# Apparent nuclear fusion power breakthrough -- net energy gain (breaking news 11 Dec 22) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** breaking-news, science-math\ **Created:** [December 11, 2022, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparent-nuclear-fusion-power-breakthrough-net-energy-gain-breaking-news-11-dec-22/976349 "2022-12-11T22:43:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![xtenkfarpl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/c2a13f/32.png) [@xtenkfarpl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xtenkfarpl)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2023, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparent-nuclear-fusion-power-breakthrough-net-energy-gain-breaking-news-11-dec-22/976349/161 "2023-12-23T16:35:17Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > Thus, Kelvin must be absolved of an error made by other colleagues of his. Six years earlier, Albert Michelson —whose famous experiment with Edward Morley refuted the existence of the luminiferous ether— said at the inauguration of the Ryerson Physics Laboratory at the University of Chicago that the great principles had already been discovered, and that physics would henceforth be limited to finding truths in the sixth decimal place. Ah, it’s one of those often mis-attributed sayings then. Rather ironic if it was indeed Michaelson, since the Michaelson-Morely experiment had already been done, in 1887. Putting the nail into the coffin of the luminiferous ether & paving the way for special relativity… ---
**Author:** ![xtenkfarpl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/c2a13f/32.png) [@xtenkfarpl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xtenkfarpl)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2023, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparent-nuclear-fusion-power-breakthrough-net-energy-gain-breaking-news-11-dec-22/976349/162 "2023-12-23T19:43:52Z")
> [@abcdefghij](#): > > > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > > > AI research investment in the last couple of years has been in the tens of billions, and is expected to reach $200 billion globally by 2025. > > I thought we were trying to convince @xtenkfarpl that research funding _wasn’t_ all going to “crackpots” and “tinfoil hat woo-woos” Wow, this sort of spins into a couple of directions? It’s not me you need to convince! First, I’m absolutely in favor of fundemental research. Better that than $600 toilet seats! And historically, it usually seems to pay off sooner or later in useful technology. As for more fringe things… I guess we have to heed the maxim “It’s important to keep an open mind, but not so open that your brains fall out”. Lots of crackpots like to claim that some real science was once regarded as dreamer’s nonsense. Unfortunately, for every Wegener, there are probably hundreds of (maybe even sincere, but ill informed) people who claim that their “new Theory” proves Einstein was wrong… So who do you fund? Of course an actual experiment is really the only way to go. As for AI… not sure if I’m reading @abcdefghij correctly? Was the implication that AI is ‘woo woo’? Not at all, of course, It’s producing scary good results. I’m not sure if you would call it an actual breakthrough: it looks to me as if it is essentially a super-massive scaleup of trigrams with enormous computing power and storage thrown at it? But perhaps to the point where emergent behaviour starts to emerge from sufficient complexity? ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2023, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparent-nuclear-fusion-power-breakthrough-net-energy-gain-breaking-news-11-dec-22/976349/163 "2023-12-24T04:24:41Z")
> [@xtenkfarpl](#): > > Putting the nail into the coffin of the luminiferous ether (The following is a reference to White Wolf’s Old World Of Darkness.) Greyfaced Rat Bastards! But quantum mechanics and dark matter are OUR work and we’ll see who has the last laugh! ---
**Author:** ![peccavi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peccavi/32/388_2.png) [@peccavi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peccavi)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2023, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparent-nuclear-fusion-power-breakthrough-net-energy-gain-breaking-news-11-dec-22/976349/164 "2023-12-24T04:57:41Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > Greyfaced Rat Bastards! But quantum mechanics and dark matter are OUR work and we’ll see who has the last laugh! _Sind sie spinne oder schlange?_ ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2023, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparent-nuclear-fusion-power-breakthrough-net-energy-gain-breaking-news-11-dec-22/976349/165 "2023-12-24T05:00:00Z")
> [@peccavi](#): > > Sind sie spinne oder schlange Please keep it in English or provide a translation with it. ---
**Author:** ![abcdefghij](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/43a26b/32.png) [@abcdefghij](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/abcdefghij)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2023, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparent-nuclear-fusion-power-breakthrough-net-energy-gain-breaking-news-11-dec-22/976349/166 "2023-12-24T05:23:19Z")
> [@xtenkfarpl](#): > > As for AI… not sure if I’m reading @abcdefghij correctly? Was the implication that AI is ‘woo woo’? > Not at all, of course, It’s producing scary good results. > I’m not sure if you would call it an actual breakthrough: it looks to me as if it is essentially a super-massive scaleup of trigrams with enormous computing power and storage thrown at it? > But perhaps to the point where emergent behaviour starts to emerge from sufficient complexity? I was being flippant, but taking Sam\_Stone’s and Ruken’s numbers at face value, the notion of spending on AI the equivalent of the entirety of the Basic and Applied R&D expenditures screams of hype cycle. Yes, a lot is impressive, but a lot is just stupid, and much of the rest is glorified curve fitting with no underlying intelligible model. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2023, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparent-nuclear-fusion-power-breakthrough-net-energy-gain-breaking-news-11-dec-22/976349/167 "2023-12-24T13:24:43Z")
Sounds like something out of Fritz Leiber “Change War” stories… ---
**Author:** ![peccavi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peccavi/32/388_2.png) [@peccavi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peccavi)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2023, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparent-nuclear-fusion-power-breakthrough-net-energy-gain-breaking-news-11-dec-22/976349/168 "2023-12-24T14:05:27Z")
Yup. If you’re ever walking in a dark alley and hear this from the shadows, think carefully about your reply… ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2023, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparent-nuclear-fusion-power-breakthrough-net-energy-gain-breaking-news-11-dec-22/976349/169 "2023-12-24T14:14:31Z")
“Are you Spider or Snake?” - the two sides in the Change War stories by Fritz Leiber. ---
**Author:** ![xtenkfarpl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/c2a13f/32.png) [@xtenkfarpl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xtenkfarpl)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2023, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparent-nuclear-fusion-power-breakthrough-net-energy-gain-breaking-news-11-dec-22/976349/170 "2023-12-24T14:41:52Z")
> [@abcdefghij](#): > > the notion of spending on AI the equivalent of the entirety of the Basic and Applied R&D expenditures screams of hype cycle Yes, there does seem to be a bandwagon going on here. There are fashions in these things, of course: remember when Catastrope Theory was going to be the key to everything? ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2023, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparent-nuclear-fusion-power-breakthrough-net-energy-gain-breaking-news-11-dec-22/976349/171 "2023-12-24T14:46:19Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > Greyfaced Rat Bastards! But quantum mechanics and dark matter are OUR work and we’ll see who has the last laugh! Often followed by “Fools! I’ll destroy them all!” ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2023, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparent-nuclear-fusion-power-breakthrough-net-energy-gain-breaking-news-11-dec-22/976349/172 "2023-12-24T14:56:03Z")
A common mistake. But we Sons Of Ether love humanity and are working for a better brighter world. ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2024, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparent-nuclear-fusion-power-breakthrough-net-energy-gain-breaking-news-11-dec-22/976349/173 "2024-05-03T16:36:15Z")
2.2 seconds of high confinement and plasma density: > **[Two seconds of hope for fusion power](https://arstechnica.com/science/2024/05/two-seconds-of-hope-for-fusion-power/)** > > A fusion reactor in San Diego surpasses a limit on plasma density. Brian [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparent-nuclear-fusion-power-breakthrough-net-energy-gain-breaking-news-11-dec-22/976349.md?page=8)