# Apparently, almost all Dopers are eligible for Mensa **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 3, 2003, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-almost-all-dopers-are-eligible-for-mensa/185953 "2003-07-03T04:53:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-almost-all-dopers-are-eligible-for-mensa/185953/61 "2003-07-03T19:46:48Z")
I’m stupid. ---
**Author:** ![j.c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/73ab20/32.png) [@j.c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j.c)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-almost-all-dopers-are-eligible-for-mensa/185953/62 "2003-07-03T19:48:46Z")
Doesn’t Mensa accept SAT scores? Can’t anyone who takes a prep course get a Mensa-level SAT score? People who care about that kind of thing wait around until they finally get a test score up to their standards… ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-almost-all-dopers-are-eligible-for-mensa/185953/63 "2003-07-03T20:07:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by FisherQueen \* > \*\*I’ll fess up cheerfully. According to my GRE test results, at least, I’m about 5% too low for the Mensa range. I’ve resigned myself to my non-Mensahood, because I have other hobbies. \*\* Anybody know what the GRE requirement was? I looked at Mensa’s homepage and they don’t seem to offer that anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-almost-all-dopers-are-eligible-for-mensa/185953/64 "2003-07-03T20:46:15Z")
I am clearly eligible for Mensa, based on my success with those little Mensa quizzes in American Airlines magazine: ## EGGS EASY HA! Not even a CHALLENGE for my supreme intellect!!! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-almost-all-dopers-are-eligible-for-mensa/185953/65 "2003-07-03T21:25:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Spectre of Pithecanthropus \* > \*\*Anybody know what the GRE requirement was? I looked at Mensa’s homepage and they don’t seem to offer that anymore. \*\* I found it. According to [this page](http://www.us.mensa.org/join_mensa/testscores.php3), the GRE requirement is: > [@](#): > > prior to 5/94 (math + verbal): 1250 > > scored from 5/94 to 9/01 (math + verbal + analytic): 1875 > > effective 10/01: N/A So, if you took the GRE before October 2001, you can work out whether or not you’re Mensa material. If you took it since then, according to the site, “These tests no longer correlate with an IQ test.” I took the GRE in 1999. Does anyone know what’s changed since then that makes it no longer “equivalent” to an IQ test? ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_H](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a5b964/32.png) [@Bill\_H](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_H)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-almost-all-dopers-are-eligible-for-mensa/185953/66 "2003-07-03T22:15:14Z")
More fun with numbers: [ul] [li]I just realized from my little chart back there, that by sheer coincidence the dumbest person in the world (assuming it’s a perfect bell curve, which it’s not) will have an IQ of exactly zero. That’s nice and neat. It coulda been -43.7 or 55 or any other number, but just happened to be zero. I wonder if that zero IQ person is on this board. Hell, sometimes I wonder if that person is me.[/li][li]As I noted in my chart, in our current 6 billion people, (again with a perfect bell curve) you’d expect to see one smartest person with an IQ of 200. I wonder if Cecil belongs to Mensa. Well, no I don’t.[/li][li]One of the more famous number droppers (and also Mensa member) is Marilyn vos Savant, who claims to have an IQ of 228. Again, assuming a perfect bell curve, you’d expect one person to have that IQ in a population of 1.5 quadrillion. Which is so completely improbable as to throw total scientific disgust on the whole mess.[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-almost-all-dopers-are-eligible-for-mensa/185953/67 "2003-07-03T22:41:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mhendo \* > \*\*I found it. According to [this page](http://www.us.mensa.org/join_mensa/testscores.php3), the GRE requirement is: So, if you took the GRE before October 2001, you can work out whether or not you’re Mensa material. If you took it since then, according to the site, “These tests no longer correlate with an IQ test.” > > I took the GRE in 1999. Does anyone know what’s changed since then that makes it no longer “equivalent” to an IQ test? \*\* My first thought was that Mensa mistrusted the computer adaptive tests that came during the 90’s, but that’s well before their cutoff date. And ETS has demonstrated fairly convincingly that the CAT will give similar results to the old paper and pencil version. I took mine in 1997 and did well on it, well enough to easily qualify for Mensa if I wanted to, but I’m with **Cicada** on not wanting to be the dumbest in the room. I’ve got degrees and some say I’m pretty sharp. But in the circles in which I move, I notice more what I don’t understand and know, more than what I do, believe me! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Weak\_Force](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9dc877/32.png) [@The\_Weak\_Force](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Weak_Force)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-almost-all-dopers-are-eligible-for-mensa/185953/68 "2003-07-03T23:27:38Z")
