# Apple's New Mini Mac tempts me **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 12, 2005, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apples-new-mini-mac-tempts-me/284344 "2005-01-12T04:58:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![parkov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/71e660/32.png) [@parkov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/parkov)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apples-new-mini-mac-tempts-me/284344/41 "2005-01-13T20:01:31Z")
I recommend Panic’s [Transmit](http://www.panic.com/transmit/) for your Mac’s FTP client. They’re set to release the next major version [very soon](http://www.maccompanion.com/ExpressionEngine1.2/index.php?/weblog/panic_tranmit_30_macworld_sf/). ---
**Author:** ![MontrealChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b38774/32.png) [@MontrealChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MontrealChick)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apples-new-mini-mac-tempts-me/284344/42 "2005-01-13T20:18:25Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > Do people really still call them “IBM Compatibles?” Freaky. > > Note: IBM no longer makes IBM Compatibles. > [@Mathochist](#): > > Properly they’re “PC compatibles”. I used to own a PC, but almost nobody else I know ever did. > [@Walloon](#): > > Not a good term. “PC” stands for personal computer. Macs are personal computers too. > > “Windows-based” is a better term. > [@SPOOFE](#): > > Windows-based is equally flawed, because you’ll get a horde of Linux fanatics coming after you with torches and pitchforks. > > “IBM Compatible”, however, is extremely funny, because IBM helped design the chips… for Macs. > > I guess PC’s should be called “IBM Incompatibles”? I’m glad that my choice of terms was comical to some of you! I really didn’t know what to call my “type” of PC to say it wasn’t a mac. It took me a while to settle with IBM compatible, I hadn’t heard it for a while but didn’t know of another more accurate term. So what exactly do we call our computers? Is IBM compatible still the most accurate term, even though it is outdated? MC ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apples-new-mini-mac-tempts-me/284344/43 "2005-01-13T20:30:13Z")
Typically, this nice, straightforward technical computer question has wandered over into the realm of comparing the sizes of joysticks (figuratively), so I think it will find a better home in **IMHO**. [/Moderator Mode] ---
**Author:** ![Mikahw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Mikahw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mikahw)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apples-new-mini-mac-tempts-me/284344/44 "2005-01-13T20:43:42Z")
> [@MontrealChick](#): > > So what exactly do we call our computers? Is IBM compatible still the most accurate term, even though it is outdated? I don’t know about most accurate, but even Apple uses the term “PC” for windows/IBM/whatever boxes. For example, the iPod ad says it works with “Mac or PC”. ---
**Author:** ![SolGrundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@SolGrundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SolGrundy)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apples-new-mini-mac-tempts-me/284344/45 "2005-01-13T21:44:19Z")
> [@parkov](#): > > I recommend Panic’s [Transmit](http://www.panic.com/transmit/) for your Mac’s FTP client. They’re set to release the next major version [very soon](http://www.maccompanion.com/ExpressionEngine1.2/index.php?/weblog/panic_tranmit_30_macworld_sf/). Just want to second the recommendation for Transmit. I bought it; I love it. ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apples-new-mini-mac-tempts-me/284344/46 "2005-01-13T21:47:46Z")
> [@eyewitness](#): > > The Mac mini is appealing, but I have a question for the Mac experts: What is Apple’s history with respect to the reliability and utility of new products? Is it safe to go out and buy a mini now/soon, or will a “new, improved” version be along in three months to fix problems in the original release? Also, does anybody (legitimately) sell Macs at a discount? The stores I’ve seen, both brick and internet, seem to adhere pretty closely to the list price. The “old” Apple was notorious for releasing less-than-ideal products and then revamping them, but they’re a lot better in this regard today. Oftentimes you will hear about 1.0 products suffering some particular quirk — with the Cube it was cracks in the casing, with the first G4s it was power buttons that broke off, and so on — but you’re talking more about manufacturing snafus than about major engineering defects or shortcomings. Apple has also been pretty good about rectifying these situations: when the last batch of G4 towers were reported to run very loud, Apple sent new power supplies for users to swap in, for free. As for getting new Macs cheap, it basically can’t be done. Just try to buy from a reseller that offers a free RAM upgrade or other goodies (MacWarehouse usually does) to help take the sting away. ---
**Author:** ![chefjef](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e480ec/32.png) [@chefjef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chefjef)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apples-new-mini-mac-tempts-me/284344/47 "2005-01-13T22:10:39Z")
> [@Nonsuch](#): > > The “old” Apple was notorious for releasing less-than-ideal products and then revamping them, but they’re a lot better in this regard today. Oftentimes you will hear about 1.0 products suffering some particular quirk — with the Cube it was cracks in the casing, with the first G4s it was power buttons that broke off, and so on — but you’re talking more about manufacturing snafus than about major engineering defects or shortcomings. Apple has also been pretty good about rectifying these situations: when the last batch of G4 towers were reported to run very loud, Apple sent new power supplies for users to swap in, for free. > > As for getting new Macs cheap, it basically can’t be done. Just try to buy from a reseller that offers a free RAM upgrade or other goodies (MacWarehouse usually does) to help take the sting away. But still – I don’t understand why they’re SO $$$$? ---
