# Apparently, baby boomers haven't saved for retirement; What happens next? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 18, 2014, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-baby-boomers-havent-saved-for-retirement-what-happens-next/683991 "2014-03-18T10:51:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ThisUsernameIsForbidden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b4bc9f/32.png) [@ThisUsernameIsForbidden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThisUsernameIsForbidden)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-baby-boomers-havent-saved-for-retirement-what-happens-next/683991/21 "2014-03-18T18:07:42Z")
It’s sad. I’ve known people that are boomers who have worked their whole life, putting up with other people’s nonsense for decades, only to be left with a mortgage that they will never finish paying for. It’s hard to retire when you need to pay rent or a mortgage. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-baby-boomers-havent-saved-for-retirement-what-happens-next/683991/22 "2014-03-18T18:10:51Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Which, to my mind, is a good thing. The increased moved toward single-generation households has been a 50-year-long mistake, IMHO. If nothing else, multigenerational households will reduce carbon footprints. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-baby-boomers-havent-saved-for-retirement-what-happens-next/683991/23 "2014-03-18T18:38:23Z")
> [@shiftless](#): > > Us baby boomers plan to do exactly what our parents did in reality: vote for the government to pay for everything for us so we can spend our days playing golf and complaining about the poor servce young people provide. If necessary the government can introduce still more new programs that funnel money from the young into our pockets. That is what SS did for the elderly of yesteryear, that’s what Medicare did when it was introduced. Us baby boomers have watched our parents selfishly vote every perk they can think of for themselves, leaving us with only a vague promise that we can screw over our children in the same way and somehow make it work. > > The sad truth is we can’t expect to live like our parents have in retirement. There are going to be a lot of poor old people in future. My father and father-in-law both did and have done nicely in retirement due primarily to pensions and savings, though SS certainly helped. And can you imagine healthcare costs for seniors without Medicare? Who would insure a 90 year old again? Voting to force oneself to save for retirement is not a selfish perk. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-baby-boomers-havent-saved-for-retirement-what-happens-next/683991/24 "2014-03-18T19:51:50Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Is this any different from previous generations? A question that deserves to be repeated. There have always been people who suffered unexpected economic setbacks, or failed to save enough money for retirement. Due to an expanded pool of retirees and longer life expectancy, the problem will be more noticeable in coming years, but it’s not exactly something that can be blamed on “baby boomers” (or in years to come on “Gen Xers” or “millennials”). Also I would note that getting one’s information from Alex Jones’ Infowars\* is not a good way to gain understanding of the issue.\* :dubious: \*they’re also featuring a story that warns “Technological elite engaged in mission to attain full spectrum dominance over life.” (a company is planning to release a genetically engineered vanilla manufatured by yeast). ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-baby-boomers-havent-saved-for-retirement-what-happens-next/683991/25 "2014-03-18T20:21:15Z")
> [@bump](#): > > (personally, I’m looking forward to it, being one of the GenX-ers who will be in great demand) The difference is huge demographically speaking but its not like its a 2::1 difference. There will still be plenty of competition for top managerial spots. > [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Which, to my mind, is a good thing. The increased moved toward single-generation households has been a 50-year-long mistake, IMHO. > > Multi-generational households provide - again IMHO - a more stable place for kids and adults. Baby sitters are no longer needed, adult wage earners will know they have stability for planning and so forth. Plus is promote large-family bonding. > > I’ve certainly invited my mom to come live with me anytime she wants. Far better that than she ends up in a nursing home somewhere. With enough people in the home anything becomes fairly simple. I have three generations living in my home and as you say, many hands make light work. I don’t know how people raise kids without grandparents around. > [@shiftless](#): > > Us baby boomers plan to do exactly what our parents did in reality: vote for the government to pay for everything for us so we can spend our days playing golf and complaining about the poor servce young people provide. If necessary the government can introduce still more new programs that funnel money from the young into our pockets. That is what SS did for the elderly of yesteryear, that’s what Medicare did when it was introduced. Us baby boomers have watched our parents selfishly vote every perk they can think of for themselves, leaving us with only a vague promise that we can screw over our children in the same way and somehow make it work. So your parents, the ones that lived through the great depression