> [@](#): > > Well, intelligence is untestable, mostly because no two experts seem able to agree on exactly what IQ tests measure. It seems intuitive to me that intelligence not be measurable, at least in practice. Just consider that any group of people that designs an intelligence test has a finite (hopefully relatively high, but still finite) intellect. No matter how carefully they design the test, in designing a test that is supposed to measure intelligence itself, their own intellectual abilities place what I see as a pretty fundamental limit on the quality of the test, especially in evaluating intellects superior to their own. This is far from any kind of proof, but in a hand-wavy kind of way, I think this is a useful perspective. > [@](#): > > In Mensa, I found most of the members to be self-important bores who spent too much time in political infighting and whining about how nobody appreciated their flaming genius when they were children, even though all that raw talent only got them as far as being insurance salesmen and video store clerks (not to slam those two professions, but one would expect a towering genius to be, you know, an Evil Warlord or something). This is sort of interesting. I was _over_appreciated as a kid. My parents, especially, thought I was smarter than I really was. They worked pretty hard to convince me that I was, and I was gullible enough to believe them. Just a random side note. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-almost-all-dopers-are-eligible-for-mensa/185953/69 "2003-07-03T23:42:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by j.c. \* > \*\*Doesn’t Mensa accept SAT scores? Can’t anyone who takes a prep course get a Mensa-level SAT score? > > People who care about that kind of thing wait around until they finally get a test score up to their standards… \*\* No, not any more. The SAT after a particular year (which I forget) was changed, and was determined to be more of an achievement test than an aptitude test after the change. There is disagreement on whether the prep courses really help SAT scores, but that’s a separate issue. It is possible, but unethical, to keep taking tests of the same type until you get the score you want. With every re-take, the test becomes less a measure of your ability or aptitude and more a measure of what’s called the “practice effect.” I’ve heard that Marilyn V.S. did exactly that to get her stratospheric score. I’ve also been told by qualified psychologists that the scores reported at that level are fallacious, possibly due to extrapolation of a test given to a very young child. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-almost-all-dopers-are-eligible-for-mensa/185953/70 "2003-07-03T23:43:01Z")
(I’m slightly hesitant to post this, lest I come off as an arrogant jerk, but…) Several people on this thread have commented that they are skeptical of the sky-high IQs frequently claimed on other threads. Well, I don’t think I’ve ever actually made such a claim, and I will make no specific claim now, but I have a tested IQ (test was administered by school officials when I was a child, that’s all I know) that is ludicrously high, and I came up with a similar result by looking up my SAT and GRE scores on IQ equilvalency tables. What does this mean? Do I believe that you all should bow down to me? Hardly. I’m not Einstein. I will never win a Nobel prize. But I don’t think it’s irrelevent or meaningless. There are certain types of mental exercise at which I am exceptionally good. They happen to manifest themselves while taking standardized tests, solving logic/math puzzles, and in a few other more practical pursuits, one of which (fortunately) is computer programming. I can well believe that, in that narrow, specific area, I have natural aptitude found in only one-in-a-very-very-large-number. So, I have an incredible natural talent for programming. Offset that with the fact that I’m lazy and generally unmotivated and I end up being an extremely good, but not freakishly exceptional, professional programmer. Who, I might add, is frequently intellectually stimulated by dopers. I guess my attitude about my IQ is similar to what one’s attitude might be if one were a former child star or something of that sort. It’s something that I’m proud of, but which is fundamentally irrelevant to actual life. And mentioning it in polite company is pretty much verboten, for a variety of reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-almost-all-dopers-are-eligible-for-mensa/185953/71 "2003-07-04T00:00:59Z")
RickJay forgot one type of response in the typical Mensa thread … Go jerk off your slide rule, Poindexter. Who the fuck would want to even _be_ in Mensa. I’m just saying … I have no idea if I qualify. I don’t even know what qualifies. I don’t really care. I don’t understand the allure of such an elitist club. What do you guys do, get together, sip exotic teas, compare new theories on quantum masturbation and laugh at construction workers? I’d rather hang out with the construction workers myself … they’re more fun. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-almost-all-dopers-are-eligible-for-mensa/185953/72 "2003-07-04T00:29:15Z")
I used to think the people in Mensa had to be just about the smartest people around. Then I got invited to join. Pretty much blew that theory out of the water. ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-almost-all-dopers-are-eligible-for-mensa/185953/73 "2003-07-04T01:17:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jack Batty \* > \*\* What do you guys do, get together, sip exotic teas, compare new theories on quantum masturbation and laugh at construction workers? > > I’d rather hang out with the construction workers myself … they’re more fun. \*\* Actually, there are Mensans who ARE construction workers. I know one or two myself. Yeah, some of us like exotic teas. Many prefer beer. There is a guy from New Jersey who was the President of American Mensa for a while, and then was the chief officer of Mensa International. He’s was an electrical contractor, but I think he’s retired now. ---
