# Arafat the "martyr"
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arafat-the-martyr/101482
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [April 2, 2002, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arafat-the-martyr/101482 "2002-04-02T22:33:36Z")
**Posts on this page:** 19
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Karallen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karallen)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2002, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arafat-the-martyr/101482/1 "2002-04-02T22:33:36Z")
> [@](#):
>
> mar·tyr Pronunciation Key (märtr)
> n.
> One who chooses to suffer death rather than renounce religious principles.
> One who makes great sacrifices or suffers much in order to further a belief, cause, or principle.
>
> One who endures great suffering: a martyr to arthritis.
> One who makes a great show of suffering in order to arouse sympathy.
>
> tr.v. mar·tyred, mar·tyr·ing, mar·tyrs
> To make a martyr of, especially to put to death for devotion to religious beliefs.
> To inflict great pain on; torment.
```
I had heard Arafat being quoted as saying something to the effect of if he is killed, he will die as a martyr. Currently, he is holed up in his compound, surrounded by the Israeli Army. Now, Sharon is proposing Arafat's exile from Israel.
[(Article here)](http://www.msnbc.com/news/677951.asp).
Does Arafat still view himself as a martyr in the making? And what's to stop him from ordering one of his 'guards' to shoot him; it might look like the Israelis did it, and then would he be a martyr?
```
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### Author:  [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2002, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arafat-the-martyr/101482/2 "2002-04-02T23:06:08Z")
> [@](#):
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> Does Arafat still view himself as a martyr in the making?
I think he still sees the possibility as a valid insurance policy on his life. Although I’m sure he’s questioning that at the moment.
> [@](#):
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> And what’s to stop him from ordering one of his ‘guards’ to shoot him
Apart from not wanting to die?
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### Author:  [@Karallen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karallen)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2002, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arafat-the-martyr/101482/3 "2002-04-02T23:47:32Z")
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by andros \*
> \*\*
>
> I think he still sees the possibility as a valid insurance policy on his life. Although I’m sure he’s questioning that at the moment.
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> Apart from not wanting to die? \*\*
Funny you should mention that…after I last posted, I found a quote from NEWSWEEK that says “I want to be a martyr, martyr , martyr” Apparently he does…
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### Author:  [@Kaje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaje)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2002, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arafat-the-martyr/101482/4 "2002-04-02T23:50:29Z")
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by Karallen \*
> \*\*And what’s to stop him from ordering one of his ‘guards’ to shoot him; it might look like the Israelis did it, and then would he be a martyr? \*\*
Well, though others may disagree, he appears to me to be less of an extremist than some in that part of the world when it comes to attempted instigation of ww3. He probably still figures he can do more good for his cause alive than dead, especially since his untimely death can mean little short of heightened conflict in an already more than tedious situation.
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### Author:  [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)
#### Post date: [April 3, 2002, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arafat-the-martyr/101482/5 "2002-04-03T03:10:37Z")
Arafat does not want to be a martyr. In fact, the reason why the Palestinians are in such a mess today is that Arafat is a coward who has continually refused to stick his neck out on behalf of his people. Arafat’s primary skill is assuring Arafat’s survival.
Do you know why he turned down the best deal he knew he was ever going to get with Israel? Because he would have been in danger from militants in his own government.
Arafat has survived as a leader in one of the most volatile areas in the world, surrounded by militant nutbars, when just about all of his peers are dead or retired. That’s no accident - survival is Arafat’s best trick.
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### Author:  [@Abe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abe)
#### Post date: [April 3, 2002, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arafat-the-martyr/101482/6 "2002-04-03T06:55:02Z")
Tsk, tsk, **Sam** , why do I keep seeing you making unsupported claims on this topic?
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by Sam Stone \*
> Arafat does not want to be a martyr. In fact, the reason why the Palestinians are in such a mess today is that Arafat is a coward who has continually refused to stick his neck out on behalf of his people. Arafat’s primary skill is assuring Arafat’s survival.
A coward would have got the hell out of the region and lived a comfortable life without ever coming back to such a dangerous place _and_ job. Say what you will about him, but Arafat has dedicated his life to the Palestinian cause, risking life and limb every single day just by being there and being who he is.
> [@](#):
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> Do you know why he turned down the best deal he knew he was ever going to get with Israel? Because he would have been in danger from militants in his own government.
Oh sweet angels! Sam, did it occur to you that he turned down the Barak deal because it failed to address a couple of key issues that the Palestinians considered critical, such as Jerusalem and right of return? How do you manage to come up with these statements?
> [@](#):
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> Arafat has survived as a leader in one of the most volatile areas in the world, surrounded by militant nutbars, when just about all of his peers are dead or retired. That’s no accident - survival is Arafat’s best trick.
Survival does not equal cowardice. And yes, Arafat is the great survivor of the Middle East, a fact that has helped him win support more than once.
