# Apparently saying "all lives matter" is racist according to a BLM's co-founder. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 16, 2016, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-saying-all-lives-matter-is-racist-according-to-a-blms-co-founder/760083 "2016-07-16T23:16:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-saying-all-lives-matter-is-racist-according-to-a-blms-co-founder/760083/61 "2016-07-17T17:34:35Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Yes, there is a basic difference. The exponential amount of murders within black communities. Ignoring this in the face of a handful of deaths (by someone who is not black) is a poorly framed movement made worse by it’s tactics and supporters. > > As it is going now there will be more economic damage, and more officers killed as a result of this blatantly racist movement. It’s not simply a question of numbers; it’s a question of principle. Should we, as a matter of principle, hold Persons A, B, and C responsible for the actions of Person’s D, E, and F just because they happen to share the same skin color? Your answer seems to be “Yes, if they are black.” But i guess it’s really the BLM movement that’s racist, right? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-saying-all-lives-matter-is-racist-according-to-a-blms-co-founder/760083/62 "2016-07-17T18:07:26Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > BLM leaders and advocates have repeatedly denounced black-on-black crime, and have done so for decades (since long before BLM existed as a movement). > > It’s entirely possible to protest mistreatment by law enforcement while also opposing crime and violence from other sectors. Exactly. The BLM website has a list of [11 Major Misconceptions About the Black Lives Matter Movement](http://blacklivesmatter.com/11-major-misconceptions-about-the-black-lives-matter-movement/). Have a guess what the first one on the list is: > [@](#): > > 1. The movement doesn’t care about black-on-black crime. The idea that black-on-black crime is not a significant political conversation among black people is patently false. In Chicago, long maligned for its high rates of intraracial murder, members of the community created the Violence Interrupters to disrupt violent altercations before they escalate. However, those who insist on talking about black-on-black crime frequently fail to acknowledge that most crime is intraracial. Ninety-three percent of black murder victims are killed by other black people. Eighty-four percent of white murder victims are killed by other white people. The continued focus on black-on-black crime is a diversionary tactic, whose goal is to suggest that black people don’t have the right to be outraged about police violence in vulnerable black communities, because those communities have a crime problem. The Black Lives Matter movement acknowledges the crime problem, but it refuses to locate that crime problem as a problem of black pathology. Black people are not inherently more violent or more prone to crime than other groups. But black people are disproportionately poorer, more likely to be targeted by police and arrested, and more likely to attend poor or failing schools. All of these social indicators place one at greater risk for being either a victim or a perpetrator of violent crime. To reduce violent crime, we must fight to change systems, rather than demonizing people. ---
**Author:** ![Jamicat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c67d28/32.png) [@Jamicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamicat)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-saying-all-lives-matter-is-racist-according-to-a-blms-co-founder/760083/63 "2016-07-17T18:10:43Z")
“All Lives Matter”, is Inclusive, it is racially ambiguous. “Black Lives Matter”, is Exclusive to anyone not Black, thus not racially ambiguous. One is not racist, while the other is by definition, racist. What the dilemma? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-saying-all-lives-matter-is-racist-according-to-a-blms-co-founder/760083/64 "2016-07-17T18:24:41Z")
> [@Jamicat](#): > > “All Lives Matter”, is Inclusive, it is racially ambiguous. > > “Black Lives Matter”, is Exclusive to anyone not Black, thus not racially ambiguous. > > One is not racist, while the other is by definition, racist. > > What the dilemma? :dubious: I wouldn’t go that far; it’s true that All Lives Matter includes Black Lives Matter – but Black Lives Matter doesn’t _exclude_ All Lives Matter; it could mean that, it could mean the opposite, it doesn’t explicitly rule out other stuff, it doesn’t explicitly include it. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-saying-all-lives-matter-is-racist-according-to-a-blms-co-founder/760083/65 "2016-07-17T18:56:03Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The exponential amount of murders within black communities. That first four-syllable word does not mean what you think it does, if anything. Report to the Pit! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-saying-all-lives-matter-is-racist-according-to-a-blms-co-founder/760083/66 "2016-07-17T19:09:17Z")
> [@Jamicat](#): > > “All Lives Matter”, is Inclusive, it is racially ambiguous. > > “Black Lives Matter”, is Exclusive to anyone not Black, thus not racially ambiguous. > > One is not racist, while the other is by definition, racist. > > What the dilemma? :dubious: This logic makes no sense to me. “All lives matter” seems, to me, to be basically saying “everyone is equal”. Wasn’t Martin Luther King Jr’s speech hoping that one day all men would be equal? So…by your logic, MLK was spouting racist nonsense, that racist. I don’t get it and I never will. I understand that _in response to BLM, ALM has become racist and a bad thing to say to shut down discussion and be a racist jerk_…I’m saying, in general, _beyond those circumstances_, ALM is not inherently racist in and of itself. Because that’s like saying some who thinks everyone should be treated equal is a bad thing. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-saying-all-lives-matter-is-racist-according-to-a-blms-co-founder/760083/67 "2016-07-17T19:11:14Z")
