# Appropriateness of "indian head" gold piece **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 19, 2006, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appropriateness-of-indian-head-gold-piece/361242 "2006-06-19T02:32:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![mobo85](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mobo85](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mobo85)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2006, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appropriateness-of-indian-head-gold-piece/361242/21 "2006-06-20T23:48:17Z")
[QUOTE=Paul in Saudi] Lady Liberty with the flag as her cloak on the present $1? Neato.) [/QUOTE] The woman on the current $1 coin is supposed to be Sacajawea. Are you perhaps thinking of [this vintage half dollar?](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Walkinghalffront.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Lama\_Pacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Lama\_Pacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lama_Pacos)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2006, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appropriateness-of-indian-head-gold-piece/361242/22 "2006-06-21T02:02:23Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > One thing to keep in mind for those who advocate putting a known person’s head on the coin: There were many nations (in the literal sense) among the native peoples in the Americas. Singling out a known representative of one nation is a slap in the face for those who considered that nation to be its enemy. I’m not so sure that members of the Crow nation (Apsaalooke), for example, would like to see a Lakota face on a coin in the US (or vice versa). I know you didn’t mean it to be so, but I think that argument is kind of dehumanizing. It doesn’t seem to accord Indians the same modern, rational thinking that white people accord themselves. Just as Franco-Americans can deal with all the Anglos on coinage, so too can the Crow deal with a Lakota face on their quarter. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2006, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appropriateness-of-indian-head-gold-piece/361242/23 "2006-06-21T02:12:38Z")
[QUOTE=Lama Pacos] I know you didn’t mean it to be so, but I think that argument is kind of dehumanizing. It doesn’t seem to accord Indians the same modern, rational thinking that white people accord themselves. Just as Franco-Americans can deal with all the Anglos on coinage, so too can the Crow deal with a Lakota face on their quarter. [/QUOTE] It’s not the same thing. Europeans who come to the US do so with the idea of being American citizens-- all part of the same nation. The various Indian Nations were never united in any sense. So yes, I’m sure inter-tribal relations are much better today than they were 150 years ago, but I can see why it would be not just politically prudent, but genuinely culturally sensitive, too, to stay away from designating any one tribe as being represntative of “Native Americans”. That’s not to say that the composite picture is any better, and maybe there isn’t any completely good solution to acknowledging Native Americans on US coins. I just wanted to point out that switching from a composite picture to one which represents a specific individual is not without its own problems. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appropriateness-of-indian-head-gold-piece/361242/24 "2006-06-22T19:41:51Z")
Seems appropriate to me; I don’t have a problem with it. Looks like a dignified profile. It memorializes the first Americans, and hearkens back to historic U.S. coinage. Crank up the coin presses. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appropriateness-of-indian-head-gold-piece/361242/25 "2006-06-22T20:23:37Z")
[QUOTE=Lama Pacos] I know you didn’t mean it to be so, but I think that argument is kind of dehumanizing. It doesn’t seem to accord Indians the same modern, rational thinking that white people accord themselves. Just as Franco-Americans can deal with all the Anglos on coinage, so too can the Crow deal with a Lakota face on their quarter. [/QUOTE] You really think so? How many white people would be up in arms if we decided to put Christopher Columbus or George Armstrong Custer on a coin? I don’t really know if I see any of this “rational thinking” coming from white people who are overly concerned that the image of a generic Indian is offensive. If anything that strikes me as oversensitivity to the point of patronizing. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appropriateness-of-indian-head-gold-piece/361242/26 "2006-06-22T21:12:28Z")
I still don’t see how a generic Indian image on a coin is more or less “patronizing” that the association of Indian images with a University and its sports teams. ---
**Author:** ![Lama\_Pacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Lama\_Pacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lama_Pacos)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2006, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appropriateness-of-indian-head-gold-piece/361242/27 "2006-06-23T05:05:13Z")
> [@](#): > > You really think so? How many white people would be up in arms if we decided to put Christopher Columbus or George Armstrong Custer on a coin? I don’t really know if I see any of this “rational thinking” coming from white people who are overly concerned that the image of a generic Indian is offensive. If anything that strikes me as oversensitivity to the point of patronizing. I don’t understand what you’re saying. All I was speaking to was the idea that Indians would have trouble dealing with a coin featuring a historically rivalling tribe. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2006, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appropriateness-of-indian-head-gold-piece/361242/28 "2006-06-23T16:38:54Z")