**Author:** ![lel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8797f3/32.png) [@lel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lel)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-almost-all-dopers-are-eligible-for-mensa/185953/74 "2003-07-04T02:25:33Z")
**sailor** , you say I’m dumb like it’s supposed to be an insult. I’m not particularly bothered by factual statements. ---
**Author:** ![Panzerfaust](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecc23a/32.png) [@Panzerfaust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Panzerfaust)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-almost-all-dopers-are-eligible-for-mensa/185953/75 "2003-07-04T04:53:07Z")
Ahem. I HAVE AN IQ OF A HOJILLION AND I RUN THE MASONIC SECRET SOCIETY BEHIND MENSA BUT IQ ISN’T IMPORTANT!!!@#!@!!@!# ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-almost-all-dopers-are-eligible-for-mensa/185953/76 "2003-07-04T05:46:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jack Batty \* > \*\*I have no idea if I qualify. I don’t even know what qualifies. I don’t really care. I don’t understand the allure of such an elitist club. What do you guys do, get together, sip exotic teas, compare new theories on quantum masturbation and laugh at construction workers?/B] Don’t knock the benefits of quantum masturbation. It’s pretty amazing what you can do in terms of self-love when your schlong is technically in two places simultaneously. Or is it both erect and flaccid at the same time? I can never remember how Schroedinger’s Dingus goes. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-almost-all-dopers-are-eligible-for-mensa/185953/77 "2003-07-04T10:43:09Z")
Oh, great. There’s a dingus amongus. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-almost-all-dopers-are-eligible-for-mensa/185953/78 "2003-07-04T10:56:51Z")
Mensa? 😛 [http://www.gigasociety.org/gigaweb.htm](http://www.gigasociety.org/gigaweb.htm) ---
**Author:** ![YoudNeverGuess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a587f6/32.png) [@YoudNeverGuess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YoudNeverGuess)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-almost-all-dopers-are-eligible-for-mensa/185953/79 "2003-07-04T11:34:03Z")
OK, so I only read the first 15 posts or so but I’m just going to reply anyway because so far the thread’s going round in circles. My 2c is this: You can usually tell how intelligent a person is by talking to them. IQ tests, in my experience, serve mainly as a means of bolstering one’s self-esteem - all very nice, but intelligence is a much more complex and varied thing than these tests can measure accurately. It is possible to improve your score to some extent by continued practice of similar tests. Also some people are particularly well-suited to taking these tests. While I believe that a lot of earnest and well-intentioned work has gone into making the tests as fair as possible I have yet to come across an ‘IQ’ test that can measure artistic intelligence or social intelligence for example and these are both undeniably in existence. That is, there is a _discernable_ difference between someone who is more socially intelligent or artistically intelligent than someone else. As for joining a ‘smart club’ - yes it is tacky in my opinion but leave them to it. Socially intelligent people know better! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![auliya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/90db22/32.png) [@auliya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/auliya)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-almost-all-dopers-are-eligible-for-mensa/185953/80 "2003-07-04T12:18:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*Well, if your kid wants one, I know there are merchants that will sell one to you, but IMO > > A) The humor of the shirt is pretty much lost on a gneration that was not raised on the Dick and Jane books > B) Any shirt featured on **The Simpsons** is too mass-market appeal to be really cool. > > See, IMO, the appeal of a good science t-shirt is that is is obscure enough that only the cognoscenti will understand yet general enough that when you explain it, the inquirer will be impressed rather than pitying. > > A good example, this t-shirt featuring [Maxwell’s equations](http://www.buy-tees.com/viewt-shirt.asp?tshirtid=4200) \*\* Just 2 points - a)The kid in question is only just 10 years old and is widely enough read to be aware of the learn-to-read books that incorpororated “run spot run” etc. b)He really isn’t into being cool, and I am really glad our family’s control of American cultural influences includes very little exposure to the Simpsons, so he has never seen the slogan before. And in his opinion most 10yr olds he has to do with at school are pretty ignorant of the workings of DOS, like most 10yr olds they have been raised in Windows environments, so he figures they will be impressed and not pitying. Your suggestion would create a huge impact among 10yr olds, Mensa members or not, I’m sure. :rolleyes: Of course American 10yr olds would be au fait with obsolete operating systems as well as the Simpsons, and quite probably more impressed with t shirts with christian slogans [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-almost-all-dopers-are-eligible-for-mensa/185953.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-almost-all-dopers-are-eligible-for-mensa/185953.md?page=5)