# Apparently, almost all Dopers are eligible for Mensa **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 3, 2003, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-almost-all-dopers-are-eligible-for-mensa/185953 "2003-07-03T04:53:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![cuauhtemoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecb155/32.png) [@cuauhtemoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cuauhtemoc)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-almost-all-dopers-are-eligible-for-mensa/185953/41 "2003-07-03T13:35:10Z")
Oh, and I was given an IQ test twice when I was in third or fourth grade. I don’t remember the numbers, the reports are probably in storage at my mom’s somewhere, but I do distinctly remember being surprised that there was a sixty-point difference between the two scores. This doesn’t speak well of something that’s supposed to be a _standardized_ test, does it? At any rate, it was more than enough to convince not to ever take an IQ measurement seriously. Maybe it’s useful for something, but it’s certainly not a criterion I’m going to use in choosing my friends. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-almost-all-dopers-are-eligible-for-mensa/185953/42 "2003-07-03T13:41:16Z")
> [@](#): > > Well, I was tested as a child, so I know what that number was. And oddly enough, when I take those ubiquitous Internet IQ tests, it’s around the same result. Ah, but the qualifying score changes with the scaling of each test; a score of 130 on the Wechsler is required to qualify, but one must score 148 on the Cattell test to qualify for membership. What matters is not the raw score, but the percentile level the score places you in. And again, high scores on IQ tests in themselves only tell that a person tests well on IQ tests. And while there’s a great deal of debate about the nature of the quantity that IQ tests evaluate, there’s no doubt in my mind that my propensity to test well has nothing to with genuine intelligence or ability, let alone being a"genius" For me, a genius is not some overweight nerd with a C:/DOS/run t-shirt and an unhealthy amount of Janeway/Seven of 9 slash fanfic. Genius is a six-year-old Mozart composing a symphony; 16-year-old Niels Abel giving a proof of the binomial theorem valid for all numbers, not just the rational set; three-year-old John Stuart Mill construing Greek verbs. In addition, our society tends to reward some types of intelligence more than others. I have a certain facility with words and numbers, so society is willing to call me intelligent, but a man who can tell what’s wrong with a car just by hearing the motor is just called a good mechanic, though his talent is no less impressive than mine. If anything demonstrates the illusory nature of so-called intelligence, Mensa has special interest groups that study Scientology, astrology, fundamentalist creationism, numerology, and other paranormal rubbish that truly intelligent people ought to reject. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-almost-all-dopers-are-eligible-for-mensa/185953/43 "2003-07-03T13:47:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*Ah, but the qualifying score changes with the scaling of each test; a score of 130 on the Wechsler is required to qualify, but one must score 148 on the Cattell test to qualify for membership. What matters is not the raw score, but the percentile level the score places you in. > > And again, high scores on IQ tests in themselves only tell that a person tests well on IQ tests. And while there’s a great deal of debate about the nature of the quantity that IQ tests evaluate, there’s no doubt in my mind that my propensity to test well has nothing to with genuine intelligence or ability, let alone being a"genius" > \*\* I don’t place any stock in the online tests anyway. I’ve taken a few on a lark, and I dismiss the ones in which I rank low. Quite frankly, I don’t care too much about what my IQ is. It’s not as if I could get a job based on that one test result. It’s not as if people would suddenly give me a ton of cash based on that one test result. And women won’t throw themselves at my feet based on that one test result. I accept that I am average about most things and below average in many others, and if I were to take some reputable IQ test right now and received a mark of, e.g., 150, I wouldn’t pay it much heed. It won’t get me anywhere, and as has been stated many times, it’s largely irrelevant to one’s intelligence, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-almost-all-dopers-are-eligible-for-mensa/185953/44 "2003-07-03T13:55:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dantheman \* > \*\*And women won’t throw themselves at my feet based on that one test result. \*\* You’ve been taking the wrong test, mate. ---
**Author:** ![whiterabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/cab0a1/32.png) [@whiterabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whiterabbit)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-almost-all-dopers-are-eligible-for-mensa/185953/45 "2003-07-03T13:56:19Z")
If I wasn’t so bad at math, I’m sure I could squeak in, but I wouldn’t want to. I tested pretty high as a kid because I was good at math until I hit algebra, but I suspect if I did a real test now I’d come out somewhat lower just because of the math. Oh well. I don’t want to hang around a bunch of people whose only shared fact is a high test score. Yawn. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-almost-all-dopers-are-eligible-for-mensa/185953/46 "2003-07-03T13:56:34Z")