[QUOTE=Lama Pacos] I don’t understand what you’re saying. All I was speaking to was the idea that Indians would have trouble dealing with a coin featuring a historically rivalling tribe. [/QUOTE] I thought I was addressing your point but I obviously failed. > [@Lama Pacos](#): > > I know you didn’t mean it to be so, but I think that argument is kind of dehumanizing. It doesn’t seem to accord Indians the same modern, rational thinking that white people accord themselves. Just as Franco-Americans can deal with all the Anglos on coinage, so too can the Crow deal with a Lakota face on their quarter. I don’t think we’re dehumanizing Indians nor do I think we’re saying that they aren’t as reasonable as white folks. After all, I can think of few things sillier than an arguement over the use of a generic Indian image for a piece of currency. If you have a coin showing a specific member of a tribe it might piss off members of other tribes. It isn’t just a matter of differences it’s just that some tribes were historically enemies and there are still tribes that don’t get along very well to this day. Ask the Navajo. Point being, someone is always going to be dissastisfied with any solution we come up with. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Sweet\_Mercury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/49beb7/32.png) [@Sweet\_Mercury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sweet_Mercury)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2006, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appropriateness-of-indian-head-gold-piece/361242/29 "2006-06-25T06:54:35Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] One thing to keep in mind for those who advocate putting a known person’s head on the coin: There were many nations (in the literal sense) among the native peoples in the Americas. Singling out a known representative of one nation is a slap in the face for those who considered that nation to be its enemy. I’m not so sure that members of the Crow nation (Apsaalooke), for example, would like to see a Lakota face on a coin in the US (or vice versa). [/QUOTE] Well, you can’t please all of the people all of the time. Do the members of these tribes still harbor such animosity toward one another? ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2006, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appropriateness-of-indian-head-gold-piece/361242/30 "2006-06-25T14:26:18Z")
[QUOTE=mobo85] The woman on the current $1 coin is supposed to be Sacajawea. Are you perhaps thinking of [this vintage half dollar?](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Walkinghalffront.jpg) [/QUOTE] He’s probably referring to the [Silver Eagle](http://www.govmint.com/countrylistings/northamerica/usa/2006firststrike.aspx?ad=gsilvereagle1023&gclid=CIqFpYnT4YUCFR0MSQodSRa3Nw), which is a bullion coin. Liberty’s garment is an American flag. Some companies sell [colored versions](http://washingtonmint.com/product.asp?pn=1801338&sid=overture&eid=ov6123&bhcd2=1151245530) of the coin. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2006, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appropriateness-of-indian-head-gold-piece/361242/31 "2006-06-25T15:07:20Z")
[QUOTE=Sweet Mercury] Do the members of these tribes still harbor such animosity toward one another? [/QUOTE] From “What’s in a Name.” Archaeology July/August: 12. > [@What's in a Name](#): > > Today, Anasazi are disappearing from sites like Mesa Verde all over again, replaced by “Ancestral Puebloans” or “Ancestral Pueblo People” at the request of modern Native American tribes who claim the word Anasazi is an offensive Navajo term originally meaning “enemy ancenstors.” The Navajo Nation’s director of of the office of language and culture says that “Anasazi is a Navajo word…it just means ‘those who came before us.’” Then there’s the matter of using Pueblo which is not an Indian word but a Spanish word. So why not just use a Puebloan word for ancestor to describe the Anasazi? Because the tribes descended from the Anasazi have different names for ancestor and they were also descended from another tribe other than the Anasazi. So yes, it does appear as though some of the tribes still have some animosity towards one another. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Sweet\_Mercury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/49beb7/32.png) [@Sweet\_Mercury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sweet_Mercury)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2006, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appropriateness-of-indian-head-gold-piece/361242/32 "2006-06-25T20:07:16Z")
Ah, interesting. Thanks for fighting my ignorance on that, I never would have guessed that people could still harbor such feelings. (Am I the only one who thinks that that’s just a wee bit childish?) ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2006, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appropriateness-of-indian-head-gold-piece/361242/33 "2006-06-25T20:23:44Z")
