# April 17, 1982 - Forty years since the Patriation of the Constitution of Canada **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 17, 2022, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/april-17-1982-forty-years-since-the-patriation-of-the-constitution-of-canada/962961 "2022-04-17T19:15:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2022, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/april-17-1982-forty-years-since-the-patriation-of-the-constitution-of-canada/962961/21 "2022-04-19T20:43:39Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > Wasn’t it ten years ago, @Northern_Piper , on the Charter’s 30th anniversary, that you and I and @Muffin hosted an “Ask Us Anything” about the Charter? I note this comment from that thread: > [@](#): > > **Karl** , your religion example would fall under s. 2(a); and while it is technically possible to override one’s freedom of conscience and religion rights by invoking the Notwithstanding Clause, I suppose, I’d suggest that it would be unlikely. Not all that unlikely, as it turns out. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2022, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/april-17-1982-forty-years-since-the-patriation-of-the-constitution-of-canada/962961/22 "2022-04-20T00:18:38Z")
Nothing to celebrate while the notwithstanding clause remains. Provincial and federal assemblies can–and the Quebec government does–ignore the bill of rights, just by saying notwithstanding. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2022, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/april-17-1982-forty-years-since-the-patriation-of-the-constitution-of-canada/962961/23 "2022-04-20T02:08:27Z")
Specifically, of the twenty times the nothwithstanding clause has been invoked, not always successfully, fifteen have been by Quebec. I think it a weakness, unique to Canada as far as my knowledge of constitutions goes. But one arguably “necessary” in Canada to get provincial agreement to important legislation like the Charter. At least, given the usual general sensitivity, distrust and adversarial nature of federal-provincial politics. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2022, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/april-17-1982-forty-years-since-the-patriation-of-the-constitution-of-canada/962961/24 "2022-04-20T06:54:07Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > Nothing to celebrate while the notwithstanding clause remains. Provincial and federal assemblies can–and the Quebec government does–ignore the bill of rights, just by saying notwithstanding. Nitpicking here, but while Canada does have a _Canadian Bill of Rights_, S.C. 1960, c. 44; it is in no way alike to the American Bill of Rights. The _Canadian Bill of Rights_ is a simple law, passed by Parliament (i.e. not a part of our Constitution), binding only on the federal Parliament, and not binding on the provinces. Further, it also contains a Notwithstanding Clause, so the Feds can opt out of it. In other words, it’s pretty toothless. > [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > Specifically, of the twenty times the nothwithstanding clause has been invoked, not always successfully, fifteen have been by Quebec. I think it a weakness, unique to Canada as far as my knowledge of constitutions goes. But one arguably “necessary” in Canada to get provincial agreement to important legislation like the Charter. It was necessary forty years ago, to get the agreement needed. I wonder if it is now. It was certainly well-intentioned, but the implementation left a lot to be desired. When Quebec used it to opt out of Charter s. 2(b) “freedom of expression” clause, who could have foreseen that the Office de la Langue Francaise would be so petty as to shut down the expression of an Italian restaurant to print its menus in Italian? Cite: > **[Pastagate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pastagate)** > > Pastagate is the informal name of an incident that began in 2013 in Quebec, when, on 14 February, an inspector of the Office québécois de la langue française (OQLF) sent a letter of warning to upscale Montreal restaurant Buonanotte, for using Italian words such as pasta, antipasti and calamari on its menu instead of their French equivalents. The incident occurred as the National Assembly was debating Bill 14, a bill to toughen the province's Charter of the French Language. > Instead of complying ... Or when a restaurant’s chef’s shopping list (_a simple shopping list, fercryingoutloud!_) must change “steak” to “bifteck”: > **[Quebec language police aim at more Montreal restaurants | CBC News](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-language-police-aim-at-more-montreal-restaurants-1.1332751)** > > More Montreal restaurateurs are speaking out about the demands imposed by Quebec's language police over signs and menu items that are not in French. I’d suggest that the Notwithstanding Clause does have a use, but its intended use is not to allow a province to behave like this. Problem is, that reopening the Constitution to make changes will invite all provinces to demand changes having nothing to do with the Notwithstanding Clause. Meech Lake and Charlottetown taught us that no matter the amending formula, amending our Constitution is effectively impossible… ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2022, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/april-17-1982-forty-years-since-the-patriation-of-the-constitution-of-canada/962961/25 "2022-04-20T13:05:35Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > who could have foreseen that the Office de la Langue Francaise would be so petty as to shut down the expression of an Italian restaurant to print its menus in Italian? Pretty much everyone who ever paid any attention to Quebec’s language laws? Forget banning Italian, how many English businesses had to drop their apostrophes? ““Bob’s Burgers”? That apostrophe is English, and is destroying Quebec!” ---
