# Apparently saying "all lives matter" is racist according to a BLM's co-founder. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 16, 2016, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-saying-all-lives-matter-is-racist-according-to-a-blms-co-founder/760083 "2016-07-16T23:16:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-saying-all-lives-matter-is-racist-according-to-a-blms-co-founder/760083/41 "2016-07-17T03:17:56Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > “Support the Troops!” > > “We should support _everyone_!” No we shouldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-saying-all-lives-matter-is-racist-according-to-a-blms-co-founder/760083/42 "2016-07-17T04:09:22Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I think Jesus did. Something about how it hath been said, thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy . . . Point taken, but, nevertheless, Jesus, in the beatitudes, did select specific people and said that they mattered. He said, “Suffer the little children to come to me,” and not, “Everyone, come to me.” Shortly after the Dallas shootings, one BLM source said – most wonderfully – “Police lives matter.” Can you imagine if another BLM member had corrected him? “No, all lives matter.” Very bad taste. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-saying-all-lives-matter-is-racist-according-to-a-blms-co-founder/760083/43 "2016-07-17T04:19:22Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Point taken, but, nevertheless, Jesus, in the beatitudes, did select specific people and said that they mattered. > > He said, “Suffer the little children to come to me,” and not, “Everyone, come to me.” > > Shortly after the Dallas shootings, one BLM source said – most wonderfully – “Police lives matter.” Can you imagine if another BLM member had corrected him? “No, all lives matter.” Very bad taste. I take your point, but do you figure it’s still bad taste if we switch the hypothetical _“no”_ to a hypothetical _“yes”_, there? Or if the original BLM source had expanded his own comment out to _“Police lives matter just as much as ours do,”_ or maybe out to _“Police lives matter, because all lives matter,”_ or whatever? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-saying-all-lives-matter-is-racist-according-to-a-blms-co-founder/760083/44 "2016-07-17T05:03:36Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > … [endingthefed.com](http://endingthefed.com) … I’d never heard of this “news” site, but a glance — just reading the domain name for that matter — told me all I needed or wanted to know. The only reason I clicked on Health and Science there was to prepare this brief report. The “Health” page contains almost nothing but right-wing articles. The “Science” page articles themselves may not be slanted (I only inspect the titles) but much of the “Science” page’s space is taken up with links to right-wing non-science political opinion pieces. And, BTW, when I speak of “right-wing” I’m not speaking of intelligent conservative economics, or legitimate non-progressive agenda, but just the sort of claptrap Lies-about-Hillary-and-Hussein we’ve come to expect from Teabaggers and other nincompoops. Which is all by way of segue into a question: > [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > I agree with and support the BLM movement, but deep down, I have to say I do think all races should matter. If that apparently means I’m making racist comments now, then I guess I’m guilty. @ **Mr. Thoughts** — sincere question: How large do you guess the intersection of the following two sets to be: [ul][li] People who “agree with and support the BLM movement”, and[/li][li] People who somehow click to [endingthefed.com](http://endingthefed.com) and then manage to read an entire article before turning away, perhaps with an urge to vomit.[/li][/ul] IOW, you seem rather unique! Care to comment? Was reading [endingthefed.com](http://endingthefed.com) part of a fraternity prank? I’d prefer not to condescend to you (especially since you have the Power to issue Warnings!) but I think you already know quite well that the sentence “All races should matter”, when viewed in isolation, is not intrinsically racist. It’s silly and disingenuous of you to pretend anyone thinks otherwise. If you want to Pit Ms. Marissa Jenae Johnson for not articulating her point in the most perfect way, fine. In that case you’ll fit in real well among other SDMB nitpickers. Feel free to find a misplaced comma or spelling blunder in my post here while you’re at it. It was good to see that the first several Dopers to respond all understood what was apparently lost on **Mr. Thoughts**. > [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > I’ll say it again: the phrase Black Lives Matter isn’t intended to mean that black lives matter more than other lives, but that black lives matter fully as much as other lives. > [@monstro](#): > > How many times are we going to keep talking about this? > [@bobot](#): > > Of course all lives matter. But generally when someone says it, it is an attempt to negate another phrase, Black Lives Matter. > [@Rysto](#): > > Context is important… > 2) One of the primary complaints that Black Lives Matters is raising is that the black community is facing a number of issues that other communities don’t. So when one strips “Black” out of the slogan “Black Lives Matters”, they’re explicitly denying that there are unique issues faced by the black community. This is especially offensive as it nearly invariably is done by a white male. If it were coming from a hispanic