# Arabian Nights **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 29, 2009, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arabian-nights/494738 "2009-04-29T16:59:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![tr0psn4j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@tr0psn4j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tr0psn4j)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arabian-nights/494738/1 "2009-04-29T16:59:45Z")
So I picked up One Thousand and One Tales of Arabian Nights, or whatever its called. I don’t get much time to read so I’ve slowly been reading through it. The first few stories where great but I’ve been struggling to get through The Porter and the Three Ladies of Baghdad. So who has read it and what is your overall thoughts of that particular tale and the book in general? ---
**Author:** ![ArrMatey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/arrmatey/32/3522_2.png) [@ArrMatey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArrMatey)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arabian-nights/494738/2 "2009-04-29T17:13:33Z")
I read most of it, although it was quite a few years ago and the stories tend to mesh together in my mind. I’ve always been a fan of the genre, and something of a ‘genre-purist’, so for me the greatest joy in the stories was seeing how different they were than our ‘standard’ western perception of them. I remember finding them fascinating, but not all of them would I qualify as a ‘good read’. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arabian-nights/494738/3 "2009-04-29T17:59:44Z")
There’s some really out-of-the-blue antisemitism (in the middle of a story, someone will go on an anti-Jew rant). The books are a product of their time as is Burton and I understand that, but I remember being outright shocked at the level of anti-Jewish vitriol back that kept cropping up. (I liked most of 'em overall, but it really came as a surprise to me). There are also stories that are anti-Jew: there’s one about a doctor who poisons people because he’s Jewish\*. I like the lyrical nature of Burton’s prose, but I kept blinking at the bile-levels. \*or something like that. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arabian-nights/494738/4 "2009-04-29T19:02:46Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > There are also stories that are anti-Jew: there’s one about a doctor who poisons people because he’s Jewish\*. Which one, do you know? The only one I can think of with a Jewish doctor is the hunchback’s tale. A tailor invites a hunchback in for dinner, and the hunchback chokes on a fishbone. So the tailor, not wanting to be blamed for his death, puts him outside the door of a Jewish doctor. The Jewish doctor trips over him going outside, and thinks he killed him. So he won’t be blamed, he puts him in an official’s kitchen. The official sees the body and thinks the corpse is a thief. So he beats him, and then finds out he’s dead. So he won’t be blamed, he props the body against a wall in an alley. A drunk Christian who’s urinating in the alley sees the body, and thinks he’s going to be mugged, so he hits the corpse. At that point, he’s arrested and charged with murder. So, when he’s about to be hanged, the other three tell their story. Then they end up saving the hunchback, who was never dead after all. The aforementioned Jewish doctor also narrates another story, but he’s not a participant. There are some negative stereotypes of Jews in the stories, sometimes very negative ones. But there are also stories where Jews are portrayed positively (The Jewish Qadi and his Pious Wife, The Island King and the Pious Israelite, the Traymaker and his Wife) ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arabian-nights/494738/5 "2009-04-29T19:12:47Z")
> [@](#): > > So who has read it and what is your overall thoughts of that particular tale and the book in general? I have a complete translation by Sir Richard Burton that I still haven’t worked my way through . It’s 20 volumes long. The Arabian Nights is a _MUCH_ longer book than most people realize. I like Burton’s odd translation, and his incredible footnotes, which are frequently much longer than the clear text on the page, and convey much background info. I have other translations, including notably the Penguin collection of “Tales from the…” Penguiin doesn’t like Burton’s translation, and theirs is arguably more readable. I also have theiors on audio, which is really interesting – it’s like Shahrzahd herself is telling you the stories. What do I think? Incredible, multi-leveled story telling with an immense imagination. And definitely not for kids. If you’re reading the Porter and the Three Ladies, though, you already know that. ---
**Author:** ![mshar253](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@mshar253](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mshar253)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arabian-nights/494738/6 "2009-04-29T19:49:59Z")
We had to read it in my World Lit course this semester; or, more accurately, we had to read only about 50 pages, most of which were about the Porter and the Three Young Girls. One question I have, for anyone who has read it, is this: the reason the girl was telling the story to the king was to keep him interested, intriguing him to the point that he wouldn’t kill her because he wanted to know the end of the story. But does she eventually explain why some of the bizarre things happened? For instance, the three girls who are hosting the porter and the other people beat a couple dogs; does the narrator – the girl – eventually explain why they were doing things like that? It seems like the technique that the girl was using is similar to how the TV show “Lost” is written, in that it raised a bunch of strange questions that, we hope, will eventually be answered ( **TooSchoolforCool** , in this week’s Lost thread, claims that the only reason he hasn’t killed himself yet is he wants to know how it will end). If there is a “payoff” to the questions that she raises in her story, I will be interested in reading the entire thing. Anyone know? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arabian-nights/494738/7 "2009-04-29T19:56:08Z")
