# Apple ditching 3.5mm headphone jack on iPhone 7 **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 9, 2016, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apple-ditching-3-5mm-headphone-jack-on-iphone-7/742568 "2016-01-09T05:19:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2016, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apple-ditching-3-5mm-headphone-jack-on-iphone-7/742568/41 "2016-01-10T21:42:36Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > To play Devil’s advocate here, the marketing folks would say that this change is a huge benefit for folks like you. The Lightning connector allows the iPhone to supply both the power and the processing that those big, heavy, clunky noise cancelling headphones require. The end result is that you only need 1 set of headphones, they’ll be as light and portable as your running set and still deliver all the benefits of the bulky ones. And because you need fewer specialized pairs you can afford to spend a little more for higher quality. Except for these 4 things: 1. I already own headphones using the 3.5mm jack. 2. I doubt I’d want to run with even externally-powered noise-cancelling headphones. I use a really lightweight headphone for running, and I suspect the external ones will still be too large, since all the ones I’ve seen cover your entire ear. 3. I own other devices that I use the headphones with. 4. If there was really a market for lightweight, noise-cancelling headphones that drew their power from lightning, we’d already have them. Lightning can carry audio now, IIRC, and even if not, the headphones could plug into both the 3.5mm jack and the lightning connector. Or 3.5mm + USB for other devices. (FWIW, it appears these _do_ exist, but there doesn’t actually seem to be a lot of demand.) > [@](#): > > Though, there’s nothing stopping companies from developing these today apart from the inertia of the legacy port, so who knows. Well, that and consumer demand. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2016, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apple-ditching-3-5mm-headphone-jack-on-iphone-7/742568/42 "2016-01-10T21:46:24Z")
I have a set of wireless headphones for my PC: wireless rocks. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2016, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apple-ditching-3-5mm-headphone-jack-on-iphone-7/742568/43 "2016-01-10T21:49:35Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > Because if they wanted small and easy they could have gone to USB micro but instead went to their own proprietary standard. Meh, I don’t have very many USB Micro gadgets (a camera and a PS3 controller are all I can think of off the top of my head) so a proprietary Lightning cord doesn’t really bug me. Plus, it’s reversible and USB Micro isn’t. Reversible trumps non-proprietary in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2016, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apple-ditching-3-5mm-headphone-jack-on-iphone-7/742568/44 "2016-01-10T22:08:33Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Meh, I don’t have very many USB Micro gadgets (a camera and a PS3 controller are all I can think of off the top of my head) so a proprietary Lightning cord doesn’t really bug me. Plus, it’s reversible and USB Micro isn’t. Reversible trumps non-proprietary in my opinion. I don’t know if I could even come up with a complete list for my household. Two cameras. A couple of sets of bike lights. Three e-readers. An external keyboard case for my ipad. Any number of kids’ toys. Two sets of bluetooth earphones (for charging). All these are micro USB and need just one cable. Plus a lightning cable for Mr & Mrs “WeAreSpecialandDifferent”: my iphone and ipad. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2016, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apple-ditching-3-5mm-headphone-jack-on-iphone-7/742568/45 "2016-01-10T22:29:53Z")
> [@pidgeon92](#): > > Sounds good to me. I remember when Macs started shipping without a floppy drive. Everybody was up in arms then. Then they started shipping without optical drives. Now many computers don’t have those either. The difference is that floppies and optical data discs are all purely within the realm of computer technology and have readily been superseded by superior technology without any big impact on legacy investments elsewhere and with clearly superior results – although even so, diagnosing an errant laptop with no optical drive is still sometimes a pain. Converting bootable CD media to a bootable USB stick isn’t always straightforward. And how about when you want to watch movies from a DVD or Blu-ray collection, especially if you’re traveling and want to take some movies with you? No doubt the correct answer is to buy the movie again from the iTunes store, assuming they have it. :rolleyes: But the headphone jack is in a different class entirely. It has nothing to do with computers or mobile devices – it’s a long-established standard in the audio field. > [@pidgeon92](#): > > My headphones are already bluetooth. As that technology improves, why anyone would want a cable connected to their device is beyond me. I’ll give you some reasons. In the high-end arena of high-performance headphones, Bluetooth headphones are still few and far between, and some of the most respected manufacturers (like Grado) don’t make them at all. I won’t get into the discussion of whether Bluetooth itself is inherently inferior to a wired connection because I simply don’t know, but the very best it could hope for is to maybe be close enough that you couldn’t tell the difference. I wouldn’t be surprised if Bluetooth is the future for casual headphones, and maybe, eventually, for almost all high-end headphones, too, but that future isn’t going to be here for quite some time. Meanwhile, I have a significant investment in my headphones – not just in dollar terms, but in terms of the long search to find something I’m truly happy with – and if Apple thinks I’m going to toss them in the garbage because Apple no longer likes the industry-standard connector, they are sorely mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2016, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apple-ditching-3-5mm-headphone-jack-on-iphone-7/742568/46 "2016-01-10T22:49:47Z")