who was trying to make the point that hispanics face a similar set of issues, it’d be one thing, but when it comes from a white male it’s rather offensive. > [@Eliahna](#): > > “All Lives Matter” seems to be an acceptance of the status quo, where black lives are routinely treated as though they don’t matter. > [@mhendo](#): > > Here’s a useful way to think about it, paraphrased from something i read a few days ago: > > A large group of people is sitting down to dinner. The food is served onto plates and handed to each person in turn. Everyone at the table gets a meal, except for Dennis, who sits there with an empty plate. > > Dennis looks around him at all the people eating, and says “I should get some food.” > > Someone else looks up and says, “_Everyone_ should get some food.” And then they all just keep eating, and no-one passes Dennis any food. [my emphasis] > > That’s pretty much the attitude behind a lot of the “All Lives Matter” people. It’s an effort to downplay or minimize or erase altogether the historic racial inequalities evident in America’s law enforcement and criminal justice system. Thank you, Dopers. **Mr. Thoughts** — Has your ignorance been fought? ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-saying-all-lives-matter-is-racist-according-to-a-blms-co-founder/760083/45 "2016-07-17T06:13:34Z")
Goddammit, Dennis. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-saying-all-lives-matter-is-racist-according-to-a-blms-co-founder/760083/46 "2016-07-17T10:39:26Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > How many times are we going to keep talking about this? I dunno - it shows no sign of going away. Most of what I have to say about it has already been said. The phrase is a reminder that black lives matter just as much as anyone else’s. It’s not a difficult concept, unless you’re resistant to the idea. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-saying-all-lives-matter-is-racist-according-to-a-blms-co-founder/760083/47 "2016-07-17T11:03:36Z")
The phrase “states’ rights” seems completely unobjectionable. Of course states should have rights! But _in context_, it meant “the right of slaveholding states to protect and expand slavery,” and everyone at the time damned well knew it. Of course all lives matter! But the _context_ of its current usage is to counter the ideas the BLM protest is trying to convey. ---
**Author:** ![Omega\_Glory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7c8e57/32.png) [@Omega\_Glory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omega_Glory)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-saying-all-lives-matter-is-racist-according-to-a-blms-co-founder/760083/48 "2016-07-17T13:42:49Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > Me, I understand and get that it’s been used to quash “black lives matter” discussion and protesting, but this sort of rubs me the wrong way. It just strikes me as being an extreme blanket statement where the person is overly generalizing something and grouping everyone and everything about it into the same boat. > > I agree with and support the BLM movement, but deep down, I have to say I do think all races should matter. If that apparently means I’m making racist comments now, then I guess I’m guilty. I’m not sure how you could understand and support BLM, understand that ALM has been used to silence the BLM discussion, then conclude that she is saying it’s racist to think that all races matter. Isn’t it obvious what she’s talking about? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-saying-all-lives-matter-is-racist-according-to-a-blms-co-founder/760083/49 "2016-07-17T13:48:45Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I’m sorry, I couldn’t follow the pronouns there. > > When you say “then he’s wrong”, do you mean the guy who says All Lives Matter, or do you mean the guy who complains about it? Because, in the scenario you just quoted, the guy who says All Lives Matter _isn’t_ insisting that some other slogan should be changed; he’s merely saying that All Lives Matter. If he says “All lives matter”, I’ll point out to him why BLM has chosen their slogan, and why “All lives matter” appears to diminish or dismiss their concerns, based on the way it’s been used so often (e.g. to diminish/dismiss the concerns of BLM). ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-saying-all-lives-matter-is-racist-according-to-a-blms-co-founder/760083/50 "2016-07-17T14:03:25Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If he says “All lives matter”, I’ll point out to him why BLM has chosen their slogan, and why “All lives matter” appears to diminish or dismiss their concerns, based on the way it’s been used so often (e.g. to diminish/dismiss the concerns of BLM). So you feel that _complaining_ about a slogan is taking the wrong action, but someone who voices a slogan about how Lives Matter should – have stuff pointed out to him, while you explain the concerns of assorted people? That’s the right action? ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-saying-all-lives-matter-is-racist-according-to-a-blms-co-founder/760083/51 "2016-07-17T14:52:04Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > How many times are we going to keep talking about this? Only pedantry matters. Until the end of time. ---
**Author:** ![spamforbrains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@spamforbrains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spamforbrains)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-saying-all-lives-matter-is-racist-according-to-a-blms-co-founder/760083/52 "2016-07-17T14:55:32Z")
> [@](#): > > But then – by the same logic – stating that Black Lives Matter would likewise be a slap in the face, since I just now got told that that “obviously isn’t true.” So why object to one, but not the other? They are the victims; they are stating their position and objecting to the way they are being treated. They came up with a slogan. Instead of listening to their grievances, you just came up with a slogan and threw it in their faces, indicating you’re not willing to listen to their problems and are dismissing them out of hand. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-saying-all-lives-matter-is-racist-according-to-a-blms-co-founder/760083/53 "2016-07-17T15:10:33Z")
