# Appropriate place for outing a troll? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [August 22, 2010, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appropriate-place-for-outing-a-troll/551055 "2010-08-22T12:47:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appropriate-place-for-outing-a-troll/551055/21 "2010-08-24T21:43:02Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > we usually analyze just the facts and leave the poster’s analysis/opinion out of the discussion. This seems incredibly arrogant, but maybe there’s a benign explanation, or possibly it was poorly phrased and didn’t mean what it seems to. ---
**Author:** ![SoulFrost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f07891/32.png) [@SoulFrost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoulFrost)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appropriate-place-for-outing-a-troll/551055/22 "2010-08-24T21:50:56Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > > [@twickster](#): > > > > we usually analyze just the facts and leave the poster’s analysis/opinion out of the discussion. > > This seems incredibly arrogant, but maybe there’s a benign explanation, or possibly it was poorly phrased and didn’t mean what it seems to. The more complete quote is > [@](#): > > a short, coherent and well-cited PM is the best way to get your point across; we usually analyze just the facts and leave the poster’s analysis/opinion out of the discussion. Seems fine to me, in context–send cites and let the Mods evaluate them. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appropriate-place-for-outing-a-troll/551055/23 "2010-08-24T21:54:28Z")
> [@SoulFrost](#): > > > [@TubaDiva](#): > > > > Nothing has changed, really. You can’t get in the back door what you can’t bring in the front door. > > > > No. > > > > No. > > I was under the impression (largely due to [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=12620022)) that we can say “This is trolling” if we’re referring to a particular post. Yes, my questions referred mostly to [this post.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12619850&postcount=5) Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appropriate-place-for-outing-a-troll/551055/24 "2010-08-24T21:57:41Z")
> [@SoulFrost](#): > > Seems fine to me, in context–send cites and let the Mods evaluate them. The facts aren’t always obvious from the cites, and a poster might have something to add in putting the picture together. I can’t think of any legitimate reason for the mods for the mods to just ignore whatever points a poster may have made. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appropriate-place-for-outing-a-troll/551055/25 "2010-08-24T22:01:41Z")
In the phrase “we usually analyze just the facts and leave the poster’s analysis/opinion out of the discussion,” “the poster” refers to the person bringing a suspected troll to the attention of the mods, not the suspected troll. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appropriate-place-for-outing-a-troll/551055/26 "2010-08-24T22:02:52Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > In the phrase “we usually analyze just the facts and leave the poster’s analysis/opinion out of the discussion,” “the poster” refers to the person bringing a suspected troll to the attention of the mods, not the suspected troll. Understood. So then … ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appropriate-place-for-outing-a-troll/551055/27 "2010-08-24T22:03:54Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > As far as where to appropriately out a troll, as asked by the OP: “Not in public” is the short answer. Nice, but that doesn’t answer my question. The question was “If you want to bring the issue before the board and not PM/e-mail the mods, what do you do”. I also love the “Mods don’t care about your petty little opinions” crack. Very nice customer service there. > [@](#): > > If you do call someone a troll in the Pit, that does not constitute something the mods will pay attention to, let alone act on. This does answer my question. So The Pit is the appropriate place to level charges of trolling. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appropriate-place-for-outing-a-troll/551055/28 "2010-08-24T22:06:24Z")
So then, PosterX comes to us and says “I think PosterY is a troll.” We look at PosterY’s posts and see what he or she is saying – what he or she says, how he or she says it, what kind of threads he or she starts, how he or she participates in them. We don’t worry about PosterX’s opinion of the content of that person’s posts, or of that person. I’m not seeing a problem there. ---
**Author:** ![SoulFrost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f07891/32.png) [@SoulFrost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoulFrost)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appropriate-place-for-outing-a-troll/551055/29 "2010-08-24T22:08:29Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > > [@SoulFrost](#): > > > > Seems fine to me, in context–send cites and let the Mods evaluate them. > > The facts aren’t always obvious from the cites, and a poster might have something to add in putting the picture together. I can’t think of any legitimate reason for the mods for the mods to just ignore whatever points a poster may have made. I think the idea is to avoid reports like “ **Fotheringay-Phipps** is trolling [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12837773&postcount=21) and [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12837829&postcount=24) because he knows that **twickster** is a free-thinker and a neo-splarfist, and that these issues are emotional triggers for anyone outside the oppressive traditional splarfist system.” ETA: My, I was late! ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appropriate-place-for-outing-a-troll/551055/30 "2010-08-24T22:11:18Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > > [@twickster](#): > > > > As far as where to appropriately out a troll, as asked by the OP: “Not in public” is the short answer. > > Nice, but that doesn’t answer my question. The question was “If you want to bring the issue before the board and not PM/e-mail the mods, what do you do”. I’m not clear why you need to make a public accusation, rather than communicate a concern privately. > [@Fenris](#): > > I also love the “Mods don’t care about your petty little opinions” crack. Very nice customer service there. Which was said where? by whom? > [@Fenris](#): > > > [@twickster](#): > > > > If you do call someone a troll in the Pit, that does not constitute something the mods will pay attention to, let alone act on. > > This does answer my question. So The Pit is the appropriate place to level charges of trolling. Thanks. Yes, accuse away in there – but don’t expect the mods to read or act upon those accusations. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appropriate-place-for-outing-a-troll/551055/31 "2010-08-24T22:15:26Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > So then, PosterX comes to us and says “I think PosterY is a troll.” We look at PosterY’s posts and see what he or she is saying – what he or she says, how he or she says it, what kind of threads he or she starts, how he or she participates in them. We don’t worry about PosterX’s opinion of the content of that person’s posts, or of that person. Yeah, if all PosterX says is “I think PosterY is a troll”, I’m with you. But if PosterX says something like “PosterY can’t be arguing in good faith in such-and-such thread because he had a different attitude in such-and-such other thread” or similar, it doesn’t make sense to just ignore this type of argument. IOW, I don’t so much object to your leaving the poster’s opinion out of it, but you said you also left the analysis out as well. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appropriate-place-for-outing-a-troll/551055/32 "2010-08-24T22:18:01Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > In the phrase “we usually analyze just the facts and leave the poster’s analysis/opinion out of the discussion,” “the poster” refers to the person bringing a suspected troll to the attention of the mods, not the suspected troll. I think that everyone got that. > [@twickster](#): > > Yes, accuse away in there – but don’t expect the mods to read or act upon those accusations. It would seem then that the best thing to do is to bring it up in the Pit. That way, like in the K6 fiasco, the membership can suss the whole thing out. Once it’s resolved, someone can PM a link to that thread to the Mods who will then parse out the relevant bits and come to a consensus…or not. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appropriate-place-for-outing-a-troll/551055/33 "2010-08-24T22:20:48Z")
We ask for your perspective and your cites. Seems to me that your example would be covered under “perspective and cites.” No? ETA: Sorry, **hajario** got in while I was writing – this is in response to **Fotheringay-Phipps**. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appropriate-place-for-outing-a-troll/551055/34 "2010-08-24T22:23:02Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > Okay, here’s the official policy, effective now: > > [INDENT]Accusations of trolling and similar misconduct are subject to staff discussion and a review of the poster’s history. Trolling is an especially contentious issue, as it is inherently open to interpretation; “stupid” or naive beliefs can often be sincerely held. These discussions are private and disclosed only when actionable offenses are found; we do not want posters to feel persecuted. To discuss this further, I can dig up mulitple cites where the SDMB has clearly stated that they don’t care how sincere a belief is–a hypothetical poster barging into and disrupting every religious thread to talk about his experience with the space-alien who pretended to be Jesus is just as much a troll as the one who’s saying the same thing to get a rise out of people per SDMB rules as recently as a month or so ago. Are you saying that as of now, the policy has changed and you judge the sincerity of the poster, rather than the descriptiveness of the posts? Also, let’s assume that you do or do-not find the poster guilty of trolling. Either way, what happens then? ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appropriate-place-for-outing-a-troll/551055/35 "2010-08-24T22:39:22Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > To discuss this further, I can dig up mulitple cites where the SDMB has clearly stated that they don’t care how sincere a belief is–a hypothetical poster barging into and disrupting every religious thread to talk about his experience with the space-alien who pretended to be Jesus is just as much a troll as the one who’s saying the same thing to get a rise out of people per SDMB rules as recently as a month or so ago. Here is the definition of troll from our glossary: > [@](#): > > Troll – This is general internet usage for “somebody who is posting just to be confrontational or to raise hackles.” [Beginner's Guide to Glossary of Terms on Straight Dope Message Boards - About This Message Board - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=320298) The Pit’s definition is a little different, but both focus on the intent of the poster. So it’s technically possible to troll while sincerely holding a belief, as long as your only purpose is to be confrontational or raise hackles. To be clear, we don’t intend to redefine trolling with the statement quoted by **twickster**. That particular sentence is meant to respond to the most frequent trolling complaint that we get–“he said something stupid/unpopular/controversial. Therefore, he’s a troll.” And put those hackles down. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appropriate-place-for-outing-a-troll/551055/36 "2010-08-24T22:41:48Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > It would seem then that the best thing to do is to bring it up in the Pit. That way, like in the K6 fiasco, the membership can suss the whole thing out. Once it’s resolved, someone can PM a link to that thread to the Mods who will then parse out the relevant bits and come to a consensus…or not. This is fine. It’s not mandatory, but it will often give us a fine sampling of the alleged trolling. And I’d recommend the follow-up as you describe it. Please PM a mod with a link or report a post in the thread with a note that we ought to check it out. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appropriate-place-for-outing-a-troll/551055/37 "2010-08-24T22:47:43Z")
Hackles? Me??? 😉 Fair enough. And apologies Twicks–I think I read the worst possible interpretation of that line. Been a long day. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appropriate-place-for-outing-a-troll/551055/38 "2010-08-25T03:00:39Z")
Is it fair to say that using “troll” as a form of insult without the express purpose of having a poster investigated and possibly banned is fine in the Pit, but if you want to make a serious trolling accusation then it should be made direct to the mods? ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appropriate-place-for-outing-a-troll/551055/39 "2010-08-25T03:52:38Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > Is it fair to say that using “troll” as a form of insult without the express purpose of having a poster investigated and possibly banned is fine in the Pit, but if you want to make a serious trolling accusation then it should be made direct to the mods? That is my understanding. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appropriate-place-for-outing-a-troll/551055/40 "2010-08-25T04:18:27Z")
Though slightly off topic, this puts me in the mind of when I got tonnes of shit for pointing out that Desmostylus was on his fifth “final” warning. Though the odour of the snackpit probably got some of the mods not thinking straight and nominally [warned for “bringing off board troubles”](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=318283&page=3&pp=50#post6211570), I was mostly [accused of whipping up a bannination drive](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6213195&postcount=144). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appropriate-place-for-outing-a-troll/551055.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appropriate-place-for-outing-a-troll/551055.md?page=3)