**Author:** ![SpartanDC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b2d939/32.png) [@SpartanDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpartanDC)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apples-new-mini-mac-tempts-me/284344/48 "2005-01-13T22:45:43Z")
> [@chefjef](#): > > But still – I don’t understand why they’re SO $$$$? Part of it is because Apple, until the Mac mini, didn’t really offer a “stripped down” computer. Those $499 Dells you see often don’t include networking cards or committed video memory or anything beyond a plain old CD-ROM drive. Remember, every single Mac includes an ethernet port, FireWire , at least a combo optical drive (burns CDs, plays CDs and DVDs) and a video card that doesn’t share its memory with the main CPU (though I do agree that the Mac mini’s video card is too underpowered for serious gaming). I’ve seen many cases where someone went to Dell’s site and souped up one of their computers to where it was comparable to a given Mac, and the price difference wasn’t that much. Also, Apple knows that its customers will pay more for elegant design. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apples-new-mini-mac-tempts-me/284344/49 "2005-01-13T23:03:17Z")
Regarding “PC Compatable,” etc., one term I sometimes hear is “Wintel.” (Windows/Intel) While outdated (we’ve got AMD processors now, and Linux), it makes a certain amount of sense. While most people assume that “PC” means Intel/AMD computers, the fact that Macs have “PC” in the computer’s name (PowerPC) makes “PC” not . . . quite . . . right to describe these Windows/Linux/AMD/Intel/Whatever computers. At least not to some people. And as far as Apple buying software and then making it Mac-only, I just can’t muster up a whole lot of sympathy about that. Plenty of companies decide to not carry a Mac version for their software, for financial reasons, for apathy reasons, or whatever. Not that there isn’t plenty of stuff available for Macs (including Mac-only stuff), but now and then, Mac users find that they can’t run some software that they’d like to run. So why should Windows users assume that they will always have it better? That there should _always_ be a Windows version available? There is no moral obligation to make a Mac _or_ Windows version of any given piece of software. It’s up to the manufacturer. (Of course, those of us using the platform that is left out reserve the right to bitch. Naturally! ;)) ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apples-new-mini-mac-tempts-me/284344/50 "2005-01-13T23:10:45Z")
> [@MontrealChick](#): > > So what exactly do we call our computers? Is IBM compatible still the most accurate term, even though it is outdated? I generally call them \_\_\_\_ boxes - but even that gets confused if I boot a Windows box with a Knoppix CD, turning it into a Linux box. “Wintel” and “Lintel” are also popular ways to describe Windows and Linux running on Intel (eg: Pentium) hardware, but I’ve not seen a corresponding “WAMD” and “LAMD” for the AMD procs. Back to Mac Mini - mark my words - this will be the one to buy when your mom wants a computer. I know it’ll be what I recommend for my mother - she’s a touch technophobic and the vagaries of her current 5-year-old Pentium II laptop with Win98 bring her to the edge of panic attacks. ---
**Author:** ![cstamets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/958977/32.png) [@cstamets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cstamets)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apples-new-mini-mac-tempts-me/284344/51 "2005-01-14T00:06:20Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > Do people really still call them “IBM Compatibles?” Freaky. > > [sub]Note: IBM no longer makes IBM Compatibles. ;)[/sub] As long as everyone’s being weird about what to call non-Macs, I’ll just point out that IBM never made “IBM compatibles”. IBM made IBMs. Everyone else made “IBM compatibles” x86 doesn’t even work anymore if Itaniums are involved. I’d say we call them “Bob”, but Microsoft probably still owns the trademark. ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apples-new-mini-mac-tempts-me/284344/52 "2005-01-14T01:56:26Z")
> [@iamthewalrus(:3=](#): > > You void your warranty by opening the thing up. But another option may be to bring it in to an apple store or authorized service place (assuming you have one nearby), and ask them to swap out the memory with a chip you bring in. I’m going to wait and see how this pans out before I get one. > > But, yeah, Apple tends to ream you on the add-ons. > > Add me to the list of people who are definitely getting one. I’m going to wait until they start shipping with 10.4, though. Seems silly to buy a brand new computer and just get another copy of an OS I already have. You will NOT void your warrantee by opening the Mini, if it’s not damaged. As said before, you’ll be left with an unised 256 Mb memory stick if you upgrade yourself though. I’ve got a 1Ghz G4 iBook with 512 mb of RAM. If you’re not doing pure Video work, 512 is a good amount for OS X…and it’s a much more reasonable upgrade from apple at $75. (I paid $64 for my _256_ mb SODIMM in my iBook about three months ago.) 99.99\_9\_% of the people buying this Mac won’t need or fully use a Gig of RAM. And I flat LOVE my iBook. Bought it based on my experience with my iPod. ---