> [@spamforbrains](#): > > They are the victims; they are stating their position and objecting to the way they are being treated. They came up with a slogan. Instead of listening to their grievances, you just came up with a slogan and threw it in their faces, indicating you’re not willing to listen to their problems and are dismissing them out of hand. See, again, it’s that part after the comma that seems like it’s doing all the work. If a guy _does_ listen to their problems instead of dismissing 'em out of hand, doing so because All Lives Matter – isn’t that unobjectionable? But a guy who _isn’t_ willing to listen to their problems, dismissing 'em out of hand while breezily agreeing that “yeah, sure, of course black lives matter” – isn’t that troubling? If you figure a guy can say All Lives Matter while acting like it’s not true, why not grant that he can say Black Lives Matter while acting like _that’s_ not true? Isn’t _either_ statement compatible with listening to people instead of dismissing them out of hand? And can’t you mouth either statement while doing nothing? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-saying-all-lives-matter-is-racist-according-to-a-blms-co-founder/760083/54 "2016-07-17T16:16:57Z")
BLM never stood for Black Lives Matter. If it did it would focus on the ridiculously high levels of violence within the black community. It stands for Black Lives Matter Only If It Involves a Handful Being Killed By Someone Who Isn’t Black. It started with a juvenile delinquent who died attacking someone and then over a thug/thief who attacked a store clerk and then a policeman. That quickly ramped up to large scale protests designed to disrupt public freedoms and cause economic damage against people and businesses that had nothing to do with their cause. To date their successes are measured in burned out businesses and dead police officers who had zero to do with anything. Virtually everything they do is designed to disrupt society in a racially divisive manner and it attracts violent racist groups such as the New Black Panthers. There are more black people killed in Chicago alone in any given [MONTH](https://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/2016-chicago-murders)then the combined group of people BLM has protested over since it’s founding 3 YEARS ago. So if their message isn’t getting the public support they think it deserves it’s because they’re going about it in a divisive and destructive manner. You can’t beat a message of support into society with a stick. I expect more economic damage and more police shootings as a result of their actions. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-saying-all-lives-matter-is-racist-according-to-a-blms-co-founder/760083/55 "2016-07-17T16:58:27Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > BLM never stood for Black Lives Matter. If it did it would focus on the ridiculously high levels of violence within the black community. I find assertions like this rather curious. It’s always intrigued me that, according to people like you, the “black community” as a whole is apparently responsible for crime committed by African Americans, or in predominantly black areas. I mean, i’m a white guy, and no-one ever blames me, or the white people in my neighborhood, or the “white community,” when a white person commits a crime here in San Diego. They blame the criminals for their own actions. And if a police officer oversteps the mark and abuses his authority in my neighborhood, i’m allowed to complain about it without being accused of ignoring all the white criminals arrested in San Diego, or in California, or in the United States. Everyone recognizes that, just because i’m white, it doesn’t mean that i have some sort of control or legal authority over what other white people do. And yet apparently the simple fact of being black places upon an African American the burden of responsibility for every crime committed by someone with a similar level of melanin. Why is that, i wonder? Why is it that the law-abiding black people who live in the United States are responsible for the actions of the black criminals that they are unfortunate enough to have living in their neighborhoods? And why does the existence of crime in black neighborhoods somehow disqualify African Americans as a whole from asserting their rights as tax-payers and citizens in the face of often unfair and sometimes violent police tactics? Is there some basic difference between black people and white people that i’m missing here, and that you can help me understand, which would justify this discrepancy? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-saying-all-lives-matter-is-racist-according-to-a-blms-co-founder/760083/56 "2016-07-17T17:08:30Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > I find assertions like this rather curious. > > It’s always intrigued me that, according to people like you, the “black community” as a whole is apparently responsible for crime committed by African Americans, or in predominantly black areas. > > I mean, i’m a white guy, and no-one ever blames me, or the white people in my neighborhood, or the “white community,” when a white person commits a crime here in San Diego. They blame the criminals for their own actions. And if a police officer oversteps the mark and abuses his authority in my neighborhood, i’m allowed to complain about it without being accused of ignoring all the white criminals arrested in San Diego, or in California, or in the United States. Everyone recognizes that, just because i’m white, it doesn’t mean that i have some sort of control or legal authority over what other white people do. > > And yet apparently the simple fact of being black places upon an African American the burden of responsibility for every crime committed by someone with a similar level of melanin. Why is that, i wonder? Why is it that the law-abiding black people who live in the United States are responsible for the actions of the black criminals that they are unfortunate enough to have living in their neighborhoods? And why does the existence of crime in black neighborhoods somehow disqualify African Americans as a whole from asserting their rights as tax-payers and citizens in the face of often unfair and sometimes violent police tactics? > > Is there some basic difference between black people and white people that i’m missing here, and that you can help me understand, which would justify this discrepancy? Yes, there is a basic difference. The exponential amount of murders within black communities. Ignoring this in the face of a handful of deaths (by someone who is not black) is a poorly framed movement made worse by it’s tactics and supporters. As it is going now there will be more economic damage, and more officers killed as a result of this blatantly racist movement. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-saying-all-lives-matter-is-racist-according-to-a-blms-co-founder/760083/57 "2016-07-17T17:14:14Z")
Do you know that more than 85% of white people who are murdered are killed by other white people? Why doesn’t anyone bring up “White on White crime?” Why do you put the extra blame and responsibility on Black citizens? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-saying-all-lives-matter-is-racist-according-to-a-blms-co-founder/760083/58 "2016-07-17T17:15:04Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > So you feel that _complaining_ about a slogan is taking the wrong action, but someone who voices a slogan about how Lives Matter should – have stuff pointed out to him, while you explain the concerns of assorted people? That’s the right action? In a very minuscule sense, I think so. I do very little for the BLM movement other than supporting it in online discussions, but I’ll try to do that the best I can. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-saying-all-lives-matter-is-racist-according-to-a-blms-co-founder/760083/59 "2016-07-17T17:16:53Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > BLM never stood for Black Lives Matter. If it did it would focus on the ridiculously high levels of violence within the black community. It stands for Black Lives Matter Only If It Involves a Handful Being Killed By Someone Who Isn’t Black. It started with a juvenile delinquent who died attacking someone and then over a thug/thief who attacked a store clerk and then a policeman. That quickly ramped up to large scale protests designed to disrupt public freedoms and cause economic damage against people and businesses that had nothing to do with their cause. > > To date their successes are measured in burned out businesses and dead police officers who had zero to do with anything. Virtually everything they do is designed to disrupt society in a racially divisive manner and it attracts violent racist groups such as the New Black Panthers. > > There are more black people killed in Chicago alone in any given [MONTH](https://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/2016-chicago-murders)then the combined group of people BLM has protested over since it’s founding 3 YEARS ago. So if their message isn’t getting the public support they think it deserves it’s because they’re going about it in a divisive and destructive manner. You can’t beat a message of support into society with a stick. I expect more economic damage and more police shootings as a result of their actions. BLM leaders and advocates have repeatedly denounced black-on-black crime, and have done so for decades (since long before BLM existed as a movement). It’s entirely possible to protest mistreatment by law enforcement while also opposing crime and violence from other sectors. ---
**Author:** ![Me\_Billy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Me\_Billy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Me_Billy)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-saying-all-lives-matter-is-racist-according-to-a-blms-co-founder/760083/60 "2016-07-17T17:21:37Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > “Support the Troops!” > > “We should support _everyone_!” I support athletes. Yes I have been an “athletic supporter” for quite some time! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-saying-all-lives-matter-is-racist-according-to-a-blms-co-founder/760083.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-saying-all-lives-matter-is-racist-according-to-a-blms-co-founder/760083.md?page=4)