# Aransas Cty (TX) judge beats daughter for downloading from the Internet (2004 incident) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 2, 2011, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aransas-cty-tx-judge-beats-daughter-for-downloading-from-the-internet-2004-incident/601577 "2011-11-02T01:41:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aransas-cty-tx-judge-beats-daughter-for-downloading-from-the-internet-2004-incident/601577/81 "2011-11-02T23:34:51Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > No, he shouldn’t have beaten her like to that extent. But I know a LOT of kids who would simply shrug off groundings and non-physical discipline. She was not shrugging it off. She was crying and terrified. > [@](#): > > The ONLY thing that affected their behavior was getting physically disciplined. I was lucky enough that my daughter was pretty obedient. I guess your daughter was lucky too. > [@](#): > > But this kid was apparently out of control. WTF are you basing that on? As I said elsewhere, is this Lynn or did someone hijack your account? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aransas-cty-tx-judge-beats-daughter-for-downloading-from-the-internet-2004-incident/601577/82 "2011-11-02T23:36:11Z")
I don’t know. I probably wouldn’t spank a 16 year old, but it’s not like a crazy absurd “My God, that’s horrible!” type of thing, and I know a few people who were spanked in their middle/late teens. It’s not common, but it happens. And this guy wasn’t “throwing his fists about”. He was belting her, or trying to. I mean, I think the guy was wrong and out of control, and if this leads to some sort of backlash for him, I’m not going to cry about it. But I think there’s more going on here than just that, and some deeper problems that the two of them have with each other than just that. Because making the video and then sitting on it for seven years to then release it on Youtube in the middle of the guy’s election campaign suggests a certain kind of disfunctionalism in their relationship, and not knowing enough to judge, I’m not going to say that the whole thing is his fault. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aransas-cty-tx-judge-beats-daughter-for-downloading-from-the-internet-2004-incident/601577/83 "2011-11-02T23:40:59Z")
Judge William Adams spoke to reporter Andy Liscano, admitting it was him in the video, but says “it’s not as bad as it seems” and said he apologized to his daughter for the incident. Ah yes, the old “who are you going to believe, me, or your own lyin’ eyes?” defense. Also please add me to the (sure to grow) “Lynn, you’ve got to be out of your mind” list. That wasn’t “physical discipline”, that was vicious emotional and physical abuse of a minor child. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aransas-cty-tx-judge-beats-daughter-for-downloading-from-the-internet-2004-incident/601577/84 "2011-11-02T23:42:42Z")
**Captain Amazing** , you say that was a [mild beating](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14422269&postcount=5), not a vicious one. What, IYHO, would a vicious beating entail? ---
**Author:** ![koeeoaddi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/koeeoaddi/32/408_2.png) [@koeeoaddi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/koeeoaddi)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aransas-cty-tx-judge-beats-daughter-for-downloading-from-the-internet-2004-incident/601577/85 "2011-11-02T23:42:58Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > But I think there’s more going on here than just that, and some deeper problems that the two of them have with each other than just that. Because making the video and then sitting on it for seven years to then release it on Youtube in the middle of the guy’s election campaign suggests a certain kind of disfunctionalism in their relationship, and not knowing enough to judge, I’m not going to say that the whole thing is his fault. What’s going on doesn’t look like discipline to me. It looks like garden variety domestic abuse. I’d bet 50 bucks that mom was repeating more or less what was said to her when she was being similarly “disciplined”. ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aransas-cty-tx-judge-beats-daughter-for-downloading-from-the-internet-2004-incident/601577/86 "2011-11-02T23:44:23Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > But I think there’s more going on here than just that, and some deeper problems that the two of them have with each other than just that. Because making the video and then sitting on it for seven years to then release it on Youtube in the middle of the guy’s election campaign suggests a certain kind of disfunctionalism in their relationship, and not knowing enough to judge, I’m not going to say that the whole thing is his fault. Ockham’s razor. I think being raised by a maniacal abuser who has a large amount of authority in the community easily explains any dysfunctional dynamics. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aransas-cty-tx-judge-beats-daughter-for-downloading-from-the-internet-2004-incident/601577/87 "2011-11-02T23:46:24Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > " > > A lot of non-parents vow to never physically discipline their kids. Then, they have kids. If they keep their vow, they usually end up with out of control kids who will do as they damn well please. It’s VERY easy to say that you would never do something in a certain situation, until you’ve been in that situation. > > . That is some of the biggest bullshit I’ve ever read. I have a 13 and 16 year old and I assure you they are anything but out of control. The never needed physical punishment. What you wrote there is just ludicrous and is what people tell themselves to justify doing awful things to their kids. I’m stunned. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aransas-cty-tx-judge-beats-daughter-for-downloading-from-the-internet-2004-incident/601577/88 "2011-11-02T23:47:23Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Because making the video and then sitting on it for seven years to then release it on Youtube in the middle of the guy’s election campaign suggests a certain kind of disfunctionalism in their relationship, and not knowing enough to judge, I’m not going to say that the whole thing is his fault. You don’t think the video **itself** suggests a certain kind of dysfunctionalism in their relationship? ETA: And I think an out-of-control teenager would have responded along the lines of “Fuck you” or hitting back, instead of sobbing “No, no!” He had her completely under his control, and yet we never saw him satisfied. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aransas-cty-tx-judge-beats-daughter-for-downloading-from-the-internet-2004-incident/601577/89 "2011-11-02T23:48:41Z")
So if you’re not going to say it was all his fault, then she at least partislly deserves to be abused, then? how she coils up in fear, and beats her while demanding she assume the proper position so he can beat her some more…this wasn’t about controlling his daughter’s bwhavior, it was about an angry abusive man venting his anger by beating a defenseless little girl. You can tell he felt like a real big man with each swing, utterly disgusting. No one would ever treat someone they actually love that way. ---
**Author:** ![Ca3799](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@Ca3799](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ca3799)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aransas-cty-tx-judge-beats-daughter-for-downloading-from-the-internet-2004-incident/601577/90 "2011-11-02T23:50:30Z")
From the father’s complaining about not wanting the computer “back” in the house, the mother is talking about taking some classes, and the father doing some mumbling about 2 months and 6 months when the daughter is down beside the bed on the left and the dad is yelling in her ear (or so), it would seem to me that the parents had removed the computer for two months already for downloading. At the beginning of the tape, the mother said to the father that she had already spanked the kid. I think she may have been trying to head him off. Later, when the mom was trying to convince the daughter to take one good whack ‘like a woman’, she may have been trying to head the dad off again. But, I’m not willing to give her much slack. That’s a horrible way to treat any person- especially a kid. ---
**Author:** ![Commander\_Fortune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Commander\_Fortune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Commander_Fortune)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aransas-cty-tx-judge-beats-daughter-for-downloading-from-the-internet-2004-incident/601577/91 "2011-11-02T23:55:51Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > But she was determined to break the law, even though she’s evidently been beaten before. Which tells you how effective it was as a corrective device. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aransas-cty-tx-judge-beats-daughter-for-downloading-from-the-internet-2004-incident/601577/92 "2011-11-02T23:56:29Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > I’m not justifying it. The fuck you aren’t. > [@](#): > > However, I do wonder what other things he’s tried…and whether there was ANYTHING to prevent her from breaking the law, repeatedly. She did it before. Apparently she intended to do it again. > > And I wonder what would have been effective to get her to stop, if she knew damned well that this behavior WOULD get her beaten? Again, should he have just shipped her off to a camp of some sort? > > Tell me, what do you think he should have done, that he hadn’t done? What would have stopped her, short of shutting her into a camp? > > No, he shouldn’t have beaten her like to that extent. But I know a LOT of kids who would simply shrug off groundings and non-physical discipline. The