> [@](#): > > The I Don’t Believe In IQ Tests But Here’s My IQ rider. Similar to Post #1, but often tacked onto other types of posts in excruciating detail, citing scientific “fact” that intelligence is untestable while repeating over and over how they did on IQ tests. Well, intelligence is untestable, mostly because no two experts seem able to agree on exactly what IQ tests measure. Moreover, as I said before, raw scores are meaningless because the qualifying score varies from test to test; what matters (if it matters at all) is percentile level. I used to be in Mensa, now I’m not, although I get postcards periodically asking me to rejoin. The thing is, I’d much rather associate with people who don’t give a wet slap about IQ tests, but who are witty, sexy, curious about the world, and good conversationalists. In Mensa, I found most of the members to be self-important bores who spent too much time in political infighting and whining about how nobody appreciated their flaming genius when they were children, even though all that raw talent only got them as far as being insurance salesmen and video store clerks (not to slam those two professions, but one would expect a towering genius to be, you know, an Evil Warlord or something). And I notice with amusement that the last standardized test I took, the LSAT three years ago, I scored a 159, four points shy of the qualifying score of 163, so I’m a former Mensa member and a present Densa member, cool! ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-almost-all-dopers-are-eligible-for-mensa/185953/47 "2003-07-03T13:58:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Priceguy \* > > * * * > > You’ve been taking the wrong test, mate. \*\* Well, I did take another, but it took hours for me to be extricated from the floppy drive. Failed that one, too! ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-almost-all-dopers-are-eligible-for-mensa/185953/48 "2003-07-03T14:08:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RickJay \* > **In one thread I’m too lazy to look up and link to, we had at least 3 posters who claimed to be among the 10,000 smartest humans on the planet, and pretty much everyone else was a genius, and it went on for THREE PAGES. 150 straight posts of “I Am A Rocket Scientist, But I Am So Humble.” One poster actually used the “I was reading at a college level when I was three” line - that is an actual quote - though he later admitted he had just meant he could read out words in a college-level text, not actually comprehend it.** Yeah, that was me. I was kinda hoping you’d forgotten about that, **RickJay**. 😉 I am glad you at least remembered my backpedaling when I sobered up. I could read to you at three about as well as I can read to you now; the difference is now I’ll actually understand what I’m reading. Maybe. I was also the failed out of high school guy (not because of any intelligence I may or may not have, mind you, but in spite of it). I readily admit that the reasons were immaturity, obstinance, and laziness. I guess I still have some residual defensiveness about it, which occasionally manifests itself in drunken claims to childhood genius. At any rate, it’s better to just let people judge how smart you are from your posts. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-almost-all-dopers-are-eligible-for-mensa/185953/49 "2003-07-03T14:13:51Z")
Hello everybody. I’m not eligible for Mensa. I’m officially too stoopid. happier now? ---
**Author:** ![auliya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/90db22/32.png) [@auliya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/auliya)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-almost-all-dopers-are-eligible-for-mensa/185953/50 "2003-07-03T14:20:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*For me, a genius is not some overweight nerd with a C:/DOS/run t-shirt \*\* Well I don’t want to get into the validity or reliability of IQ tests or anything **gobear** , but my 10 yr old ex Mensa member/computer nerd/skinny kid is DESPERATE for one of those T-shirts and wants to know can I buy one or will he have to try and make his own? ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-almost-all-dopers-are-eligible-for-mensa/185953/51 "2003-07-03T14:31:49Z")
Well, if your kid wants one, I know there are merchants that will sell one to you, but IMO A) The humor of the shirt is pretty much lost on a gneration that was not raised on the Dick and Jane books B) Any shirt featured on **The Simpsons** is too mass-market appeal to be really cool. See, IMO, the appeal of a good science t-shirt is that is is obscure enough that only the cognoscenti will understand yet general enough that when you explain it, the inquirer will be impressed rather than pitying. A good example, this t-shirt featuring [Maxwell’s equations](http://www.buy-tees.com/viewt-shirt.asp?tshirtid=4200) ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-almost-all-dopers-are-eligible-for-mensa/185953/52 "2003-07-03T14:58:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cuauhtemoc \* > \*\*I have to say I have a hard time seeing the appeal of such an organization. It’s not as if people who do very well on standardized tests are that much more likely to have anything else in common, is it? > \*\* To each his own, of course. Sometimes the fun of a Mensa gathering is the chance to meet people who are completely different. To me, that’s one of the things that make it so interesting. I’ve met people from all across the U.S., literally from Oregon to Florida, in lines of work from Artist to Zoologist. Someone in the computer field may go to a conference and meet dozens or hundreds of incredibly bright and talented people with whom they can learn a great deal in that field, and that’s fine, but that’s all. Chances are you won’t have a session on orchids, astronomy, paleontology or psychology, or any of the truly whacky types of discussions you’d get at a Mensa gathering. An earlier post mentioned that a fair number of the Mensans encountered seemed to be “losers.” It is true that often a person who is vastly successful in his field is likely to be too busy and involved to even consider membership in such an organization, and doesn’t need it, either. There don’t seem to be a large number of college students, either. IMO college itself should