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### Author:  [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)
#### Post date: [April 3, 2002, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arafat-the-martyr/101482/7 "2002-04-03T07:12:57Z")
> [@](#):
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> Funny you should mention that…after I last posted, I found a quote from NEWSWEEK that says “I want to be a martyr, martyr , martyr” Apparently he does…
No. Whatever else on may say, **Sam** ’s right on that one. He doesn’t want to die, and I think a reading of Arafat’s comments in context shows that. (I can’t find that quotation on Newsweek’s site, BTW . . . were you paraphrasing?)
Given the choice between capture and imprisonment by the Israelis on the one hand, and martyrdom on the other, he has stated that he would rather accept martyrdom. A kind of “You’ll never take me alive, coppers” philosophy. But he does not seek death. (I think the strongest argument for that is simply that in Israel, death could easily have been his for the taking for many years.)
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### Author:  [@istara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/istara)
#### Post date: [April 3, 2002, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arafat-the-martyr/101482/8 "2002-04-03T09:15:44Z")
It’s not really relevant whether Arafat personally wants or intends to be a martyr or not. The point is that if he is killed as a result of this conflict, he WILL be seen as a martyr by Palestinians, and many Arabs and Muslims in the wider community. And possibly many non-Arabs and non-Muslims too.
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### Author:  [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)
#### Post date: [April 3, 2002, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arafat-the-martyr/101482/9 "2002-04-03T09:24:46Z")
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by Sam Stone \*
> **…Arafat is a coward who has continually refused to stick his neck out on behalf of his people. Arafat’s primary skill is assuring Arafat’s survival.**
Sharon has offered him a safe ticket out courtesy of the European Union. If he takes this offer, I will agree with you. Until he does, I am at odds with this statement.
I do, however, agree with **istara** , in that his death would create a martyr, whether anyone wants it or not.
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### Author:  [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)
#### Post date: [April 3, 2002, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arafat-the-martyr/101482/10 "2002-04-03T15:36:56Z")
> [@](#):
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> he WILL be seen as a martyr
Yes. That’s what Arafat’s saying, and that’s the answer to the OP.
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### Author:  [@Toaster52](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toaster52)
#### Post date: [April 3, 2002, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arafat-the-martyr/101482/11 "2002-04-03T16:24:42Z")
What **I** would like to see from Arafat are some proposals such as: here’s how I’m going to rebuild the roads; here’s how I’m going to rebuild the schools; here’s how I’m going to rebuild the sewers, the airports, the trains, help the farmers, bring in overseas investments, what _kind_ of government will be put into place, what sort of laws will we have, etc etc etc…
And not least of all: “Hey, morons!!! Stop blowing yourselves up!! You’re more valuable alive than dead!!!”
But unless I completely missed it, Arafat has never _once_ tried to give his followers HOPE FOR THE FUTURE…SOMETHING TO WORK _ **FOR** _, NOT AGAINST. If he wants to truly help the Palestinians obtain their own homeland, then for Chrissakes, get his people to stop blowing up women and children!! At the least, if he feels like continuing this war, then target military targets, not women and children. Run out there and hug a tank, for crying out loud.
And here’s a thought: if Arafat truly believes in the efficacy of suicide bombings…then why isn’t HE out there with some dynamite strapped to his fat ass??
Israel has a lot to answer for, as does the entire world community, for creating this situation and not doing enough to end it. But I will NEVER support some person/religion/country who will actively encourage suicide bombings as a way of achieving an objective.
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### Author:  [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)
#### Post date: [April 4, 2002, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arafat-the-martyr/101482/12 "2002-04-04T12:55:13Z")
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by Toaster52 \*
> **if Arafat truly believes in the efficacy of suicide bombings**
Who ever said that he does? Cite, please.
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### Author:  [@Toaster52](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toaster52)
#### Post date: [April 4, 2002, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arafat-the-martyr/101482/13 "2002-04-04T21:14:35Z")
**jjimm**
> [@](#):
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> \*Who ever said that he does? \*
Well, if he doesn’t, why isn’t he trying to stop the bombers? In any case, it was more of a rhetorical question, designed to perhaps illustrate this point:
Arafat: “Gee, suicide bombing is such a wonderful thing! You, there, go blow yourself up!”
Idiot: “Who, ME?? Why not do it yourself?”
Arafat: “Are you kidding? I don’t want to die!”
Idiot: “Oh; OK, then…”
If I were trying to overthrow what I would perceive to be an unjust ruler, I’d be trying to kill THEM, not me!!!