> [@mshar253](#): > > But does she eventually explain why some of the bizarre things happened? For instance, the three girls who are hosting the porter and the other people beat a couple dogs; does the narrator – the girl – eventually explain why they were doing things like that? Yes, you’ll find out the answer to that after the guests of the women tell their tales. The whole work is a series of nested tales. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arabian-nights/494738/8 "2009-04-29T20:08:21Z")
What amazes me is that, at the conclusion of the Thousand Nights and a Night, Sharzahd (Scheherazade to those who get the translation by way of the German) has her children come in to the bedchamber, and she asks her husband if he really wants to leave their children motherless. Shahrzahd, therefore, not only conceived the children, but bore them during that 1001 night period. Either the two of them were busy during the day, or there are things that Shahrzahd was leaving out of the telling (and with her sister there, too.) ---
**Author:** ![Greg\_Charles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Greg\_Charles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greg_Charles)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arabian-nights/494738/9 "2009-04-29T20:30:34Z")
It’s not really left out of the telling. The premise for the stories is that the sheik (sultan?) has been betrayed by an unfaithful wife, and takes his revenge on womankind by sleeping with one virgin every night and having her executed in the morning. Sharzahd’s plan is to tell a story each night, which doesn’t quite conclude before her sister has to go to bed. After that she still sleeps with the sheik. She just avoids the execution part so that she can continue her story the next night. Sex - death = pregnancy. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arabian-nights/494738/10 "2009-04-29T20:33:43Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > I have a complete translation by Sir Richard Burton that I still haven’t worked my way through . It’s 20 volumes long. The Arabian Nights is a _MUCH_ longer book than most people realize. I like Burton’s odd translation, and his incredible footnotes, which are frequently much longer than the clear text on the page, and convey much background info. > > I have other translations, including notably the Penguin collection of “Tales from the…” Penguiin doesn’t like Burton’s translation, and theirs is arguably more readable. I also have theiors on audio, which is really interesting – it’s like Shahrzahd herself is telling you the stories.. I’ve only read the “Best of Burton” type volume. I’d like to get the complete set. Does the Penguin collection retain the lyrical storytelling? “Hear now, o my King…etc”–I read a modern version about 15 years back that lost all that and I’m not willing to trade readability for quality. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arabian-nights/494738/11 "2009-04-29T20:35:29Z")
> [@Greg\_Charles](#): > > Sex - death = pregnancy. That makes a really lousy bumper sticker… ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arabian-nights/494738/12 "2009-04-29T20:36:17Z")
[quote=“Captain\_Amazing, post:4, topic:494738”] Which one, do you know? The only one I can think of with a Jewish doctor is the hunchback’s tale. A tailor invites a hunchback in for dinner, and the hunchback chokes on a fishbone. So the tailor, not wanting to be blamed for his death, puts him outside the door of a Jewish doctor. \< snip \>/QUOTE] It’s been too long, but it’s likely I’m remembering the hunchback’s tale. If the phrase “treacherous Jew” is used constantly (maybe in the footnotes) that’s the one. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arabian-nights/494738/13 "2009-04-29T20:56:14Z")
> [@](#): > > It’s not really left out of the telling. Yes, it is. I’m aware of the framing story. But somehow or other (with her sister there) she managed to get pregnant and have three kids. _That_’s not told about in the book. Shahrzad evidently had the ability to multitask. ---
**Author:** ![tr0psn4j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@tr0psn4j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tr0psn4j)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arabian-nights/494738/14 "2009-04-29T21:13:35Z")
Must be some great sex. The guys banging away while she yawns and proceeds to tell the story ☹ On another note, there’s a [Magic: The Gathering card named Shahrazad](http://magiccards.info/autocard.php?card=shahrazad) which makes people play subgames everytime the card is played. ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arabian-nights/494738/15 "2009-04-29T22:37:40Z")
There was an annotated version I once read in high school. It came with an index summary of tales. My favorite tale was “Hasan’s Fart”. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arabian-nights/494738/16 "2009-04-29T22:38:01Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > It’s been too long, but it’s likely I’m remembering the hunchback’s tale. If the phrase “treacherous Jew” is used constantly (maybe in the footnotes) that’s the one. I actually can’t find the term “treacherous Jew” anywhere in Burton’s translation, either in the text or the footnotes. The part of the hunchback’s tale where the Jewish doctor appears is here: > [@](#): > > Meanwhile the girl went in to the Jewand said to him, “At the door are a man and a woman with a sick child and they have given me a quarter-dinar for thee, that thou mayest go down and look at the little one and prescribe for it.” As soon as the Jew saw the quarter dinar he rejoiced and rose quickly in his greed of gain and went forth hurriedly in the dark; but hardly had he made a step when he stumbled on the corpse and threw it over, when it rolled to the bottom of the staircase. So he cried out to the girl to hurry up with the light, and she brought it, whereupon he went down and examining the Hunchback found that he was stone dead. So he cried out, “O for Esdras![4] O for Moses! O for Aaron! O for Joshua, son of Nun! O the Ten Commandments! I have stumbled against the sick one and he hath fallen downstairs and he is dead! How shall I get this man I have killed out of my house? O by the hoofs of the ass of Esdras!” Then he took up the body and, carrying it into the house, told his wife what had happened and she said to him, “Why dost thou sit still? If thou keep him here till day break we shall both lose our lives. Let us two carry him to the terrace-roof and throw him over into the house of our neighbour, the Moslem, for if he abide there a night the dogs will come down on him from the adjoining terraces and eat him up.” Now his neighbour was a Reeve, the controller of the Sultan’s kitchen, and was wont to bring back great store of oil and fat and broken meats; but the cats and rats used to eat it, or, if the dogs scented a fat sheep’s tail they would come down from the nearest roofs and tear at it; and on this wise the beasts had already damaged much of what he brought home. So the Jew and his wife carried the Hunchback up to the roof; and, letting him down by his hands and feet through the wind-shaft[5] into the Reeve’s house, propped him up against the wall and went their ways. And footnote 4 says: > [@](#): > > Arab. “Uzayr.” Esdras was a manner of Ripp van Winkle. He was riding over the ruins of Jerusalem when it had been destroyed by the Chaldeans and he doubted by what means Allah would restore it; whereupon he died and at the end of a hundred years he revived. He found his basket of figs and cruse of wine as they were; but of his ass only the bones remained. These were raised to life as Ezra looked on and the ass began at once to bray. Which was a lesson to Esdras. (Koran, chaps. ii.) The oath by the ass’s hoofs is to ridicule the Jew. Mohammed seems to have had an idée fixe that “the Jews say, Ezra is the son of God” (Koran ix.); it may have arisen from the heterodox Jewish belief that Ezra, when the Law was utterly lost, dictated the whole anew to the scribes of his own memory. His tomb with the huge green dome is still visited by the Jews of Baghdad. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Just\_Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arabian-nights/494738/17 "2009-04-30T02:45:31Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > I have other translations, including notably the Penguin collection of “Tales from the…” Penguiin doesn’t like Burton’s translation, and theirs is arguably more readable. I also have theiors on audio, which is really interesting – it’s like Shahrzahd herself is telling you the stories. I prefer Burton to the translator Penguin uses (can’t recall who it was and my copy is in storage while my Burton is on the shelf). The Penguin version just felt like retelling folktales while Burton’s prose was much more interesting. Of course if you don’t like pre-twentieth century novels then Burton’s style is going to make someone stumble… ---
**Author:** ![tr0psn4j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@tr0psn4j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tr0psn4j)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arabian-nights/494738/18 "2009-04-30T03:36:28Z")
The other thing I noticed is that in just about every story, there have been Muslims drinking wine. Am I missing something here? I was under the assumption that they can’t drink alcoholic beverages. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arabian-nights/494738/19 "2009-04-30T03:47:25Z")
> [@tr0psn4j](#): > > The other thing I noticed is that in just about every story, there have been Muslims drinking wine. Am I missing something here? I was under the assumption that they can’t drink alcoholic beverages. Drinking alcohol is against Islamic law. Drinking wine and arak (a kind of aniseed flavored brandy) was, however, fairly common in the medieval Muslim world, especially in a cosmopolitan city like Baghdad. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arabian-nights/494738/20 "2009-04-30T03:54:46Z")
If you’re looking for poetry about wine in the Muslim world, here’s Ibn al-Farid: > [@](#): > > In memory of the beloved we drank a wine; > we were drunk with it before creation of the vine. > The full moon its glass, the wine a sun circled by a crescent; > When it is mixed, how many stars appear! > > If not for its bouquet, I would not have found its tavern; > If not for its flashing gleam, how could > imagination picture it? And Rumi comparing the love of God to drunkeness: > [@](#): > > God has given us a dark wine so potent that, > drinking it, we leave the two worlds. > > God has put into the form of hashish a power > to deliver the taster from self-consciousness. > > God has made sleep so > that it erases every thought. > > God made Majnun love Layla so much that > just her dog would cause confusion in him. > > There are thousands of wines > that can take over our minds. > Don’t think all ecstacies > are the same! > > Jesus was lost in his love for God. > His donkey was drunk with barley. > Drink from the presence of saints, > not from those other jars. > > Every object, every being, > is a jar full of delight. > Be a conoisseur, > and taste with caution. > > Any wine will get you high. > Judge like a king, and choose the purest, > the ones unadulterated with fear, > or some urgency about “what’s needed.” > > Drink the wine that moves you > as a camel moves when it’s been untied, > and is just ambling about. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arabian-nights/494738.md?page=2)