# Apparently I'm an aficionado of midcentury "hard bop" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 25, 2015, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-im-an-aficionado-of-midcentury-hard-bop/710856 "2015-01-25T14:54:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2015, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-im-an-aficionado-of-midcentury-hard-bop/710856/21 "2015-01-28T10:14:35Z")
> [@Zeldar](#): > > **SlackerInc** , if you haven’t already done so, check out [Charles Mingus Quintet Live 1959 ~ No Private Income Blues](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L97zh2p7ZZc) and listen to the “traded licks” from the horns. Playing it now, and while I don’t quite know what you mean about “traded licks”, this definitely jams. I love how it starts with just that bass line too. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2015, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-im-an-aficionado-of-midcentury-hard-bop/710856/22 "2015-01-28T10:17:57Z")
I looked up Seamus Blake, and while Spotify doesn’t have the track you mentioned, I’m very intrigued to listen to this \*Dark Side of the Moon \*tribute album after the Mingus. What a cool idea! (I mean, it could easily go horribly wrong, but still.) ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2015, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-im-an-aficionado-of-midcentury-hard-bop/710856/23 "2015-01-28T11:52:38Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > J.J. Johnson and Stan Getz at the Opera House, Chicago, 1957. Rhythm section rocks out with Oscar Peterson, Herb Ellis, Ray Brown, and Connie Kay. Possibly the best live hard bop performance you can get. (Even though hardly anyone thinks of Getz when you say “hard bop.”) On the Verve label. You’ll thank me later. That sounds cool. **SlackerInc** - serious question: you really don’t know what “traded licks” means? As someone aware enough to know they like hard bop - and good on you for that! - I have to believe you have encountered it before…? It means one or more soloists playing leads, typicaly one after the other, but sometimes overlapping. Sometimes they will egg each other on - starting a phrase and expecting someone else to finish it; going for the highest note; etc. You’ve heard this type of thing, yes? ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2015, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-im-an-aficionado-of-midcentury-hard-bop/710856/24 "2015-01-28T12:11:52Z")
On the Mingus _Black Saint_ album, Track B is really fun. Totally different from anything else I’ve heard, but a hoot (literally and figuratively). ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2015, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-im-an-aficionado-of-midcentury-hard-bop/710856/25 "2015-01-28T12:27:38Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > J.J. Johnson and Stan Getz at the Opera House, Chicago, 1957. Rhythm section rocks out with Oscar Peterson, Herb Ellis, Ray Brown, and Connie Kay. Possibly the best live hard bop performance you can get. (Even though hardly anyone thinks of Getz when you say “hard bop.”) On the Verve label. You’ll thank me later. Queued this up just now–just finished “Billie’s Bounce”, which has great energy. Thanks! > [@WordMan](#): > > **SlackerInc** - serious question: you really don’t know what “traded licks” means? As someone aware enough to know they like hard bop - and good on you for that! - I have to believe you have encountered it before…? It means one or more soloists playing leads, typicaly one after the other, but sometimes overlapping. Sometimes they will egg each other on - starting a phrase and expecting someone else to finish it; going for the highest note; etc. You’ve heard this type of thing, yes? Cool, yeah, I think so. But no: I really hadn’t heard the term. I am just not very knowledgeable about music terminology. I’ve never played an instrument, unless you count the recorder in fifth grade, or a harmonica I used to goof around with and figured out how to play “Silent Night” and “Twinkle Twinkle Little Star” on. And I haven’t read anything about jazz, haven’t even seen the Ken Burns special. So up until just the past few days, all I knew just came from listening (and the Jazz After Hours host always named the musicians, but didn’t seem to talk about the kinds of elements you guys do). Other than that show, I have been to jazz clubs twice (once in Greenwich Village, once in Kansas City), and have seen jazz ensembles a few times at the local bars where I live now, headed by a music professor at the university. But I would just watch them play and listen, so it still didn’t teach me how to talk/write about the music. I had never even heard of “hard bop” until this past weekend, when I did the research I described in the OP and figured out that was the name for the style I preferred. I guess it’s kind of weird to be into jazz this way! ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2015, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-im-an-aficionado-of-midcentury-hard-bop/710856/26 "2015-01-28T14:28:49Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Playing it now, and while I don’t quite know what you mean about “traded licks”, this definitely jams. I love how it starts with just that bass line too. > [@WordMan](#): > > That sounds cool. > > **SlackerInc** - serious question: you really don’t know what “traded licks” means? As someone aware enough to know they like hard bop - and good on you for that! - I have to believe you have encountered it before…? It means one or more soloists playing leads, typicaly one after the other, but sometimes overlapping. Sometimes they will egg each other on - starting a phrase and expecting someone else to finish it; going for the highest note; etc. You’ve heard this type of thing, yes? Unless you’re listening to that tune on a good set of stereo speakers, with good channel separation, the “traded licks” will be difficult (if not impossible) to make out. In fact the reason I love the track so much is that it helped me to sell stereo equipment back in the day! The liner notes on the album (which I have not been able to locate online) called special attention to the duel between Booker Ervin, tenor saxophone and John Handy, alto saxophone, as they went from alternating 8-bars, to 4-bars, to 2-bars, to 1-bar and then to every other note! It was so hard to tell them apart that you’d imagine it was one person playing. There may be similar examples of players that much in sync with each other, but this example was the best I ever heard. Sorry about Seamus and Spotify! ☹ ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2015, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-im-an-aficionado-of-midcentury-hard-bop/710856/27 "2015-01-28T16:14:28Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Queued this up just now–just finished “Billie’s Bounce”, which has great energy. Thanks! > > Cool, yeah, I think so. But no: I really hadn’t heard the term. I am just not very knowledgeable about music terminology. I’ve never played an instrument, unless you count the recorder in fifth grade, or a harmonica I used to goof around with and figured out how to play “Silent Night” and “Twinkle Twinkle Little Star” on. And I haven’t read anything about jazz, haven’t even seen the Ken Burns special. > > So up until just the past few days, all I knew just came from listening (and the Jazz After Hours host always named the musicians, but didn’t seem to talk about the kinds of elements you guys do). Other than that show, I have been to jazz clubs twice (once in Greenwich Village, once in Kansas City), and have seen jazz ensembles a few times at the local bars where I live now, headed by a music professor at the university. But I would just watch them play and listen, so it still didn’t teach me how to talk/write about the music. > > I had never even heard of “hard bop” until this past weekend, when I did the research I described in the OP and figured out that was the name for the style I preferred. I guess it’s kind of weird to be into jazz this way! Ah - helpful. You really should see the Ken Burns documentary called **Jazz**. It is many hours, but wonderful. Jazz nuts can argue over who it focuses on, but it is a great way to immerse yourself in some basics. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2015, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-im-an-aficionado-of-midcentury-hard-bop/710856/28 "2015-01-28T16:23:00Z")
in the [Straight Dope Music Appreciation Society](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=713881) thread. While we don’t focus on any one genre of music, a lot of posts have a fairly good dissection of the music rather than a simple “that was fun it made me dance”-type comment. I encourage anyone who wants to expose themselves to new music to come participate! ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2015, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-im-an-aficionado-of-midcentury-hard-bop/710856/29 "2015-01-28T20:50:59Z")
Sounds cool, will check it out, thanks. And yeah, I do need to see the Ken Burns doc. > [@Zeldar](#): > > Unless you’re listening to that tune on a good set of stereo speakers, with good channel separation, the “traded licks” will be difficult (if not impossible) to make out. I’ve always been a stickler for that. Carver receiver, fat cables, Yamaha speakers. Not quite on the level ov a pre-amp with separate mono amps, but it sounds pretty good. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-im-an-aficionado-of-midcentury-hard-bop/710856.md?page=1)