certainly provide all of the opportunities a person would get in Mensa anyway. gobear also said > [@](#): > > In addition, our society tends to reward some types of intelligence more than others. I have a certain facility with words and numbers, so society is willing to call me intelligent, but a man who can tell what’s wrong with a car just by hearing the motor is just called a good mechanic, though his talent is no less impressive than mine. and this is a very good point. IQ tests measure something, although there is vast disagreement on what that is. As I’ve also said before, they definitely don’t measure a long list of qualities that ultimately contribute to “success,” the definition of which also varies widely. Morrigoon: I hope some of this answers some of your question about what Mensa is like. What it’s like varies widely depending on the local group and the specific people you happen to meet. My suggestion would be to go to the [American Mensa](http://www.us.mensa.org/) web site and find out some contacts in your local area. Most local groups are very happy to have a potential member attend a few events to see what it’s like and may give you a couple of free issues of their local newsletter. ---
**Author:** ![cuauhtemoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecb155/32.png) [@cuauhtemoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cuauhtemoc)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-almost-all-dopers-are-eligible-for-mensa/185953/53 "2003-07-03T15:03:39Z")
You’re right, **MLS**. What I should have said was “It’s not as if people who do very well on standardized tests are that much more likely to have compatible personalities.” Of course you don’t only want to meet people who are just like you. But like you said, to each his own. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-almost-all-dopers-are-eligible-for-mensa/185953/54 "2003-07-03T15:23:25Z")
If you view Mensa as merely a social club for the intellectual elite, well, perhaps it is understandable that you consider it of dubious value. Mensa _does_ seem valuable for its business networking possibilities. I am surprised that in their zeal to prove their humility or ideological opposition to intellectual elitism, many posters seem to have overlooked this. Intelligence _often_ correlates with success, even if no clear and necessary relationship exists between them. So it stands to reason that you might be able to drum up a fair number of opportunities if your Mensa chapter isn’t just composed of introverted coders and teenagers playing logic games. Based on non-IQ standardized tests I imagine that I do qualify for Mensa. However, I was also a lazy, antisocial jerk in high school. Take that, **RickJay**. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-almost-all-dopers-are-eligible-for-mensa/185953/55 "2003-07-03T16:17:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pravnik \* > \*\*I was also the failed out of high school guy (not because of any intelligence I may or may not have, mind you, but in spite of it). I readily admit that the reasons were immaturity, obstinance, and laziness. I guess I still have some residual defensiveness about it, which occasionally manifests itself in drunken claims to childhood genius. At any rate, it’s better to just let people judge how smart you are from your posts. \*\* Actually, I did not recall you saying you’d flunked. I was thinking of some other folks on that point. I don’t doubt you’re smart, though. And honest. 🙂 **Maeglin:** Hey, another honest man. 🙂 DISCLAIMER #2: I am as lazy as all get-out. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-almost-all-dopers-are-eligible-for-mensa/185953/56 "2003-07-03T16:20:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RickJay \* > **Actually, I did not recall you saying you’d flunked. I was thinking of some other folks on that point. I don’t doubt you’re smart, though. And honest. 🙂** Thanks. You seem like an honest sort, too, and I’ve been looking for someone I can trust to help me transfer some bank funds out of Nigeria… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-almost-all-dopers-are-eligible-for-mensa/185953/57 "2003-07-03T16:31:08Z")
[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=195105](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=195105) 😛 ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-almost-all-dopers-are-eligible-for-mensa/185953/58 "2003-07-03T17:23:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lel \* > \*\*Fine, but are you eligible for Mensa? \*\* Only dumb people would care about that. ^\_\* ---
**Author:** ![Jaade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dfb087/32.png) [@Jaade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaade)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-almost-all-dopers-are-eligible-for-mensa/185953/59 "2003-07-03T18:10:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lucwarm \* > \*\*Plato? . . . Socrates? . . . Morons!!! \*\* Anybody want a peanut? On the chart someone posted, I would fall in the 99th percentile. 🙂 My tested IQ is generally around 140. Like dantheman said, I had it tested when I was in the 3rd, 4th and 8th grades…and the few internet tests I’ve taken it’s always been right at the same number. I did ok on the SAT’s, nothing to get excited about. Would never consider applying to MENSA. ~J ---
**Author:** ![samarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4da419/32.png) [@samarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samarm)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-almost-all-dopers-are-eligible-for-mensa/185953/60 "2003-07-03T18:14:04Z")
And **sailor** makes possibly the most intelligent observation in the thread so far. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-almost-all-dopers-are-eligible-for-mensa/185953.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-almost-all-dopers-are-eligible-for-mensa/185953.md?page=4)