My Humble Opinion? **Fuck Apple!** ---
**Author:** ![pidgeon92](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/50afbb/32.png) [@pidgeon92](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pidgeon92)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2016, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apple-ditching-3-5mm-headphone-jack-on-iphone-7/742568/47 "2016-01-10T23:58:12Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > …and if Apple thinks I’m going to toss them in the garbage because Apple no longer likes the industry-standard connector, they are sorely mistaken. I doubt they think that… …and I doubt they care. I’m guessing audiophiles aren’t their target market for iPhones. ---
**Author:** ![zbuzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@zbuzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zbuzz)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apple-ditching-3-5mm-headphone-jack-on-iphone-7/742568/48 "2016-01-11T00:39:50Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > Plus a lightning cable for Mr & Mrs “WeAreSpecialandDifferent”: my iphone and ipad. Your Lightning connector is reversible, generally more durable than micro USB, can charge your iPad much faster than micro USB and allows for more than just charging and syncing. You’d be happy to fumble with the connector, have it break on you more often and wait an extra hour every time you charge your iPad just to be able to use the same connector as a bike light? ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apple-ditching-3-5mm-headphone-jack-on-iphone-7/742568/49 "2016-01-11T00:49:35Z")
I don’t find the reversal thing a problem. Lack of reversibility is a pain with connectors round the back of computers where you can’t see what you are doing but putting a connector in a handheld device where you can see very easily is nothing to me. Not even an issue. Don’t know about durability, never had either break. I had a lightning connector wear out. It was a cheap shit knockoff lightning connector. I bought a cheap shit lightning connector rather than an Apple original because, well you know why, right? You are familiar with the word “gouging”? You say it can charge “much” faster: [10% actually](https://techpinions.com/why-apple-couldnt-go-to-micro-usb-charging/10212). Big frickin’ deal. And only for the iPad. Micro-USB also allows for more than synching and charging. And you will note that I listed far more than a bike light, but you chose only to mention the bike light. Do you need to understate my case to refute it? Why, yes you do. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apple-ditching-3-5mm-headphone-jack-on-iphone-7/742568/50 "2016-01-11T02:25:14Z")
> [@pidgeon92](#): > > I doubt they think that… > > …and I doubt they care. I’m guessing audiophiles aren’t their target market for iPhones. I don’t know wolfpup, so I don’t know whether he is an audiophile, and I don’t know whether he considers himself an audiophile. I know that for myself, I am certainly not an audiophile. And I have exactly the same belief as wolfpup. I have long struggled to find comfortable and useful headphone, and I have no intention to part with them. Nor do I want a phone that won’t interoperate with them. Now you may be right that Apple won’t care, because I’m just one customer. With wolfpup we make two. But I think selling a phone without a headphone jack is probably a non-starter for a fair number of potential customers. Maybe I’m wrong. ---
**Author:** ![zbuzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@zbuzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zbuzz)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apple-ditching-3-5mm-headphone-jack-on-iphone-7/742568/51 "2016-01-11T04:16:13Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > Don’t know about durability, never had either break. I had a lightning connector wear out. It was a cheap shit knockoff lightning connector. I bought a cheap shit lightning connector rather than an Apple original because, well you know why, right? You are familiar with the word “gouging”? I am, and now I know you are familiar with the term “you get what you pay for.” > [@Princhester](#): > > You say it can charge “much” faster: [10% actually](https://techpinions.com/why-apple-couldnt-go-to-micro-usb-charging/10212). Big frickin’ deal. And only for the iPad. Faster is faster. Is there a specific percentage where it would make a difference to you? 20%? 40%? Also, that same website says that due to the design of micro USB, it would cause the connector to overheat when charging an iPad. So, there’s another good reason for not using micro USB. > [@Princhester](#): > > And you will note that I listed far more than a bike light, but you chose only to mention the bike light. Do you need to understate my case to refute it? Why, yes you do. I used one example because I didn’t know I was obligated to list them all. You’re being overly sensitive. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apple-ditching-3-5mm-headphone-jack-on-iphone-7/742568/52 "2016-01-11T05:22:23Z")
> [@zbuzz](#): > > Faster is faster. Is there a specific percentage where it would make a difference to you? 20%? 40%? Also, that same website says that due to the design of micro USB, it would cause the connector to overheat when charging an iPad. So, there’s another good reason for not using micro USB. From the article: > [@](#): > > But the more likely result would be a 10% slowdown in the iPad’s charging rate, an especially unfortunate outcome on the already slow-charging third-generation device. Sounds like the real issue is some poor engineering on the part of the iPad’s battery in general. From a little browsing, it looks like it takes 5 hours to charge the iPad at the maximum rate? Yeesh. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apple-ditching-3-5mm-headphone-jack-on-iphone-7/742568/53 "2016-01-11T06:02:31Z")