and fought WWII were just greedy fuckers? Or are you just tired of all the blame that boomers justifiably receive for being self centered? Sure its the result of a generations worth of marketing towards the largest demographic in the population but the generations before you really did sacrifice much more than you did and the generation after you really is carrying more of the burden than you did. > [@](#): > > The sad truth is we can’t expect to live like our parents have in retirement. There are going to be a lot of poor old people in future. Its like noone remembers the elderly eating cat food 30 or 40 years ago. > [@Voyager](#): > > My father and father-in-law both did and have done nicely in retirement due primarily to pensions and savings, though SS certainly helped. And can you imagine healthcare costs for seniors without Medicare? Who would insure a 90 year old again? > Voting to force oneself to save for retirement is not a selfish perk. Most of the parents of baby boomers contributed to social security for the great majority of their working lives. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-baby-boomers-havent-saved-for-retirement-what-happens-next/683991/26 "2014-03-18T20:32:30Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > . > > Most of the parents of baby boomers contributed to social security for the great majority of their working lives. Considering that SS started about 80 years ago, “almost all” would be more accurate. Though I will admit that my parents’ generation would have voted for it again and again - remember when it was the third rail of American politics. Maybe it still is - that the right today blathers about Ponzi schemes just shows how extreme they’ve become. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-baby-boomers-havent-saved-for-retirement-what-happens-next/683991/27 "2014-03-18T20:49:38Z")
The Boomer-targeted marketing that **Damuri** mentions can’t be helping the situation. I don’t know how retirement was portrayed in my grandmother’s day. But Boomers now are being sold a view of retirement that seems unrealistic even for people who are fairly comfortable. Are lots of Boomers really sailing across the world, opening their own boutique businesses, and living it up on island beach resorts, like all those Prudential advertisements show? I could see a recent retiree seeing this kind of messaging and thinking that if they aren’t “living it up” in their golden years, then they must be doing it wrong. Fifty years ago, the idea of “traveling” for fun must have seemed like a luxury meant for the super rich and adventurous. But it’s an aspiration of many “regular” people nowadays, now that we all have the National Geographic channel. Fifty years ago, the idea of remodeling the house was probably quite foreign. But HDTV makes it seem like the thing “to do” now. Leisure is more expensive than it used to be. My grandmother has been able to keep herself occupied over the past 50 years by reading library books in her tiny pre-fab house. My mother, however, “needs” her backyard swimming pool, her 200-channel satellite dish (and four big screen TVs), and her car so she can go shopping and casino-ing. HOWEVER, my grandmother isn’t more virtuous than my mother is. It’s just that they have a different set of expectations in life. My mother has been told that her golden years should be devoted to fun. My grandmother has never been told such a thing. I imagine that when I get closer to retirement, I too will feel “entitled”. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-baby-boomers-havent-saved-for-retirement-what-happens-next/683991/28 "2014-03-18T20:53:03Z")
I believe by next decade it’ll cost 200k per person for medical care not covered by medicare. That number is going to keep going up. So these people don’t even have enough for medical care. I wonder what happens in China. They don’t have social security or medicare, they are far less wealthy and they have the 1 child policy. My assumption is it’ll be a mix of higher taxes, boarding houses for the elderly, robotics to help support the elderly, more old people in the labor force, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-baby-boomers-havent-saved-for-retirement-what-happens-next/683991/29 "2014-03-18T21:04:06Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Considering that SS started about 80 years ago, “almost all” would be more accurate. Though I will admit that my parents’ generation would have voted for it again and again - remember when it was the third rail of American politics. Maybe it still is - that the right today blathers about Ponzi schemes just shows how extreme they’ve become. Extreme?! How can you think it’s anything _but_ a Ponzi scheme? What do you call it when the [people paying into the system dwindle](http://mercatus.org/publication/how-many-workers-support-one-social-security-retiree) and the people who got in early get out without paying their fair share? 2.9 workers today are carrying one boomer on their back. It was 3.4 a decade ago. It’s only getting worse. How is that not a Ponzi scheme? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-baby-boomers-havent-saved-for-retirement-what-happens-next/683991/30 "2014-03-18T21:07:49Z")