Being an alumnus of the University of Illinois, I have given this matter a lot of thought. I actually think that it will be a sad day when we eliminate all images of Native Americans (at least, the ones with dignity…I’m certainly not going to say a single word in defense of portrayals such as the Cleveland Indians mascot.) I have no idea if Chief Illiniwek or the portrayal on the gold coin are authentic or not…if they aren’t then work should be done to make them so. But to completely remove these portrayals is to me one more way to erase the existance of the Native American culture, or pretend that it never existed, and it seems wrong to me. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2006, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appropriateness-of-indian-head-gold-piece/361242/34 "2006-06-25T20:30:57Z")
> [@](#): > > What specific person was the 1976 bicentennial quarter suppose to represent? Fellow named George Washington; you may have heard of him? If you’ll turn your coin over, you’ll notice that he’s on the obverse of it. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2006, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appropriateness-of-indian-head-gold-piece/361242/35 "2006-06-26T01:35:50Z")
[QUOTE=Chronos] Fellow named George Washington; you may have heard of him? If you’ll turn your coin over, you’ll notice that he’s on the obverse of it. [/QUOTE] Great, and the drummer was who? Marc ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2006, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appropriateness-of-indian-head-gold-piece/361242/36 "2006-06-26T10:05:32Z")
[QUOTE=Sweet Mercury] Ah, interesting. Thanks for fighting my ignorance on that, I never would have guessed that people could still harbor such feelings. (Am I the only one who thinks that that’s just a wee bit childish?) [/QUOTE] (Do you realize the whole middle eastern party between arabs and jews is a family feud? The arabs are considered descendants of Ishmael, the son of Abraham by Sarah’s slave - who was the heir until his half-brother was born. That was _how long ago?_ I know other examples but they’re more local. The problem with blood feuds is they make people stupid-er) ---
**Author:** ![Sweet\_Mercury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/49beb7/32.png) [@Sweet\_Mercury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sweet_Mercury)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2006, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appropriateness-of-indian-head-gold-piece/361242/37 "2006-06-26T19:52:18Z")
[QUOTE=Nava] (Do you realize the whole middle eastern party between arabs and jews is a family feud? The arabs are considered descendants of Ishmael, the son of Abraham by Sarah’s slave - who was the heir until his half-brother was born. That was _how long ago?_ I know other examples but they’re more local. The problem with blood feuds is they make people stupid-er) [/QUOTE] I am intimately familier with the feud between the descendants of Ishmael and Isaac (sons of Hagar and Sarah, respectively :)) I also think that to be _extraordinarily_ childish. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2006, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appropriateness-of-indian-head-gold-piece/361242/38 "2006-06-26T21:49:48Z")
[QUOTE=Sweet Mercury] Thanks for fighting my ignorance on that, I never would have guessed that people could still harbor such feelings. [/QUOTE] No problem, I wasn’t aware of it myself until within the last few years. In addition to tribes who have a long history of disliking one another there is tension among tribes over casinos and other more modern issues. I happen to think that Native Americans are one of the most misunderstood groups of people in the western world. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Sweet\_Mercury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/49beb7/32.png) [@Sweet\_Mercury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sweet_Mercury)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2006, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appropriateness-of-indian-head-gold-piece/361242/39 "2006-06-27T19:45:50Z")
[QUOTE=MGibson] No problem, I wasn’t aware of it myself until within the last few years. In addition to tribes who have a long history of disliking one another there is tension among tribes over casinos and other more modern issues. I happen to think that Native Americans are one of the most misunderstood groups of people in the western world. Marc [/QUOTE] I would agree. So little is tought about Native American culture in schools except for a few vague archetypes. I knew that, historically, there was a severe tribal warfare and blood feuds (that happens to all peoples of all backgrounds). I just assumed—wrongly—that perhaps such differences had fell to the wayside due to a common enemy on their land. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2006, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appropriateness-of-indian-head-gold-piece/361242/40 "2006-06-27T20:23:49Z")
[QUOTE=Nava] (Do you realize the whole middle eastern party between arabs and jews is a family feud? The arabs are considered descendants of Ishmael, the son of Abraham by Sarah’s slave - who was the heir until his half-brother was born. That was _how long ago?_ I know other examples but they’re more local. The problem with blood feuds is they make people stupid-er) [/QUOTE] It’s more over land and water issues, and competing nationalisms. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appropriateness-of-indian-head-gold-piece/361242.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/appropriateness-of-indian-head-gold-piece/361242.md?page=3)