**Author:** ![stockton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@stockton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stockton)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apples-new-mini-mac-tempts-me/284344/53 "2005-01-14T02:31:28Z")
> [@SolGrundy](#): > > Just want to second the recommendation for Transmit. I bought it; I love it. …and a third. Transmit is awesomely good. Beats the pants off of Fetch. It’s my default ftp client software, and I have to send and import files all day long. Transmit is da bomb. Three thumbs up. ---
**Author:** ![Mathochist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c89c15/32.png) [@Mathochist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mathochist)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apples-new-mini-mac-tempts-me/284344/54 "2005-01-14T03:12:00Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > Not a good term. “PC” stands for personal computer. Macs are personal computers too. > > “Windows-based” is a better term. “PC” is actually a specific machine: the IBM Model 5150 “Personal Computer”. This is the “PC” that “compatibles” are compatible with. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apples-new-mini-mac-tempts-me/284344/55 "2005-01-14T03:17:27Z")
> [@Mathochist](#): > > “PC” is actually a specific machine: the IBM Model 5150 “Personal Computer”. This is the “PC” that “compatibles” are compatible with. Interesting. I did not know that. It does get confusing, however, when you’ve got “Power **PC** ” on the Mac side. ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apples-new-mini-mac-tempts-me/284344/56 "2005-01-14T03:24:32Z")
> [@chefjef](#): > > But still – I don’t understand why they’re SO $$$$? It’s harder to compete at the bottom than at the top. Selling a cheap box means margins are lower, which gives Apple less money to put back into R&D, which retards their ability to innovate—and Apple’s innovation is ultimately why its users are so loyal. It also means you need a hell of an efficient supply chain, and while Apple’s inventory management is pretty good, Dell is the best in the business; you’re not going to beat them playing by their rules. I think the reason we’re seeing the Mac mini now is twofold: not only is this a good time for Apple to attract new users, the iPod’s popularity (and high margins) gives Apple a cushion to fall back on if the mini’s success eats into the other models’ sales too much. Plus, the mini is very carefully engineered to avoid cannibalizing Apple’s higher end; as people are already noticing, trying to configure a mini to match even an eMac’s specs is a futile exercise; you’re better off just buying the more expensive machine from the get-go. Which is just how Apple wants it. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apples-new-mini-mac-tempts-me/284344/57 "2005-01-14T03:36:51Z")
> [@](#): > > But still – I don’t understand why they’re SO $$$$? Another possible theory (feel free to prove me wrong): Are Mac Mini’s using notebook memory chips? Those would be even a greater premium than desktop memory chips. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apples-new-mini-mac-tempts-me/284344/58 "2005-01-14T04:05:36Z")
I read on a Mac board that the Minis are using regular sized chips. Cannot confirm that for myself, that’s just the talk. ---
**Author:** ![wheelie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b4bc9f/32.png) [@wheelie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wheelie)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apples-new-mini-mac-tempts-me/284344/59 "2005-01-14T04:21:35Z")
From [Macworld.com](http://www.macworld.com/2005/01/news/minioverview/) > [@](#): > > The Mac mini’s diminutive motherboard is exactly the width of its RAM slot. That’s because the Mac mini uses full-size PC2700 RAM. Apple could have saved some space by using laptop RAM, but it wouldn’t have helped much, given the size of that pesky optical drive. However, the Mac mini’s hard drive is the same kind you’d find in a laptop: it’s a 2.5-inch, 4200 rpm drive. Looks like I could put 512 Mb in a mini and add the 256 Mb to my G4 Powermac. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apples-new-mini-mac-tempts-me/284344/60 "2005-01-14T04:23:02Z")
> [@Mikahw](#): > > I don’t know about most accurate, but even Apple uses the term “PC” for windows/IBM/whatever boxes. For example, the iPod ad says it works with “Mac or PC”. If I may channel Arthur Naiman, author of some of the early versions of _The Macintosh Bible_: Yeah yeah, the Mac is a “personal computer”. It’s not a PC. The PC is not “a personal computer”, it’s the Personal Computer™, and by extension all that is of its legacy amongst both IBM offerings and compatible machines by other vendors (the legacy of the “clones”). When we talk of computers we own, we need not refer to them as “personal computers” as if to distinguish them from the mainframes we’ve got in the living room. C’mon, all of our computers are “personal”! A PC is an Intel-compatible machine of the sort that will run Windows natively, and generally speaking that also means it will run other operating systems designed to run on the industry-standard Intel platform, such as Red Hat Linux. A Mac is not a PC. It’s a Mac. A Mac is either a Motorola 68K-compatible or a PowerPC-compatible machine of the sort that will run the MacOS natively, and generally speaking that also means it will run other operating systems designed to run on PPC equipment, such as Yellow Dog Linux. Most Macs are literally Macintosh computers made by Apple, and right now there are no off-brand knockoffs available but that could change as of tomorrow (the modern MacOS does not depend on a ROM anymore, which makes cloning without Apple approval a far easier task than it was in the MacOS 9 days). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apples-new-mini-mac-tempts-me/284344.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/apples-new-mini-mac-tempts-me/284344.md?page=4)