> [@pullin](#): > > As if we needed another financial crisis… > > According to these articles, baby boomers aren’t just a little behind on their savings. They’re in deep trouble. [Time](http://time.com/20404/the-real-debt-crisis-we-arent-talking-about/) says the average 55-65 has less than 120K to draw from. This article in [InfoWars](http://www.infowars.com/do-you-want-to-scare-a-baby-boomer/) claims the numbers are even worse; A full quarter of them _haven’t saved anything at all_. > IW: \ ***26 percent of all Americans in the 46 to 64-year-old age bracket have no personal savings whatsoever**. You do realize that no retirement savings was the norm prior to WWII? That most people worked until they died? Either that, or some relative would stash them in a back room, if they were lucky. We’re back to the 19th Century, baby. That’s what I think will happen. What _should_ happen? Damifino - pretty sure the post-Boomer generations won’t be able to support the Boomers in a middle-class lifestyle. Guess all those Boomers who voted to cut the social support system and safety net will reap what they’ve sown. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-baby-boomers-havent-saved-for-retirement-what-happens-next/683991/31 "2014-03-18T21:10:10Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Surely someone out there still needs a typing pool. Nope, they don’t - unemployed typist. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-baby-boomers-havent-saved-for-retirement-what-happens-next/683991/32 "2014-03-18T21:17:40Z")
Over in another thread, a couple of posters were trying to reassure me and others that our government can’t go broke and it is not subject to the same borrowing principles as business and personal debtors. Maybe Exapno Mapcase and that other guy (I forget who it was) can weigh in over here and just explain why we can’t borrow a bunch more money and pay out whatever we want to to whoever wants it–including fiscally irresponsible seniors who saved nothing. I tried to convince them otherwise, but they seemed pretty determined to prove that governments can just borrow all they want as the need arises. I’ll try to remember the thread and post a link. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-baby-boomers-havent-saved-for-retirement-what-happens-next/683991/33 "2014-03-18T21:32:45Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Extreme?! How can you think it’s anything _but_ a Ponzi scheme? What do you call it when the [people paying into the system dwindle](http://mercatus.org/publication/how-many-workers-support-one-social-security-retiree) and the people who got in early get out without paying their fair share? > > 2.9 workers today are carrying one boomer on their back. It was 3.4 a decade ago. It’s only getting worse. How is that not a Ponzi scheme? If the tax rate goes from its current 12.4% up to about 15%, that will keep the system solvent until the 22nd century. And that is without raising the cap, raising the age, lowering the benefits, etc. The system is not a failure, it just needs modifications. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-baby-boomers-havent-saved-for-retirement-what-happens-next/683991/34 "2014-03-18T21:36:35Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Multi-generational households provide - again IMHO - a more stable place for kids and adults. Baby sitters are no longer needed, adult wage earners will know they have stability for planning and so forth. Plus is promote large-family bonding. Multi-generational households suffer from the same demographic crunch that Social Security and other retirement programs face, though. Boomer family sizes are smaller and people are living longer. My grandmothers had 4 and 7 kids, respectively. They lived with various children at times, and many of their children contribute. My parents had just me, and my future wife’s parents had two children. And both sets of parents are divorced. That’s a much bigger support burden and it’s really an open question how it’s going to work out. I could see having one of them come live with us at some point, but what do the others do? A return to multi-generational households will help, but it’s not just a question of designing houses differently. Fundamentally there are more people to be supported off of fewer workers. We all may find ourselves a bit poorer than we thought we were. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-baby-boomers-havent-saved-for-retirement-what-happens-next/683991/35 "2014-03-18T21:40:13Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Nope, they don’t > > - unemployed typist. I thought you were a pilot. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-baby-boomers-havent-saved-for-retirement-what-happens-next/683991/36 "2014-03-18T21:55:35Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > Maybe Exapno Mapcase and that other guy (I forget who it was) can weigh in over here and just explain why we can’t borrow a bunch more money and pay out whatever we want to to whoever wants it–including fiscally irresponsible seniors who saved nothing. > > I tried to convince them otherwise, but they seemed pretty determined to prove that governments can just borrow all they want as the need arises. I’ll try to remember the thread and post a link. You’re misrepresenting their statements. Badly. [Here’s the thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=717903). Yes, the US government can borrow all the money it wants but not without consequences. Nobody denied that those consequences don’t exist nor that they are quite serious, which is precisely why it doesn’t happen willy-nilly. What they did (correctly) deny that government debt is like personal or corporate debt for reasons they described in the other thread. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-baby-boomers-havent-saved-for-retirement-what-happens-next/683991/37 "2014-03-18T22:07:02Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > Multi-generational households suffer from the same demographic crunch that Social Security and other retirement programs face, though. > > Boomer family sizes are smaller and people are living longer. > > My grandmothers had 4 and 7 kids, respectively. They lived with various children at times, and many of their children contribute. My parents had just me, and my future wife’s parents had two children. And both sets of parents are divorced. That’s a much bigger support burden and it’s really an open question how it’s going to work out. I could see having one of them come live with us at some point, but what do the others do? > > A return to multi-generational households will help, but it’s not just a question of designing houses differently. Fundamentally there are more people to be supported off of fewer workers. We all may find ourselves a bit poorer than we thought we were. That’s really a good point. Seems to me the “three-generations under one roof” sounds good when the youngest generation are little kids and the second generation needs an extra set of babysitters and the third generation still has the energy to be of service. But more and more young adults are living with their parents. Through college years and beyond. How do three generations of _adults_ living under one roof not kill each other? How does the second generation not lose their minds with worrying over tuition bills AND elder care? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-baby-boomers-havent-saved-for-retirement-what-happens-next/683991/38 "2014-03-18T22:11:20Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > If the tax rate goes from its current 12.4% up to about 15%, that will keep the system solvent until the 22nd century. And that is without raising the cap, raising the age, lowering the benefits, etc. > > The system is not a failure, it just needs modifications. Thanks. And less extreme ones than that arch-liberal Ronald Reagan made. Anyone claiming otherwise should give some cites from mainstream (not necessarily left wing) economists. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-baby-boomers-havent-saved-for-retirement-what-happens-next/683991/39 "2014-03-18T22:19:04Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > The Boomer-targeted marketing that **Damuri** mentions can’t be helping the situation. I don’t know how retirement was portrayed in my grandmother’s day. But Boomers now are being sold a view of retirement that seems unrealistic even for people who are fairly comfortable. > > Are lots of Boomers really sailing across the world, opening their own boutique businesses, and living it up on island beach resorts, like all those Prudential advertisements show? I could see a recent retiree seeing this kind of messaging and thinking that if they aren’t “living it up” in their golden years, then they must be doing it wrong. > > Fifty years ago, the idea of “traveling” for fun must have seemed like a luxury meant for the super rich and adventurous. But it’s an aspiration of many “regular” people nowadays, now that we all have the National Geographic channel. Fifty years ago, the idea of remodeling the house was probably quite foreign. But HDTV makes it seem like the thing “to do” now. Leisure is more expensive than it used to be. My grandmother has been able to keep herself occupied over the past 50 years by reading library books in her tiny pre-fab house. My mother, however, “needs” her backyard swimming pool, her 200-channel satellite dish (and four big screen TVs), and her car so she can go shopping and casino-ing. > > HOWEVER, my grandmother isn’t more virtuous than my mother is. It’s just that they have a different set of expectations in life. My mother has been told that her golden years should be devoted to fun. My grandmother has never been told such a thing. I imagine that when I get closer to retirement, I too will feel “entitled”. We’ve been watching TV commercials since before most of you were born, and back when they were really dishonest. You think that the average working stiff thinks retirement means an empty beach with a retired spouse looking about 30? Maybe we also thought buying the right beer would get us some time with the Swedish Bikini Team. What we do see is doom and gloom and retirement planning sites that claim you need 90% of your salary to retire on. The big stuff we see comes from financial institutions saying that unless we buy their products we’ll be eating dog food. And that is before you get Alzheimer’s. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-baby-boomers-havent-saved-for-retirement-what-happens-next/683991/40 "2014-03-18T22:23:21Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Nope, they don’t > > - unemployed typist. I hear you. When I started we had an admin for every 20 or 25 people. Now we have one for about 125 - and she doesn’t do much, not for lack of wanting work but because of lack of work. And it is going to get work. High level execs when I started pretty much didn’t use word processing. Now they all do, though I work in a tech firm where lack of computer skills means low prestige. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-baby-boomers-havent-saved-for-retirement-what-happens-next/683991.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-baby-boomers-havent-saved-for-retirement-what-happens-next/683991.md?page=3)