# Apple fans can resume bashing Intel chips **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 22, 2020, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apple-fans-can-resume-bashing-intel-chips/912048 "2020-06-22T20:48:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2020, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apple-fans-can-resume-bashing-intel-chips/912048/1 "2020-06-22T20:48:08Z")
Like they did before 2005. And then suddenly it stopped. 🙂 > **[Here's everything Apple just announced: iOS 14 will give iPhones a new home...](https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/22/apple-wwdc-2020-new-ios-macos-ipados-software.html)** > > During the WWDC 2020 keynote, Apple revealed iOS 14 with a new home screen for iPhones, iPadOS 14, macOS Big Sur, watchOS 7 and more. It also said it will begin to switch to using its own Apple chips instead of Intel chips in Macs. ---
**Author:** ![Hermitian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hermitian/32/470_2.png) [@Hermitian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermitian)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2020, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apple-fans-can-resume-bashing-intel-chips/912048/2 "2020-06-23T15:02:58Z")
IANACE (I Am Not A Chip Expert) It is not a real surprise to see Apple move on. Intel has to be everything for everyone and support decades of legacy architecture and baggage. That is not a recipe for light, power-sipping processing. Apple is more about mobile (how many desktops do they sell?), which is all about power consumption. ARM excels in that. Apple controls their walled garden enough to make everything conform and work with this. I am a little curious if they can get the ARM architecture to do heavy processing for desktops, but we will have to see. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2020, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apple-fans-can-resume-bashing-intel-chips/912048/3 "2020-06-23T15:53:00Z")
they were forced to go to Intel because the Power chips were falling way behind. That could happen again. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2020, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apple-fans-can-resume-bashing-intel-chips/912048/4 "2020-06-23T19:09:56Z")
I know a microprocessor designer who joined Apple about 5 years ago, so this has been going on for some time. (Microprocessor design cycles are not short.) Lots of big users are rolling their own since ARM cores make it reasonably simple to develop a custom processor. No inside information - Apple makes the NSA look like a bunch of blabbermouths. ---
**Author:** ![SlackWithHonor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackwithhonor/32/2954_2.png) [@SlackWithHonor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackWithHonor)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2020, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apple-fans-can-resume-bashing-intel-chips/912048/5 "2020-06-23T20:58:51Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > they were forced to go to Intel because the Power chips were falling way behind. That could happen again. By like a year and a half! That’s an incredible amount in the tech world. Probably why a bunch of Hackintosh builds I’ve been hearing about have been constructed around AMD chips. It makes sense, in the general; Tim Cook would be negligent for not taking _some_ action and if it results in some faster Macs, great. My only concern is that aforementioned Hackintosh. I’m using a hack right now, and not only can I build myself my own machine for half price, it can also emulate Windows with ease because the chip is right there. I’m a little worried that my upgrade path is about to stop and that if I got an actual Mac that my ability to emulate at a native speed will be gone (or even gone entirely). ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2020, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apple-fans-can-resume-bashing-intel-chips/912048/6 "2020-06-23T22:24:15Z")
The real question is: will applications be updated quickly enough to make the transition? Will there be an Intel emulation mode or even an Intel coprocessor? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2020, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apple-fans-can-resume-bashing-intel-chips/912048/7 "2020-06-23T22:29:51Z")
I had been under the impression that Apple had long since been relying almost totally on TSMC; I guess I was mistaken? ---
**Author:** ![zbuzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@zbuzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zbuzz)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2020, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apple-fans-can-resume-bashing-intel-chips/912048/8 "2020-06-23T22:54:38Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > they were forced to go to Intel because the Power chips were falling way behind. That could happen again. It already happened again but this time it’s Intel falling behind. The Intel roadmap has seen delays, a limited supply of CPUs has at times constrained Mac sales, and Apple is very focused performance-per-watt which is something its own chips excel at. ---
**Author:** ![zbuzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@zbuzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zbuzz)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2020, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apple-fans-can-resume-bashing-intel-chips/912048/9 "2020-06-23T23:04:44Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > The real question is: will applications be updated quickly enough to make the transition? Will there be an Intel emulation mode or even an Intel coprocessor? A process called Rosetta 2 will automatically translate most Intel apps when installed on ARM based Macs. There hasn’t been any talk of an Intel coprocessor. Apparently, Microsoft and even Adobe are already onboard with writing new code for their apps and Apple said the vast majority of devs could update their apps in a few days. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2020, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apple-fans-can-resume-bashing-intel-chips/912048/10 "2020-06-23T23:10:32Z")
And not only that, but Rosetta 2 will _not_ be a JIT emulator. The _State of the Platforms_ presentation indicated that all of the AMD64 code will be converted at installation, if possible, and drop back to JIT as needed, e.g., VM’s running arbitrary AMD64/X86 code. This has me a bit concerned, as the demos during the keynote would have been pre-converted, not using the JIT, which made them really, really fast. I don’t know how performant Windows will be, because although the VM can be pre-converted, macOS has no knowledge of what happens inside the VM, meaning that’s all JIT. The performance we saw with Maya may be dog slow inside a VM. ---
