# Aransas Cty (TX) judge beats daughter for downloading from the Internet (2004 incident) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 2, 2011, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aransas-cty-tx-judge-beats-daughter-for-downloading-from-the-internet-2004-incident/601577 "2011-11-02T01:41:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aransas-cty-tx-judge-beats-daughter-for-downloading-from-the-internet-2004-incident/601577/101 "2011-11-03T00:29:32Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Bruises? Broken bones? Have you ever seen somebody after they were viciously beaten? > > It sounds like where our disagreement is is that you (and I could be putting words in your mouth, so correct me if I’m wrong) think that any sort of physical punishment (spanking, paddling, belting) of a teenager is _prima facie_ abuse. I don’t think that’s true. I don’t think it’s usually a good idea. I don’t think if I had kids I’d do it. But I think a parent can do it and not be abusive. And while this guy was surely out of control in this instance, and said some pretty nasty things, the fact is, the girl got 18 swats on her clothed butt and thighs with the belt. Look man no offense, But I’m pretty damn certain I could put you in a _world_ of hurt with a leather belt through your clothes. A person does not have to be left in a twitching bloody pile to be abused. This guy was not dispassionately disciplining, nor was there any sort of order or control to the situation. He was wailing on a kid in Pj’s with a leather belt pretty much anyplace he could strike her, and ordering her to be compliant and obedient. That isn’t even remotely close to discipline territory. ---
**Author:** ![Commander\_Fortune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Commander\_Fortune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Commander_Fortune)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aransas-cty-tx-judge-beats-daughter-for-downloading-from-the-internet-2004-incident/601577/102 "2011-11-03T00:35:33Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > Look man no offense, But I’m pretty damn certain I could put you in a _world_ of hurt with a leather belt through your clothes. A person does not have to be left in a twitching bloody pile to be abused. This guy was not dispassionately disciplining, nor was there any sort of order or control to the situation. He was wailing on a kid in Pj’s with a leather belt pretty much anyplace he could strike her, and ordering her to be compliant and obedient. That isn’t even remotely close to discipline territory. Indeed. When you’re using a weapon, it’s pretty much _not_ discipline any more. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aransas-cty-tx-judge-beats-daughter-for-downloading-from-the-internet-2004-incident/601577/103 "2011-11-03T00:41:22Z")
What’s really depressing is that this same shit is going on in millions of homes across the world. This girl just happened to be brave and smart enough to get back at her abuser. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aransas-cty-tx-judge-beats-daughter-for-downloading-from-the-internet-2004-incident/601577/104 "2011-11-03T00:42:17Z")
> [@Commander\_Fortune](#): > > Indeed. When you’re using a weapon, it’s pretty much _not_ discipline any more. I mostly agree with you but there can be times when an implement is used and it is still discipline. I was “spanked” with belts, the back of brushes, and my dad’s hand when I was a young child until I was old enough to be talked to and grounded. That belt _hurt_ and I’m a not known for being a pansy. In fact, I got the belt because I’d shrug off hand spanks and was not quite old enough to be reasoned with fully. Still, when dad brought it out, he was a calm as he could possibly be and never, _ever_, engaged in anything even remotely resembling that video. It was never more than one or two good whacks either. Then it was over, and when I’d gotten the sniffles out he’d explain to me why exactly I’d been punished. I’m not completely against all corporal punishment by any means, but this is just abuse. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aransas-cty-tx-judge-beats-daughter-for-downloading-from-the-internet-2004-incident/601577/105 "2011-11-03T00:42:18Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > What I saw was bad enough. > > No, I don’t think spanking is _prima facie_ abuse. > > For me, it comes down to the face that he was out of control, and said some pretty nasty things. It’s the level of his anger that I find frightening. As I said above, he was never satisfied. “Are you happy now?” That’s a classic line from an abuser. You can hear him muttering outside the room. No one has that much anger because of one kid. And as I also said above, truly OOC kids tend to fight back and curse their parents and generally continue defying them while being punished. And no, I don’t think failure to bend over on her stomach was defying him. She was terrified, not defiant. Moreover, it is ludicrous to call them “swats.” Those were blows. He was putting all of his strength into wide-leverage swings. Also, the kid IMO has no obligation to comply to any of his commands in a situation like this. Refusing to lay down is not “defiance” in any reasonable sense of the word. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aransas-cty-tx-judge-beats-daughter-for-downloading-from-the-internet-2004-incident/601577/106 "2011-11-03T00:47:51Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Moreover, it is ludicrous to call them “swats.” Those were blows. He was putting all of his strength into wide-leverage swings. > > Also, the kid IMO has no obligation to comply to any of his commands in a situation like this. **Refusing to lay down is not “defiance” in any reasonable sense of the word**. Bolded for emphasis. Nobody, and I mean nobody, is wrong for failing to meekly accept or resist a beating. ---
**Author:** ![beachbetch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@beachbetch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beachbetch)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aransas-cty-tx-judge-beats-daughter-for-downloading-from-the-internet-2004-incident/601577/107 "2011-11-03T01:26:47Z")
Defending the beating of a 16 year old girl with cerebral palsy is completely shitty. If a random stranger did that to her, he would be in jail. Since it’s her father it’s supposed to fall under “discipline” apparently. I am glad to hear that she is safe and out of the home now and I hope her little sister is too (the toddler in the video). He deserved everything he gets. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aransas-cty-tx-judge-beats-daughter-for-downloading-from-the-internet-2004-incident/601577/108 "2011-11-03T01:35:30Z")
It sounds like the daughter set up the camera, knowing it would happen…because she didn’t listen to her parents. That’s the first thing the judge says in the video. I believe it’s likely she wanted it to happen so she could record it. I also think it’s likely the judge has a temper and it’s not the first time. She refuses to bend over the bed and screams, making him even angrier and hitting her more. Where I grew up, a whack on the ass with a belt was not unheard of. I didn’t get the belt, but I got a [paddle/board](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paddle_%28spanking%29). It STILL hurts me to this day to think about it. Actually, once it was so bad I was black and blue and couldn’t sit without a pillow. Ours was thicker than the one in the Wiki link. iirc, some schools still allow corporal punishment. The sad thing is that this stuff is expected and commonplace. Not sure how Texas does things but maybe this is how some Dopers were raised as well? The message put under the video by the daughter sounds extremely angry. I think parents got divorced and she sided with mom and ‘let her off the hook’. CLEARLY the dad is very angry and clearly the daughter was just not listening. I know, I know, take away the computer. But think about c 2004- for a judge, stealing music and videos perhaps was a stronger offense for him than it was for us? You can tell he’s not only angry, but frustrated. He hit her and is yelling at her but he’s not feeling any better. He’s taking that disobeying thing extremely personally. I’ve yelled at my kid and felt SO FREAKING FRUSTRATED and helpless. I went back and apologized for being The Worst Mother Ever and didn’t beat him with a belt, but this is why you shouldn’t use corporal punishment on kids. Parents get pissed. Putting a weapon in their hands is not a good idea. That judge needs to get into counseling, stat. That was abuse, what he did, and there’s still a little girl at home. Plus that family needs to heal. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aransas-cty-tx-judge-beats-daughter-for-downloading-from-the-internet-2004-incident/601577/109 "2011-11-03T01:47:11Z")
Oh: [Here’s a map of states via Wiki that shows where corporal punishment is allowed.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Corporal_punishment_in_the_United_States.svg) Why did the daughter wait until she was 23 to release this video? Isn’t the judge up for re-election? That sounds kind of fishy. ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aransas-cty-tx-judge-beats-daughter-for-downloading-from-the-internet-2004-incident/601577/110 "2011-11-03T01:48:18Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > Oh: [Here’s a map of states via Wiki that shows where corporal punishment is allowed.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Corporal_punishment_in_the_United_States.svg) > > Why did the daughter wait until she was 23 to release this video? Isn’t the judge up for re-election? That sounds kind of fishy. It sounds kind of _awesome_ to me. ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aransas-cty-tx-judge-beats-daughter-for-downloading-from-the-internet-2004-incident/601577/111 "2011-11-03T01:53:28Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > Where I grew up, a whack on the ass with a belt was not unheard of. I didn’t get the belt, but I got a [paddle/board](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paddle_%28spanking%29). It STILL hurts me to this day to think about it. Actually, once it was so bad I was black and blue and couldn’t sit without a pillow. Ours was thicker than the one in the Wiki link. iirc, some schools still allow corporal punishment. > > The sad thing is that this stuff is expected and commonplace. Not sure how Texas does things but maybe this is how some Dopers were raised as well? I grew up in Texas. Our coach in high school had one of those, proudly displayed on the wall with a sign - the “Board of education”. But his had holes drilled through it like Swiss cheese to cut down the wind resistance so it could be swung harder. And that thing hurt like hell. Even so, it was a relatively calm, sterile kind of punishment. You went in, he took your wallet and any other padding you tried to hide in your back pockets, then hit you on the ass. The sentence was handed down by the teacher or principle usually 1 lick, sometimes 2 licks, I think I remember some getting 3 licks. And that was it, you gathered your wallet and dignity and went back to class. I don’t think I ever knew of one occasion where anyone modified their behavior as a result of it. It wasn’t nearly as traumatic as what it looks like this girl went through on more than one occasion. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aransas-cty-tx-judge-beats-daughter-for-downloading-from-the-internet-2004-incident/601577/112 "2011-11-03T01:55:21Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > Why did the daughter wait until she was 23 to release this video? Because 1) she’s fucking brilliant. And 2) he ruined her life, first. Now she’s ruining his life back. Fair play. If anyone finds out that she needs money for a lawyer, please let me know. ---
**Author:** ![phouka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c5a1d2/32.png) [@phouka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phouka)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aransas-cty-tx-judge-beats-daughter-for-downloading-from-the-internet-2004-incident/601577/113 "2011-11-03T02:04:43Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > It sounds like the daughter set up the camera, knowing it would happen…because she didn’t listen to her parents. That’s the first thing the judge says in the video. I believe it’s likely she wanted it to happen so she could record it. This simply doesn’t matter. Short of putting a gun to his head and threatening to kill him if he didn’t beat her, there is no way that child could have forced him to beat her. He is the adult. He is responsible for his decisions. Any adult who allows themselves to be manipulated into violence by a child has no business being in charge of a child. But then, he wasn’t manipulated. She was just really good at predicting his behavior. I suspect she initially decided to tape it just so that she could prove to herself that it really was that bad, that he really was hurting her. Just owning that proof may have given her the strength to make it to adulthood. As for waiting until she was 23 to release it to the public, my WAG is that once she was out of that house, she did her best to walk away from him and never think of him again. The current election campaign made that impossible, so she decided to destroy him. Good for her. As for the mother, her apology sounds manufactured and hollow. I suspect she was coached by someone - a minister or therapist. I’m sorry, but if the love of my life and father of my children took off after one of them the way this asshole did, the next thing he would encounter would be a cast iron skillet upside his head. Afterwards, I’m sure I’d be quite puzzled as to why he walked away from his perfect life, but the new rose garden would be quite lovely. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aransas-cty-tx-judge-beats-daughter-for-downloading-from-the-internet-2004-incident/601577/114 "2011-11-03T02:20:36Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > I don’t see him being charged with assault with a deadly weapon anyway, honestly. The court is either going to say, “This is reasonable parental discipline,”, or say, “This is child abuse/endangering the welfare of a child”. You’re not going to be charged with assault for physically punishing your minor child in a way that that doesn’t lead to injury, especially in Texas, where belting your kid is practically seen as a parental duty. I don’t disagree - just comparing it to the situation where black teenagers were charged with assault with a deadly weapon, with the weapon being sneakers. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aransas-cty-tx-judge-beats-daughter-for-downloading-from-the-internet-2004-incident/601577/115 "2011-11-03T02:21:07Z")
> [@phouka](#): > > As for the mother, her apology sounds manufactured and hollow. I suspect she was coached by someone - a minister or therapist. I’m sorry, but if the love of my life and father of my children took off after one of them the way this asshole did, the next thing he would encounter would be a cast iron skillet upside his head. Afterwards, I’m sure I’d be quite puzzled as to why he walked away from his perfect life, but the new rose garden would be quite lovely. If you have never been abused, you simply don’t know what you’re talking about. He was a judge, a powerful man in their community. Do you think the mother felt she could simply “walk away” (or, as you implied, kill him) and she would be safe? He would come after her, and he had the resources to do it. It’s very likely he threatened to take her kids, and it’s probably a threat she had reason to fear. And she may have known that with her around, able to calm if if she could, to diffuse it when she could, to step in if she had to- he wouldn’t kill her children. But if he had full custody? What then? You have no idea what that mother has been through; none of us do. But some people have glimpsed what can go on behind closed doors, the way abuse ruins people. It breaks you down. It makes you helpless. Things that seem simple (“just walk away”) aren’t, and not just because people aren’t willing to try. Women who leave abusive husbands get murdered. Their children get murdered. If you have never been abused, you simply don’t know what you’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aransas-cty-tx-judge-beats-daughter-for-downloading-from-the-internet-2004-incident/601577/116 "2011-11-03T02:23:56Z")
> [@Charlie\_Tan](#): > > Aren’t you the one who got all butthurt about being called a cunt?. What, you don’t remember the old adage? “Cunts and twats may cause blood clots, But belts will never harm me.” ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aransas-cty-tx-judge-beats-daughter-for-downloading-from-the-internet-2004-incident/601577/117 "2011-11-03T02:24:14Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > A lot of non-parents vow to never physically discipline their kids. Then, they have kids. If they keep their vow, they usually end up with out of control kids who will do as they damn well please. It’s VERY easy to say that you would never do something in a certain situation, until you’ve been in that situation. I was one of the non-parents who vowed to never physically discipline my future children. I’m now the parent of an 11 year old who has never been disciplined physically by either his mother or myself. If another person were to spank him (or had spanked him when younger), we would have had a very unpleasant discussion about it. It caused a falling out with a friend of mine when I said that while I respected he chose to spank his kids, if he did it to mine when he was over there, there would be trouble. If another person were to take a belt to him like this judge did, the abuser had better hope the police got to him first. ---
**Author:** ![Mince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@Mince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mince)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aransas-cty-tx-judge-beats-daughter-for-downloading-from-the-internet-2004-incident/601577/118 "2011-11-03T02:31:06Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > Here’s what he’s had to say to a reporter in Texas: > > > [@](#): > > > > When asked if he thought the conduct in the video was excessive, Judge Adams said, “It’s not as bad as it looks on tape.” He’s right. The camera adds 10 lashings. ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aransas-cty-tx-judge-beats-daughter-for-downloading-from-the-internet-2004-incident/601577/119 "2011-11-03T02:33:01Z")
Here you go, Lynn. [http://www.facebook.com/groups/167967986630348/](http://www.facebook.com/groups/167967986630348/) ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aransas-cty-tx-judge-beats-daughter-for-downloading-from-the-internet-2004-incident/601577/120 "2011-11-03T02:33:24Z")
Wow, I just have to add the +1 for **Lynn** sounding like a complete scum-bag in this thread. For the record, I never listened to my parents, did (almost) all the bad things kids could do, was never physically disciplined. I was, however, talked to, reprimanded, grounded, reasoned with, etc. I now have a multiple graduate degrees and am part of the uber-evil 1%. It’s called growing up, and it’s a lot easier if you have a healthy, non-traumatic life and a supportive family who loves you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aransas-cty-tx-judge-beats-daughter-for-downloading-from-the-internet-2004-incident/601577.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aransas-cty-tx-judge-beats-daughter-for-downloading-from-the-internet-2004-incident/601577.md?page=7)