> [@zbuzz](#): > > I am, and now I know you are familiar with the term “you get what you pay for.” > > Faster is faster. Is there a specific percentage where it would make a difference to you? 20%? 40%? Also, that same website says that due to the design of micro USB, it would cause the connector to overheat when charging an iPad. So, there’s another good reason for not using micro USB. > > I used one example because I didn’t know I was obligated to list them all. You’re being overly sensitive. “You get what you pay for” is largely bullshit; anyone who knows anything about retail knows that the reality is retailers charge what the market will bear. Apple are able to make the market bear more by leveraging their control over their non-proprietary design. That’s why it costs about 3x as much for an official lightning cable as a standard usb cable. I said I’d had one dodgy knock off lightning cable; my other knock off lightning cables have worked perfectly for years despite the fact they cost about 1/4 or less what Apple would charge me for the same thing. What does that tell you? Wheee! A slippery slope argument! You only need to indulge in a few more fallacies and I win at logical fallacy bingo! No 10% slower doesn’t bother me traded off against the inconvenience of having to have a special cable for iDevices. Yes 40% slower would bother me. Do I _really_ need to explain to you how something that gives little advantage isn’t worthwhile to me where something which gives very substantial advantage might be worthwhile? Really? I am not sensitive, I’m just pointing out the way you are being selective to attempt to gain (much needed) rhetorical advantage. I could understand if Apple didn’t bother conforming to a standard that only applied to bike lights. But when probably in excess of a dozen items can get it together to conform to a standard such that I can have one cable, and Apple has to be special, it understandably gives me the shits. > [@Jophiel](#): > > Sounds like the real issue is some poor engineering on the part of the iPad’s battery in general. From a little browsing, it looks like it takes 5 hours to charge the iPad at the maximum rate? Yeesh. Nah to be fair to Apple, it just has a big battery. You can’t break the laws of physics, if you have a big battery, the only way to charge it fast is with lots of current, and lots of current requires a certain size of connector. You can’t magically engineer that away. ---
**Author:** ![zbuzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@zbuzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zbuzz)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apple-ditching-3-5mm-headphone-jack-on-iphone-7/742568/54 "2016-01-11T08:22:54Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > “You get what you pay for” is largely bullshit; anyone who knows anything about retail knows that the reality is retailers charge what the market will bear. Apple are able to make the market bear more by leveraging their control over their non-proprietary design. That’s why it costs about 3x as much for an official lightning cable as a standard usb cable. I said I’d had one dodgy knock off lightning cable; my other knock off lightning cables have worked perfectly for years despite the fact they cost about 1/4 or less what Apple would charge me for the same thing. What does that tell you? Well for one thing, it tells me that this > [@Princhester](#): > > But when probably in excess of a dozen items can get it together to conform to a standard such that I can have one cable, and Apple has to be special, it understandably gives me the shits. hasn’t given you the shits too badly because you’ve apparently got plenty of working lighting cables lying around. > [@Princhester](#): > > Wheee! A slippery slope argument! You only need to indulge in a few more fallacies and I win at logical fallacy bingo! Wheee! A straw man argument! > [@Princhester](#): > > No 10% slower doesn’t bother me traded off against the inconvenience of having to have a special cable for iDevices. Yes 40% slower would bother me. Do I _really_ need to explain to you how something that gives little advantage isn’t worthwhile to me where something which gives very substantial advantage might be worthwhile? Really? The only argument you seem to be making is that everybody else uses micro USB, therefore Apple should to, because you already have a lot of micro USB cables. You consider that a very substantial advantage. Yet you’ve got lots of lightning cables lying around. And they were cheap. And they charge faster. And they are reversible. You’ve already got all the advantages, even if you don’t care you do. > [@Princhester](#): > > I am not sensitive, I’m just pointing out the way you are being selective to attempt to gain (much needed) rhetorical advantage. Seriously, was I supposed to list all your stuff? I think the problem is that you took the bike light example much too personally. Feel free to reinterpret the “you” in that example to be all inclusive because all I felt I was doing was pointing out some real world advantages of the lightning connector over micro USB. I get that you don’t think it has advantages in your daily use, but you do see that there are actual advantages, right? ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apple-ditching-3-5mm-headphone-jack-on-iphone-7/742568/55 "2016-01-11T10:29:13Z")
> [@zbuzz](#): > > Well for one thing, it tells me that this > > hasn’t given you the shits too badly because you’ve apparently got plenty of working lighting cables lying around. > > Wheee! A straw man argument! > > The only argument you seem to be making is that everybody else uses micro USB, therefore Apple should to, because you already have a lot of micro USB cables. You consider that a very substantial advantage. Yet you’ve got lots of lightning cables lying around. And they were cheap. And they charge faster. And they are reversible. You’ve already got all the advantages, even if you don’t care you do. > > Seriously, was I supposed to list all your stuff? I think the problem is that you took the bike light example much too personally. Feel free to reinterpret the “you” in that example to be all inclusive because all I felt I was doing was pointing out some real world advantages of the lightning connector over micro USB. I get that you don’t think it has advantages in your daily use, but you do see that there are actual advantages, right? What you should have understood is the fact that it’s not about quality it’s about leveraging their good phones to gouge on the price of proprietary cables. And you misunderstand (accidentally I’m sure) why I have the shits: I have the shits because Apple’s decision to use proprietary standards so that they can gouge customers on cables means I have to carry an extra cable just for Apple when everyone else seems to be able to use open standards. And no I did not use a strawman. I mocked your use of slippery slope. This isn’t hard: the advantage of lightning cables are trivial. You are yet to even respond meaningfully to the point that 10% extra charging time for ipads isn’t much, and reversibility is no bother for reasons given. The irritation of having to have two cables, and not being able to use existing cables, and being unable to charge my idevices despite the presence of other cables that are good enough to charge and connect pretty much every other device is greater. Please don’t say “but, but, you have heaps of lightning cables around”. I have locks on the doors and use them because I have to; that doesn’t mean thieves are OK. It means I have to have and use inconvenient things because other people do shitful things. Like Apple does with its proprietary bullshit. Sooner or later, after you’ve finished prattling on with your pathetic barbs about sensitivity and taking things personally, you may grasp the simple point I was making (and you were deliberately overlooking, oh yes you were) that there are _a lot_ of things around my house made by manufacturers who have the ability and lack of pweciousness to be able to standardise, while Apple is far too much the Special Snowflake to do anything so convenient. Deal with the argument instead of making shit up about my alleged emotional difficulties. Or can you not? ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apple-ditching-3-5mm-headphone-jack-on-iphone-7/742568/56 "2016-01-11T12:21:34Z")
**zubuzz** and **Princhester** , drop it — both of you. You want to talk about advantages/disadvantages? Enjoy. But leave the personal sniping out of this thread. ---
**Author:** ![MeanJoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanjoe/32/5693_2.png) [@MeanJoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanJoe)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apple-ditching-3-5mm-headphone-jack-on-iphone-7/742568/57 "2016-01-11T18:54:04Z")
Going from memory here but as I recall almost every new version of the iPhone has reduced the thickness in the form factor. Currently I have a 5S for personal use and a 6 for business and I really notice the difference in thickness between the two. Especially since I have to carry 2 phones on me, the thinner the better! I’ll upgrade my 5S to a 7 when it comes out, skipping over the 6 versions completely for personal use. I have no issues with this change, one less connector is a benefit to me. I can understand those who have invested significant sums of money into earbuds/headphones being upset. Fortunately I am a.) not an audiophile so standard quality earbuds/phones are fine for me and b.) I apparently have relatively normal ears and have never had an issue with the Apple earbuds nor most 3rd party earbuds. I’m kinda hoping Apple includes wireless bluetooth earbuds with the new phone. I usually only use earbuds when I’m doing some activity and I always end up getting the cord caught on something. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apple-ditching-3-5mm-headphone-jack-on-iphone-7/742568/58 "2016-01-11T20:24:17Z")
Apple: We give you less, and you’re going to like it. Oh, and pay twice as much for it. I’m sure the people that wait in line to get the new iPhones won’t care. The rest of us who are poorer/more frugal probably wouldn’t appreciate losing the headphone jack one bit. ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5ac83/32.png) [@Doug\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_K)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apple-ditching-3-5mm-headphone-jack-on-iphone-7/742568/59 "2016-01-11T23:25:20Z")
One of things that’s infuriating about this is it’s supposedly so they can make the phone thinner, when they’re already so thin as to be at the point of flimsy. Making it thinner will be the opposite of an improvement. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apple-ditching-3-5mm-headphone-jack-on-iphone-7/742568/60 "2016-01-12T01:02:41Z")
I’m not against the idea of them moving towards a replacement of the 3.5mm jack per se; it should be possible to do everything you want to do with one jack. The issue I have is just that of open standardisation. If the whole world is going to move to a new standard for analog out/mic in for small consumer devices I’m totally fine with that, but it should be an open standard so that _everyone_ can move to it. Not a lightning connector. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apple-ditching-3-5mm-headphone-jack-on-iphone-7/742568.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apple-ditching-3-5mm-headphone-jack-on-iphone-7/742568.md?page=4)