# Apparent retaliation in statue teardowns **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 6, 2020, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparent-retaliation-in-statue-teardowns/914472 "2020-07-06T12:20:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2020, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparent-retaliation-in-statue-teardowns/914472/1 "2020-07-06T12:20:21Z")
> **[Frederick Douglass statue torn down in N.Y. park](https://www.oregonlive.com/nation/2020/07/frederick-douglass-statue-torn-down-in-ny-park.html)** > > A statue of abolitionist Frederick Douglass was ripped from its base in Rochester on the anniversary of one of his most famous speeches, delivered in that city in 1852. There was an earlier case where a statue of an abolitionist was torn down in Wisconsin. I don’t know if that was retaliation or a mistake by BLM protestors. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2020, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparent-retaliation-in-statue-teardowns/914472/2 "2020-07-06T12:57:33Z")
Someone black faced [Admiral Nelson](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-norfolk-53308329) in Norwitch. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparent-retaliation-in-statue-teardowns/914472/3 "2020-07-07T08:33:26Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > There was an earlier case where a statue of an abolitionist was torn down in Wisconsin. I don’t know if that was retaliation or a mistake by BLM protestors. In Madison, Wisconsin that was a statute of abolitionist [Hans Christian Heg](https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/local/wisconsin/2020/06/24/hans-christian-hegs-abolitionist-statue-toppled-madison-what-know/3248692001/) who fought for the Union and died from wounds received in combat in the US Civil War. The statute was torn down by protesters. It was apparently the act of [BLM protesters](https://www.channel3000.com/protesters-explain-why-they-tore-down-statues-at-state-capitol/) upset at the arrest of a black man who entered a restaurant will a bullhorn and created a disturbance. It is not clear who torn down the Frederick Douglass statute in Rochester, NY. No one has claimed responsibility according to police. Douglass was a great orator and former slave who campaigned for abolitionist causes. He lived in Rochester for many years and the statue was one of 13 placed around the city a few years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparent-retaliation-in-statue-teardowns/914472/4 "2020-07-07T13:46:42Z")
This is getting out of hand. Won’t somebody think about the pigeons? ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparent-retaliation-in-statue-teardowns/914472/5 "2020-07-07T15:53:48Z")
“We don’t value confederate statues because they represent pro-slavery positions, but because they represent all or our heritage.” Also: “If you take down some [totally not glorifying slavery] statues, we’ll retaliate by tearing down statues honoring those who fought against slavery.” ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparent-retaliation-in-statue-teardowns/914472/6 "2020-07-07T16:35:30Z")
Group A vandalizes statues that Group A doesn’t like. Group B vandalizes statues that Group B doesn’t like. If you make excuses for one, can you oppose the other? ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparent-retaliation-in-statue-teardowns/914472/7 "2020-07-07T17:49:35Z")
The thing is, those Confederate statues are a lot more important to their supporters than those of civil rights pioneers are to theirs. Take away the statues and all you have left is the societal legacies of those movements. Progress and justice for the latter, ignorance and hatred for the former. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparent-retaliation-in-statue-teardowns/914472/8 "2020-07-07T17:58:58Z")
I honestly don’t care if there are _no_ statues of people. I honestly don’t care. Does that make me weird? ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparent-retaliation-in-statue-teardowns/914472/9 "2020-07-07T18:11:39Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > Group A vandalizes statues that Group A doesn’t like. > > Group B vandalizes statues that Group B doesn’t like. > > If you make excuses for one, can you oppose the other? When Group B are racists, yeah, you can excuse one and oppose the other. ---
**Author:** ![VOW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/vow/32/3043_2.png) [@VOW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VOW)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparent-retaliation-in-statue-teardowns/914472/10 "2020-07-07T18:24:57Z")
My mercenary heart wants to know who gets to cart off the deposed statues and take them for recycling. A great many are bronze, and worth more than just a few bucks, ~VOW ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparent-retaliation-in-statue-teardowns/914472/11 "2020-07-07T19:01:42Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > When Group B are racists, yeah, you can excuse one and oppose the other. I submit that Group A is behaving in a racist manner by tearing down Group B statues. Note that my fellow Arkansan Albert Pike did not have a statue in DC because he was a Confederate general (he was), but because of his standing as a Mason. His statue is not in uniform, but wears a civilian suit. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparent-retaliation-in-statue-teardowns/914472/12 "2020-07-07T19:28:51Z")
I wasn’t aware that “Confederate general” was a race. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparent-retaliation-in-statue-teardowns/914472/13 "2020-07-07T19:32:49Z")
Show me a black one. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparent-retaliation-in-statue-teardowns/914472/14 "2020-07-07T19:42:38Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > I wasn’t aware that “Confederate general” was a race. Nor was I. I must learn to not elaborate. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparent-retaliation-in-statue-teardowns/914472/15 "2020-07-07T20:01:50Z")
I honestly don’t get what you’re trying to say. Taking down a statue of a Confederate General, even though the statue was not put up because he was a confederate, is not a racist act. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparent-retaliation-in-statue-teardowns/914472/17 "2020-07-07T20:13:20Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > Group A vandalizes statues that Group A doesn’t like. > > Group B vandalizes statues that Group B doesn’t like. > > If you make excuses for one, can you oppose the other But I’ll put money on that not being the case. I’d be willing to bet it’s: Group A vandalizes statues that Group A doesn’t like. Group B vandalizes statues that Group A likes. Even though Group B pulled down the same statues in both scenarios, in your version, they’re just joining in on the fun, in mine, they’re retaliating. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparent-retaliation-in-statue-teardowns/914472/18 "2020-07-07T20:14:07Z")
I have a 18in garden gnome in a flower bed. I laid him on his side in solidarity for the monument puller-downers. not really, me and the Grandwrex were looking for fishing worms ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparent-retaliation-in-statue-teardowns/914472/19 "2020-07-07T20:20:44Z")
I appreciate, to a degree, sensitivity to building names and public statues. I think there is a real danger in rewriting history and being too judgmental of flawed but impressive people who had some unseemly but widespread beliefs. These are more understandable in some cases, and I’m sure some statues would be better relocated and some names should be changed. But there is a missed opportunity for better educating people. Our generation and all generations also have some very significant flaws which may not be seen kindly in the future. And people who do great things are first and foremost people - complex, flawed, driven by contemporary values and still may (or may not) be worthy of commemoration. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparent-retaliation-in-statue-teardowns/914472/20 "2020-07-07T20:26:08Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > Group A vandalizes statues that Group A doesn’t like. > > Group B vandalizes statues that Group B doesn’t like. > > If you make excuses for one, can you oppose the other? When Group A does it publicly, and explains exactly why they’re doing it, and Group B does it secretly, in the dark of night, never takes responsibility, and never explains their reasons, then yes, you can support one and not the other. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparent-retaliation-in-statue-teardowns/914472/21 "2020-07-07T20:41:52Z")
Retaliation isn’t limited to statues. MAGAbots respond to BLM displays with pro-Trump & anti-Hillary slogans: > **[Petition Calls for Renaming Fairlington Bridge Amid Battle Over ‘BLM’ Art |...](https://www.arlnow.com/2020/07/06/petition-calls-for-renaming-fairlington-bridge-amid-battle-over-blm-art/)** > > (Updated at 11:45 p.m.) More than 500 people have signed a petition calling for the S. Abingdon Street bridge over I-395 to be renamed "Black Lives Matter Bridge." The petition was created amid dueling efforts to place and remove the letters "BLM" on... [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparent-retaliation-in-statue-teardowns/914472.md?page=2)