I don’t think it’s racist, but it’s like saying “everyone should have support” to our troops. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-saying-all-lives-matter-is-racist-according-to-a-blms-co-founder/760083/68 "2016-07-17T19:12:43Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > This logic makes no sense to me. > “All lives matter” seems, to me, to be basically saying “everyone is equal”. > Wasn’t Martin Luther King Jr’s speech hoping that one day all men would be equal? > So…by your logic, MLK was spouting racist nonsense, that racist. > > I don’t get it and I never will. I understand that _in response to BLM, ALM has become racist and a bad thing to say to shut down discussion and be a racist jerk_…I’m saying, in general, _beyond those circumstances_, ALM is not inherently racist in and of itself. Because that’s like saying some who thinks everyone should be treated equal is a bad thing. Sure. But beyond those circumstances is outside the real world. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-saying-all-lives-matter-is-racist-according-to-a-blms-co-founder/760083/69 "2016-07-17T19:18:21Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > I understand that _in response to BLM, ALM has become racist and a bad thing to say to shut down discussion and be a racist jerk_…I’m saying, in general, _beyond those circumstances_, ALM is not inherently racist in and of itself. Because that’s like saying some who thinks everyone should be treated equal is a bad thing. LOL. “In the complete absence of social and political and historical context, completely divorced from any of the racial conflict and inequities that have characterized American society for the past centuries, completely ignoring the racial disparities in law enforcement, and leaving aside the specific ways in which it is used to respond to the BLM movement by opponents of that movement, uttering the words ‘all lives matter’ is not inherently racist.” Thanks for your blinding insight there! ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-saying-all-lives-matter-is-racist-according-to-a-blms-co-founder/760083/70 "2016-07-17T19:21:07Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > BLM leaders and advocates have repeatedly denounced black-on-black crime, and have done so for decades (since long before BLM existed as a movement). > > It’s entirely possible to protest mistreatment by law enforcement while also opposing crime and violence from other sectors. And its entirely possible to protest mistreatment by law enforcement of black people, and also acknowledge that excessive use of force by police is a problem across all communities without being racist. Its entirely possible to know that black people face unfair policing, and acknowledge that police have a difficult and dangerous job. Its a complex issue in ALL directions, and it doesn’t do anyone any good to throw around words like “racist.” Racist is frankly simply being used to cover too many things. When I think that someone is racist, I think that they won’t hire a qualified black person for a job. That they think my Asian son shouldn’t date a white girl. That they don’t want minorities living in their neighborhood. Racists blow up black churches and kill little girls. Being a racist is a serious thing. Calling someone a racist is a serious thing. Its currently used for anyone who commits microagressions. People who hold stereotypes - which are a normal part of the human condition and built into us. I don’t think everyone who thinks I’m stupid upon first meeting me because I’m a cute blonde woman with a big rack is a misogynist. I know that I’m at a disadvantage going into situations, but that’s an artifact of society, not of the individual I’m talking to. They are sexist if after talking to me for a while they haven’t re-evaluated their stereotype. They are misogynist if they intentionally harm me because I’m female. (note that I’m now 50 and my hair is currently auburn, but I’ve been a cute young blonde - and my daughter is currently a cute young blonde). I’m really careful talking to people about accusing them of being sexist - I have to see a pattern of behavior before I’m convinced. Because calling someone sexist is a big deal. I’m even more careful before I call a person a misogynist - because that is a BFD. In real life, most people I meet carry stereotypes about gender, a few of those have actually turned out to be sexist - unable to change their views when presented with an individual that doesn’t meet their preconceptions. A very few seem to be misogynists. And because I’d rather give people the benefit of the doubt before throwing nasty labels at them. Once I’ve done that, our chances of having a reasonable dialog about the state of women is lost. And that’s what’s happening right now. The word racist is being thrown around in such a way as to turn off those people who don’t want discriminatory practices, but carry some stereotypes, make insensitive statements, and live their lives in a white privilege bubble - those people aren’t racists - they are just rag mannered, not well informed about the topic (and frankly, often have no interest in being lectured to - the world is full of problems, outrage fatigue is real, and they are worried about other things - their jobs, their stagnant incomes, their kid’s schools). And we will risk the word’s ability to describe people who target blacks. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-saying-all-lives-matter-is-racist-according-to-a-blms-co-founder/760083/71 "2016-07-17T19:25:15Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Sure. But beyond those circumstances is outside the real world. Yes, I get/understand/know/realize/[choose your own synonym] that. And I think it’s stupid and ridiculous that it’s that way…that it’s seen as a “beyond the real world” position. Do I have that right? ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-saying-all-lives-matter-is-racist-according-to-a-blms-co-founder/760083/72 "2016-07-17T19:28:21Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Thanks for your blinding insight there! What’s the difference between “All lives matter” and “everyone is equal”? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-saying-all-lives-matter-is-racist-according-to-a-blms-co-founder/760083/73 "2016-07-17T19:32:46Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > Yes, I get/understand/know/realize/[choose your own synonym] that. OK. I’m glad that the ignorance you showed in OP has been fought. I’m still curious about the answer to my question, however. How did someone who “agrees with and supports the BLM movement” end up reading an article at [endingthefed.com](http://endingthefed.com) ? Does not compute. Was it part of some fraternity hazing ritual? ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-saying-all-lives-matter-is-racist-according-to-a-blms-co-founder/760083/74 "2016-07-17T19:33:50Z")