Of course, if I could get someone ELSE to blow themselves up…
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### Author:  [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)
#### Post date: [April 5, 2002, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arafat-the-martyr/101482/14 "2002-04-05T02:17:20Z")
Here’s a pretty good editorial in the \Washington Post\ about the nature of Arafat: [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A54332-2002Apr2.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A54332-2002Apr2.html)
An Excerpt, describing Arafat’s return from exile in Tunisia to start up the Palestinian Authority:
> [@](#):
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> I went as a reporter to Gaza a few hours before Arafat arrived, and I stayed there for about five weeks, observing the early days of life and governance under the Palestinian Authority.
>
> Arafat’s entry into Gaza was an object lesson: a purposely uncaring display of brute power. He arrived from the Sinai in a long caravan of Chevrolet Blazers and Mercedes-Benzes and BMWs, 70 or 80 cars packed to the rooflines with men with guns. The caravan roared up the thronged roads and down the mobbed streets, with the overfed, leather-jacketed, sunglassed thugs of Arafat’s bodyguard detail all the time screaming and shooting off their Kalashnikovs to make their beloved people scurry out of their beloved leader’s way.
>
> This was the whole of the Palestinian Authority from the beginning, an ugly little cartoon of Middle East despotism. There was never any pretense of democracy, of rule of law, of a free press, of a working system of taxes or courts or hospitals. There was never any real government. No one ever bothered to build an economy or create jobs or even pick up the trash or pave the streets. There were only security forces – many, many of these – and villas by the sea for Arafat’s cronies, and millions of dollars in foreign aid that seemed to always turn up missing, and prisons and propaganda. And in the middle of it all: “President” Arafat sitting in a room – surrounded by waiting sycophants and toadies and respectful ladies and gentlemen of the press – and complaining.
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### Author:  [@barton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barton)
#### Post date: [April 5, 2002, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arafat-the-martyr/101482/15 "2002-04-05T02:56:21Z")
Sam Stone’s quote there is the best description of Palestinian government I’ve seen in some time.
Take that infamous ship o’ weapons, filled with not just arms, but millions of dollars in arms (courtesy of Iran & co). That could have been spent on anything else, schools, roads, job creation, investment. Instead the bulk of any aid is funneled into armed resistance and strengthening the police. Of course, it’s quite possible the aid was given on the condition that it came in the form of weaponry, but they took it anyway.
I’ve advocated the Palestinians taking a passive resistance route, but I just thought of another - the capitalist route. If they built the West Bank up into tourist traps, they’d have Israel on its knees. Any Palestinian gambling casinos, perchance?
Mike Duncan
[http://www.weeklylowdown.com](http://www.weeklylowdown.com)
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### Author:  [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)
#### Post date: [April 5, 2002, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arafat-the-martyr/101482/16 "2002-04-05T08:14:01Z")
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by Toaster52 \*
> **Well, if he doesn’t, why isn’t he trying to stop the bombers?**
There is a school of thought that he simply _can’t_.
In the same way that Israel couldn’t prevent the assassination of Rabin, the US couldn’t prevent Oklahoma, the UK couldn’t prevent Canary Wharf, and the IRA couldn’t prevent the Omagh bombing by the RIRA (a situation not unlike the PLO/Hamas one).
Not to examine this possibility is to swallow what Sharon’s government is saying hook, line and sinker without question. Of course, they may be right, but I did ask for a cite, and you don’t seem to have been able to find me one.
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### Author:  [@Toaster52](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toaster52)
#### Post date: [April 5, 2002, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arafat-the-martyr/101482/17 "2002-04-05T20:47:48Z")
**jjimm**
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> _but I did ask for a cite, and you don’t seem to have been able to find me one._
True, and you know why? I made the statement
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> _if Arafat truly believes in the efficacy of suicide bombings_
as a question, not a statement of fact. If I had been trying to claim a fact, I would necessarily and properly be taken to ask for not supplying a cite when requested to do so. However, since I was posing a _hypothetical scenario_, no such citing is necessary.
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### Author:  [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2002, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arafat-the-martyr/101482/18 "2002-04-06T01:13:56Z")
This is what I think is happening.
Arafat does want to be rid of suicide bombers and the instigators, his potential rivals, in the terrtories. But he cannot have his troops engage the terror groups without causing a devastating civil war in the Palestinian terrorities. So what is a good way of getting rid of the terrorist groups, while the same time keeping the people in the territories united behind him? Of course, have the efficient Israeli army do the work for him. What he didn’t count on was Sharon’s insatiable desire to settle old scores.
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### Author:  [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2002, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arafat-the-martyr/101482/19 "2002-04-06T01:56:29Z")
The problem with that theory is that Arafat is the one directly ordering the bombings. The Israelis have turning up a bunch of documents for suicide bomb parts signed by Arafat himself, searches of the PA headquarters have turned up all kinds of explosives and weapons, and the majority of suicide bombers in the last several months were members of Arafat’s own organization.
There is just no way you can get around the fact that Arafat was sending people to blow themselves up in restaraunts and Day Care centers. He’s a terrorist and a murderer. Anyone who doubts that hasn’t been paying attention.