ONLY thing that affected their behavior was getting physically disciplined. I was lucky enough that my daughter was pretty obedient. > > And yes, kids ARE supposed to obey their parents. Some rebellion is healthy and should be expected. But this kid was apparently out of control…and whether she was handicapped or not had nothing to do with her problems. It would be different if she was mentally handicapped, and didn’t understand that she was doing something wrong. But she knew before she did it that she was doing something illegal, but she just didn’t care. What the hell, woman, are you on crack? You sicken me. Illegally downloading music is not “out of control”. :rolleyes: I can only imagine what your idea of “discipline” was. (And most kids don’t think of downloading music as a major crime. Gah, I’m glad you weren’t my mom) > [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > I don’t know. I probably wouldn’t spank a 16 year old, but it’s not like a crazy absurd “My God, that’s horrible!” type of thing, and I know a few people who were spanked in their middle/late teens. It’s not common, but it happens. > > And this guy wasn’t “throwing his fists about”. He was belting her, or trying to. I mean, I think the guy was wrong and out of control, and if this leads to some sort of backlash for him, I’m not going to cry about it. But I think there’s more going on here than just that, and some deeper problems that the two of them have with each other than just that. Because making the video and then sitting on it for seven years to then release it on Youtube in the middle of the guy’s election campaign suggests a certain kind of disfunctionalism in their relationship, and not knowing enough to judge, I’m not going to say that the whole thing is his fault. So as long as he wasn’t “throwing his fists about”, it’s okay? Jesus. And yeah, I’d say there’s some “disfunctionalism in their relationship”. When your dad beats the living shit out of you, I’d say he has a great deal of responsibility. HE’S the adult here. (God, the worst thing my dad ever did was shove a bar of soap in my mouth after I swore at his boss) Some of you here scare me. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aransas-cty-tx-judge-beats-daughter-for-downloading-from-the-internet-2004-incident/601577/93 "2011-11-02T23:59:54Z")
> [@Lynn Bodoni](#): > > A lot of non-parents vow to never physically discipline their kids. Then, they have kids. If they keep their vow, they usually end up with out of control kids who will do as they damn well please. Usually? Really? REALLY? So parents who don’t physically discipline their kids usually end up with egocentric brats, sociopaths and/or thugs, huh? I know this isn’t GD, but for Christ’s sake, a comment like that needs a fucking cite. Do you have one? > [@Lynn Bodoni](#): > > I was lucky enough that my daughter was pretty obedient. I’d say your kid was unbelievably lucky herself, except your comments are not the comments of a person who never used violence to “discipline” their child. They are utter bullshit, self-justifying ones. So no. Probably not a lucky kid at all. ---
**Author:** ![LurkerInNJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ed655f/32.png) [@LurkerInNJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkerInNJ)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aransas-cty-tx-judge-beats-daughter-for-downloading-from-the-internet-2004-incident/601577/94 "2011-11-03T00:04:39Z")
[QUOTE=Lynn Bodoni;14422082But sometimes, yes, there’s nothing that will get through but a swat on the butt.[/QUOTE] Swat on the butt, no problem. This was a sadistic beating. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aransas-cty-tx-judge-beats-daughter-for-downloading-from-the-internet-2004-incident/601577/95 "2011-11-03T00:07:35Z")
[QUOTE=Lynn Bodoni] … [/QUOTE] Aren’t you the one who got all butthurt about being called a cunt? And yet you think that physically abusing you kids to disciple them is OK? So, IOW, using expletives is terrible, physically abusing children is OK, as long as it’s justified. WOW. I’m sure glad Ed Fucki intervened to clean this place up. It’d be terrible if someone who advocates beating children was called a four letter word. Let’s ban that word. And everything will be puppies and rainbows. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aransas-cty-tx-judge-beats-daughter-for-downloading-from-the-internet-2004-incident/601577/96 "2011-11-03T00:12:08Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > **Captain Amazing** , you say that was a [mild beating](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14422269&postcount=5), not a vicious one. What, IYHO, would a vicious beating entail? Presumably a trip to the hospital. Of course she probably had that coming too.