**Author:** ![TRC4941](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trc4941/32/6792_2.png) [@TRC4941](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TRC4941)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2022, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/april-17-1982-forty-years-since-the-patriation-of-the-constitution-of-canada/962961/26 "2022-04-20T14:59:23Z")
It’s also the date of my wedding! ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2022, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/april-17-1982-forty-years-since-the-patriation-of-the-constitution-of-canada/962961/27 "2022-04-20T15:33:51Z")
> [@Jim\_B](#): > > Also, the Canadian Constitution, like most modern constitutions, has its charter of rights based on the UN’s [UDHR](https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-human-rights). > > Did anyone else know that 😉 🙂 ? Well, the Charter might be so influenced; most of Canada’s rather unique Constitution obviously cannot be. All such “bill of rights” documented are pretty clearly influenced in turn by the Napoleonic Code and U.S. Bill of Rights. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2022, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/april-17-1982-forty-years-since-the-patriation-of-the-constitution-of-canada/962961/28 "2022-04-22T20:15:14Z")
There were probably laws before Hammurabi or _lex talionis_. The Charter has developed a great deal in forty years and mostly gone in a very reasonable and Canadian direction. The concern that “unelected bodies” (the judiciary) are creating laws was (and is) real. But the elected bodies sometimes seem to be passing precious few of them, despite election promiseering, or much satisfying stakeholders when they do try to. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2022, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/april-17-1982-forty-years-since-the-patriation-of-the-constitution-of-canada/962961/29 "2022-04-23T23:34:09Z")
> **[Letters to the editor: Brian Peckford: 'The Constitution was not a failure'](https://nationalpost.com/opinion/letters-to-the-editor-brian-peckford-the-constitution-was-not-a-failure)** > > Former Newfoundland premier Brian Peckford, who helped draft Canada's Constitution Act of 1982, responds to its critics in the Letters to the editor ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2022, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/april-17-1982-forty-years-since-the-patriation-of-the-constitution-of-canada/962961/30 "2022-04-25T20:15:56Z")
At the time, it was viewed here mostly as something of a nuisance - here we are taking up Parliamentary time just to legislate for weird Canadian shit when the time could have been devoted to domestic legislating. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2022, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/april-17-1982-forty-years-since-the-patriation-of-the-constitution-of-canada/962961/31 "2022-04-25T20:20:02Z")
{sniffy English voice} "Those colonials! One must be civil, but one thought they would nevah leave! {/sniffy English voice} ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2022, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/april-17-1982-forty-years-since-the-patriation-of-the-constitution-of-canada/962961/32 "2022-04-25T20:56:57Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > [Letters to the editor: Brian Peckford: 'The Constitution was not a failure' | National Post](https://nationalpost.com/opinion/letters-to-the-editor-brian-peckford-the-constitution-was-not-a-failure) This is a good point, and I’ve heard Roy Romanow say the same thing. It was a complex package, not just the Charter, and he said that in retrospect, he was amazed they managed to hold it all together. When asked if there was anything about the deal he would change, he replied: “Not a thing.” It was a complex package and everything had a part. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2022, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/april-17-1982-forty-years-since-the-patriation-of-the-constitution-of-canada/962961/33 "2022-04-25T21:49:27Z")
(not that there’s any Godly force that could ever stop the British public from feeling nuisanced, but…) The whole reason for UK’s Parliament to pass the **Canada Act 1982** was to relinquish its powers in amending Canada’s Constitution and end any future legislation from the British Parliament. Complaining about needing to legislate this final Act, on those stated grounds, is about as logical as a suicidal man arguing about the price of the rope with which he wants to hang himself. The cost is what it is, just pay it. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2022, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/april-17-1982-forty-years-since-the-patriation-of-the-constitution-of-canada/962961/34 "2022-04-25T23:37:11Z")
To say it explicitly for those who dislike links, quoted from the above National Post (letters to the editor) by Peckford: “[The Constitution] was just not minority language rights. There were Aboriginal rights, regional disparities and equalization guarantees, and an amending formula without which there would be no Charter or Constitution Act in the first place. The Charter and the whole 61 items of the Agreement/Act [of which 34 were the Charter] was the collective effort of 11 First Ministers over 17 months and a Supreme Court of Canada decision, with, in the end, Quebec refusing to sign… In my talks with people all over the country in the past year it has been apparent that they respect and honour the Charter’s individual freedoms and rights and are adamant that governments and the courts respect and honour them, too. That’s where the issue really is right now — an unease by the public that our democracy is failing, led by the very institutions that are supposed to uphold those rights and freedoms. The Patriation Agreement /Constitution Act 1982… is a victory for people everywhere in Canada, with their individual rights and freedoms being enshrined in our Constitution, our most sacred document. And it is a victory for Aboriginal peoples to be identified and recognized for who they are, Inuit, Innu and Métis, and their existing treaties recognized, and a victory for have-not regions of the country to be acknowledged and supported, and for a Constitution that is now ours…” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/april-17-1982-forty-years-since-the-patriation-of-the-constitution-of-canada/962961.md?page=1)