08/27/bathing-middle-ages/)** > > It is a relatively common misconception that people in the Middle Ages did not bathe regularly, if at all. However, baths and bathing were, in fact, quite > **[Bathing in the Middle Ages](https://keripeardon.wordpress.com/2012/06/14/bathing-in-the-middle-ages/)** > > I’m not going to name any names, but I read a comment on someone else’s blog that medieval people were dirty and they actually thought that was a good thing. Now, as I was a history maj… ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2019, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appalling-sanitary-practices-of-the-middle-ages/833189/28 "2019-05-03T18:08:43Z")
_" … going down into my cellar to look I stepped into a great heap of turds by which I found that Mr. Turner’s house of office is full and comes into my cellar, which do trouble me, but I shall have it helped."_ Samuel Pepys, _Diary_, 20th October 1660 ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2019, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appalling-sanitary-practices-of-the-middle-ages/833189/29 "2019-05-04T00:31:26Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > I read that men at inns often urinated in the fireplace. I grew up with several guys who would certainly have done that, so I can easily believe it. They were still doing it in Shakespeare’s day… **The Supersizers…** had an episode where Giles & Sue attended a Resotoration (17th centuary) Era dinner party; as was the custom a urinal was brought into the dining room after dinner for the gentlemen’s convience (although IRL the ladies would’ve withdrawn by then). > [@clairobscur](#): > > It’s usually told about Versailles, even though I’d assume that the situation at the Louvre would probably have been similar. > > Well, rather, there were no bathroom at all as far as I can tell. You’d relieve yourself in a chamber pot, close stool or similar. Lacking that, I guess that finding a discreet spot was the only option. > > However, most of the answers refer to a time long after the middle-ages. And it’s generally agreed that hygiene was in fact vastly superior during the middle-ages than later on. As late as the 1920s debutantes being presented at Court had to either hold it or use a chamber pot behind a curtain to relieve themselves. Just picture Lady Mary Crawley doing _that_. :eek: Presumably the same applied to other major events with large guest lists. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2019, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appalling-sanitary-practices-of-the-middle-ages/833189/30 "2019-05-04T02:42:01Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > I’ve read that hygiene in general was very poor back then. Washing oneself was considered unhealthy, and even the wealthy and royalty went around caked in dirt. People carried scented cloths to hold to their noses to fend off the odor. That’s not the middle ages. Rather the classical era. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2019, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appalling-sanitary-practices-of-the-middle-ages/833189/31 "2019-05-04T02:55:00Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > This is surprising and could bear elucidation. Bathing was a normal practice during the middle ages. Later on, it was discouraged for both moral and medical reasons. Taking care of your body was vain, and water could penetrate your skin and make you ill. Public bathhouses that used to be common, were closed, seen by the church (not always without reason) as places of debauchery. Personal hygiene was probably at its worst during the XVI°-XVII° centuries. Louis XIV, for instance, was only taking a bath on medical advice, and it is said that he took only a handful in his whole (long) life. Versailles is described as filthy by non-European ambassadors. People began to bath again only during the second part of the XVIII° century. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2019, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appalling-sanitary-practices-of-the-middle-ages/833189/32 "2019-05-04T03:08:01Z")
After checking, I read that the story according to which Louis XIV never bathed is a legend, and that in fact, he enjoyed bathing, in bath houses during his youth, in rivers during summer and in a bathroom he had installed during his old age. On the other hand, the article seems to imply that he was about the only one doing so at Versailles. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2019, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appalling-sanitary-practices-of-the-middle-ages/833189/33 "2019-05-04T03:23:14Z")
Yet another source states that he indeed only took baths when prescribed by his physician, except for these river baths he enjoyed. It also mentions, that out of fear of illness, babies and young children, deemed too susceptible to disease, weren’t bathed during their first years, typically not before they were 7. It mentions that it is known that Louis XIII (Louis XIV father) lower body was washed for the first time when he was 6 (people used rubbed pieces of cloth and such to remove dirt, so I would assume also to clean babies’ shit) ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2019, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appalling-sanitary-practices-of-the-middle-ages/833189/34 "2019-05-04T12:18:45Z")
I appreciate you double checking things, **clairobscur**! I know this is IMHO and not GQ, but most people are just repeating vague things they remember hearing (whether or not it’s even supposed to be related to the Middle Ages. Had no idea brownstones in New York City were that old! :p). There are a lot of myths and urban legends (for lack of a better term) about historical hygiene and this thread mostly helps reinforce them. ---
**Author:** ![TSBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TSBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TSBG)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2019, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appalling-sanitary-practices-of-the-middle-ages/833189/35 "2019-05-04T14:57:16Z")
There were communal baths in the Middle Ages, but if I’m remembering right, home bathing declined. The post-Romans just lost the craft of maintaining the plumbing they inherited, as well as facilities like the hypocaust. My source for that is the Tides of History podcast, so it’s not easy for me to double check, but perhaps someone else can confirm. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2019, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appalling-sanitary-practices-of-the-middle-ages/833189/36 "2019-05-04T19:47:01Z")
Keep in mind that during much of history people did not have indoor plumbing. That mean if you wanted a bath someone (maybe you, maybe a servant if you had any) had to haul a crap-ton of water and if you wanted it _warm_ then you also had to heat it up. This had a lot to do with why daily bathing wasn’t a thing unless you lived in someplace like Ancient Rome, where there were public baths not requiring you to haul water and it was heated for you. Even in Ancient Roman times most people in the world didn’t live in Rome (which might be why a lot of smaller Roman cities and towns also went to the bother of constructing public baths). Add in the cold of winter (which might also include the difficulty of chopping through ice to get to the water in a lake or river) and even less bathing would happen. So there were practical reasons why people didn’t bathe daily, or even weekly. Then they get used to infrequent bathing, and if it’s all you know, well, everyone else smells more or less the same with more or less the same level of cleanliness/grime and it all seems normal. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2019, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appalling-sanitary-practices-of-the-middle-ages/833189/37 "2019-05-04T23:04:17Z")
> [@Jim\_B](#): > > (I actually tried submitting this question to [Quora.com](http://Quora.com). But they flagged it for being incomplete for some reason. What? You mean you couldn’t fully state your query in two sentences? Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2019, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appalling-sanitary-practices-of-the-middle-ages/833189/38 "2019-05-05T00:40:59Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > And it’s generally agreed that hygiene was in fact vastly superior during the middle-ages than later on. Although, it [may have](https://www.businessinsider.com/how-often-should-you-shower-science-2017-1) come [too far](https://www.thealternativedaily.com/dangers-washing-can-clean/) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appalling-sanitary-practices-of-the-middle-ages/833189.md?page=1)