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![FloatyGimpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/floatygimpy/32/7750_2.png) [@FloatyGimpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FloatyGimpy)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aransas-cty-tx-judge-beats-daughter-for-downloading-from-the-internet-2004-incident/601577/97 "2011-11-03T00:14:28Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > A lot of non-parents vow to never physically discipline their kids. Then, they have kids. If they keep their vow, they usually end up with out of control kids who will do as they damn well please. It’s VERY easy to say that you would never do something in a certain situation, until you’ve been in that situation. This is absolute bull shit. I was that girl. I also got into the most trouble of all my friends. The ones who weren’t hit were polite, did well in school and didn’t get into trouble. I was beaten with belts, hit on the head and choked. Yet I got into worse and worse stuff like shoplifting, vandalism and breaking and entering. For some reason when I was about 15, my parents decided that I wasn’t going to get hit anymore and I instantly stopped getting into mischief. > [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > But I think there’s more going on here than just that, and some deeper problems that the two of them have with each other than just that. There’s nothing “going on between them”. It’s an adult assaulting a minor, nothing else. That’s like my mom asking my dad if there was anything sexual “going on between us”. He was abusing me and that man was abusing his child. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aransas-cty-tx-judge-beats-daughter-for-downloading-from-the-internet-2004-incident/601577/98 "2011-11-03T00:14:59Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > **Captain Amazing** , you say that was a [mild beating](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14422269&postcount=5), not a vicious one. What, IYHO, would a vicious beating entail? Bruises? Broken bones? Have you ever seen somebody after they were viciously beaten? It sounds like where our disagreement is is that you (and I could be putting words in your mouth, so correct me if I’m wrong) think that any sort of physical punishment (spanking, paddling, belting) of a teenager is _prima facie_ abuse. I don’t think that’s true. I don’t think it’s usually a good idea. I don’t think if I had kids I’d do it. But I think a parent can do it and not be abusive. And while this guy was surely out of control in this instance, and said some pretty nasty things, the fact is, the girl got 18 swats on her clothed butt and thighs with the belt. ---
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aransas-cty-tx-judge-beats-daughter-for-downloading-from-the-internet-2004-incident/601577/99 "2011-11-03T00:19:51Z")
Oh my fucking God. That was not discipline, that was not a frustrated parent temporarily losing his or her cool, that was out-of-control, stone-cold abuse by both parents. And I say this as someone well-versed in domestic violence and also as someone not averse to corporal punishment (aka an attention-getting swat on the butt) in some situations. **Lynn Bodoni** , any respect I had for you is gone forever. Your daughter is just lucky she is naturally compliant. I’m not sure what I want to say to you is allowable in the Pit so I’ll leave it at that. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aransas-cty-tx-judge-beats-daughter-for-downloading-from-the-internet-2004-incident/601577/100 "2011-11-03T00:26:05Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Bruises? Broken bones? Have you ever seen somebody after they were viciously beaten? What I saw was bad enough. > [@](#): > > It sounds like where our disagreement is is that you (and I could be putting words in your mouth, so correct me if I’m wrong) think that any sort of physical punishment (spanking, paddling, belting) of a teenager is _prima facie_ abuse. No, I don’t think spanking is _prima facie_ abuse. > [@](#): > > And while this guy was surely out of control in this instance, and said some pretty nasty things, the fact is, the girl got 18 swats on her clothed butt and thighs with the belt. For me, it comes down to the face that he was out of control, and said some pretty nasty things. It’s the level of his anger that I find frightening. As I said above, he was never satisfied. “Are you happy now?” That’s a classic line from an abuser. You can hear him muttering outside the room. No one has that much anger because of one kid. And as I also said above, truly OOC kids tend to fight back and curse their parents and generally continue defying them while being punished. And no, I don’t think failure to bend over on her stomach was defying him. She was terrified, not defiant. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aransas-cty-tx-judge-beats-daughter-for-downloading-from-the-internet-2004-incident/601577.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aransas-cty-tx-judge-beats-daughter-for-downloading-from-the-internet-2004-incident/601577.md?page=6)