**Author:** ![zbuzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@zbuzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zbuzz)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2020, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apple-fans-can-resume-bashing-intel-chips/912048/11 "2020-06-23T23:20:24Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I had been under the impression that Apple had long since been relying almost totally on TSMC; I guess I was mistaken? Apple has used TSMC as the sole manufacturer for its A-series processors for about the last 4 generations or so, since the A10 I think. That’s for iPhones, iPads, etc. But the main CPU in every Mac is Intel. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2020, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apple-fans-can-resume-bashing-intel-chips/912048/12 "2020-06-24T11:51:15Z")
Apple just added widgets to iphone , Android had them in 2008. Better late than never. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2020, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apple-fans-can-resume-bashing-intel-chips/912048/13 "2020-06-25T10:43:02Z")
This thread is about Intel chips, and non-phone computers, so your point is really meaningless here. ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2020, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apple-fans-can-resume-bashing-intel-chips/912048/14 "2020-06-25T11:13:30Z")
> [@zbuzz](#): > > A process called Rosetta 2 will automatically translate most Intel apps when installed on ARM based Macs. And how long will it be before Apple decids to get rid of Rosetta 2? I guess Bootcamp will no longer be an option. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2020, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apple-fans-can-resume-bashing-intel-chips/912048/15 "2020-06-25T11:51:23Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > I don’t know how performant Windows will be, because although the VM can be pre-converted, macOS has no knowledge of what happens inside the VM, meaning that’s all JIT. Is there any reason Windows users couldn’t just use Windows 10 for ARM, which is soon adding Win64 support to the already existing Win32 support? ---
**Author:** ![zbuzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@zbuzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zbuzz)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2020, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apple-fans-can-resume-bashing-intel-chips/912048/16 "2020-06-25T11:56:31Z")
> [@elmwood](#): > > And how long will it be before Apple decids to get rid of Rosetta 2? > > I guess Bootcamp will no longer be an option. I have no idea how long Rosetta 2 will be around, but if history is a guide the original Rosetta during the PowerPC to Intel transition was available for almost 5 years. As for Bootcamp, yeah it’s probably safe to say it’s a non-starter on ARM based Macs. ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Sponge](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dark_sponge/32/121_2.png) [@Dark\_Sponge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dark_Sponge)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2020, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apple-fans-can-resume-bashing-intel-chips/912048/17 "2020-06-25T15:24:07Z")
Yes, it reminds me of how they claimed their OS was superior to all others then switched to Linux with a pretty bow tied on top. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2020, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apple-fans-can-resume-bashing-intel-chips/912048/18 "2020-06-25T15:28:11Z")
I thought Apple had the most arrogant fans but I think Linux fans have surpassed them. Linux folks hate both Windows PCs and Macs , many won’t run any software that is not open source. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2020, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apple-fans-can-resume-bashing-intel-chips/912048/19 "2020-06-25T15:35:04Z")
Cite? And, OS X is based on FreeBSD, not Linux. ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Sponge](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dark_sponge/32/121_2.png) [@Dark\_Sponge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dark_Sponge)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2020, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apple-fans-can-resume-bashing-intel-chips/912048/20 "2020-06-25T17:07:53Z")
I was referring to the old school mac to OS X conversion but yes you are right. It is Unix, not Linux. > **[Classic Mac OS](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classic_Mac_OS)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > Mac OS (originally System Software; retronym: Classic Mac OS\[a\]) is the series of operating systems developed for the Macintosh family of personal computers by Apple Computer from 1984 to 2001, starting with System 1 and ending with Mac OS 9. The Macintosh operating system is credited with having popularized the graphical user interface concept. It was included with every Macintosh that was sold during the era in which it was developed, and many upd... [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apple-fans-can-resume-bashing-intel-chips/912048.md?page=2)