It was on FB, where I get all/most of my news. No ignorance has been fought by your definition. I wasn’t taught anything I didn’t already know. I still disagree with the article and think it’s stupid, as I just said…although I think that’s less of an ignorance thing and more of a “I hate that it’s this way” as I just said two posts up. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-saying-all-lives-matter-is-racist-according-to-a-blms-co-founder/760083/75 "2016-07-17T19:39:25Z")
> [@Jamicat](#): > > “All Lives Matter”, is Inclusive, it is racially ambiguous. > > “Black Lives Matter”, is Exclusive to anyone not Black, thus not racially ambiguous. > > One is not racist, while the other is by definition, racist. > > What the dilemma? :dubious: By definition? What definition of “racist” are you using? I’m pretty sure it doesn’t mean “mentioning race.” ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-saying-all-lives-matter-is-racist-according-to-a-blms-co-founder/760083/76 "2016-07-17T20:16:47Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > Yes, I get/understand/know/realize/[choose your own synonym] that. And I think it’s stupid and ridiculous that it’s that way…that it’s seen as a “beyond the real world” position. Do I have that right? Of course. I think you’re wrong, but it’s not a huge deal. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-saying-all-lives-matter-is-racist-according-to-a-blms-co-founder/760083/77 "2016-07-17T21:20:57Z")
If this movement has no more significance than a Miller Lite commercial then this argument makes sense. The cause is not about something that emerged in Florida a few years ago, this is a problem inherent in our society, and I thought the intention of BLM was to highlight that nothing is being done about the disparate treatment of African Americans in this country. Calling people racists because they say ‘All lives matter’ isn’t helping. There’s no point in discussing the subject at all with the type of person who doesn’t see that society has a responsibility to take action to end generations of discriminatory practices. There is hope in convincing well meaning people that more has to be done than simply speaking of equality, they can understand that we are far from the ideals we espouse and we have serious problems that need correction. Those people will be harder to reach if you call them racists. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-saying-all-lives-matter-is-racist-according-to-a-blms-co-founder/760083/78 "2016-07-17T21:49:46Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > That first four-syllable word does not mean what you think it does, if anything. Report to the Pit! 😃 It means exactly what it means. I posted a link showing the deaths so far in Chicago by month and day. The numbers cannot be ignored or hand waved away. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-saying-all-lives-matter-is-racist-according-to-a-blms-co-founder/760083/79 "2016-07-17T22:00:46Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > Do you know that more than 85% of white people who are murdered are killed by other white people? actually it’s 84% but lets expand on what you just said. [According to the US Department of Justice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States), blacks accounted for 52.5% of homicide offenders from 1980 to 2008, with whites 45.3% and “Other” 2.2%. The offending rate for blacks was almost 8 times higher than whites, and the victim rate 6 times higher. Most homicides were intraracial, with 84% of white victims killed by whites, and 93% of black victims killed by blacks. > [@DrFidelius](#): > > Why doesn’t anyone bring up “White on White crime?” Why do you put the extra blame and responsibility on Black citizens? Because BLM specifically focuses on black lives and a rate that is 8 times higher rate is an 800% difference. It’s relevant to the discussion about black lives actually mattering. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-saying-all-lives-matter-is-racist-according-to-a-blms-co-founder/760083/80 "2016-07-17T22:07:05Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It means exactly what it means. I posted a link showing the deaths so far in Chicago by month and day. > > The numbers cannot be ignored or hand waved away. No-one is ignoring or hand-waving the numbers. The number of shootings and killings in Chicago is large, and is incredibly depressing. He was simply noting that your use of the word “exponential” demonstrates an ignorance of what that word means. Exponential does not mean “large” or “incredibly big” or “significant” or “massive.” Here is a [graph](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Chicago#/media/File:Chicago_Murder_Rates.png) of the number of homicides in Chicago since the early 1960s. Ask a mathematician if the line in this graph represent exponential change in the the murder rate, especially over the last 10 years or so. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-saying-all-lives-matter-is-racist-according-to-a-blms-co-founder/760083.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apparently-saying-all-lives-matter-is-racist-according-to-a-blms-co-founder/760083.md?page=5)