# Arbery Shooting in Georgia and Citizen's Arrest \[& similar shootings\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 14, 2020, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arbery-shooting-in-georgia-and-citizens-arrest-similar-shootings/853815 "2020-05-14T23:26:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2021, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arbery-shooting-in-georgia-and-citizens-arrest-similar-shootings/853815/565 "2021-11-30T14:09:39Z")
He was “right by” his father’s house at one point in the conversation. After that he “started to walk back”, and Jeantal asked him to stop doing that, and instead to run away. What part of that is not in the transcript? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2021, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arbery-shooting-in-georgia-and-citizens-arrest-similar-shootings/853815/566 "2021-11-30T14:10:50Z")
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**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2021, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arbery-shooting-in-georgia-and-citizens-arrest-similar-shootings/853815/567 "2021-11-30T14:11:33Z")
I’m closing this topic for 30 minutes. It is over-heated and generating too many flags. **Modnote** : A messy modnote: > [@steronz](#): > > You misunderstood. The things you’re saying she said are lies. She did not say those things. I think you’re saying **Steophan** is repeating lies. But your phrasing is pretty close to calling him a liar, it is unclear and not supported in anyway with your post. Do not do this again. When you start talking about lies, make it clear what you’re saying and support it somehow. Also remember, do not call other posters liars outside of the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2021, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arbery-shooting-in-georgia-and-citizens-arrest-similar-shootings/853815/568 "2021-11-30T14:42:32Z")
This topic was automatically opened after 31 minutes. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2021, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arbery-shooting-in-georgia-and-citizens-arrest-similar-shootings/853815/569 "2021-11-30T14:55:16Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > What are you basing that on? That’s not where his body was Wtf? Yes, it was. He was two buildings away from his dad’s front door. I’ve told my wife I’m ‘right by’ the house when I was walking the dogs literally a dozen times further away. “Right by” doesn’t mean he was knocking at the door… ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2021, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arbery-shooting-in-georgia-and-citizens-arrest-similar-shootings/853815/570 "2021-11-30T15:00:07Z")
You’d say you were right by something when you were half a mile away? Odd usage, and certainly not the plain meaning of the words. Why would you use it that way? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2021, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arbery-shooting-in-georgia-and-citizens-arrest-similar-shootings/853815/571 "2021-11-30T15:03:52Z")
1. he wasn’t a half mile away, a few hundred feet at most 2. if I was taking the dogs on a five mile walk, I’d certainly say I’m “right by” the house when I’m a half mile away since it means I’ll be home in just a handful of minutes. I’ve literally never encountered anyone who thinks that’s odd until just now. 3. in the context of walking all the way to 7-11 to get skittles, being outside the next building over is “right by” ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2021, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arbery-shooting-in-georgia-and-citizens-arrest-similar-shootings/853815/572 "2021-11-30T15:12:00Z")
You said you were a dozen times further than him, that’s at least half a mile. Anyway, as Zimmerman rather than Martin was the one accused of the crime, the evidence should be interpreted in the way most favourable to Zimmerman, so unless “right by” can’t be used to mean actually right by something, there’s still reason to doubt that Martin didn’t get to his father’s door. The prosecution could have asked Jeantal what Martin meant by “right by”, if they thought he didn’t mean right by, but they chose not to, so it seems they must have thought he meant what he said. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2021, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arbery-shooting-in-georgia-and-citizens-arrest-similar-shootings/853815/573 "2021-11-30T15:15:19Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > He was walking back to Zimmerman, Not only is this not in the transcript, it’s contradicted by what follows in the transcript. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2021, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arbery-shooting-in-georgia-and-citizens-arrest-similar-shootings/853815/574 "2021-11-30T15:22:42Z")
Contradicted by him finding Zimmerman when he’d previously lost him? I don’t think so. The whole argument that Martin didn’t double back and confront Zimmerman relies on ignoring the plain words of the witness and the physical evidence, as well as Zimmerman’s statement. I get why people want to ignore the latter (although they shouldn’t, one should believe people who claim to be victims of crime unless they’re proven to be lying), but the rest of the evidence is more than enough to provide reasonable doubt. Which is another issue, and one relevant to this thread. The victims in each of these cases were Arbery, Rittenhouse, and Zimmerman. They were the ones who were attacked, and it’s unfortunate Arbery wasn’t able to defend himself. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2021, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arbery-shooting-in-georgia-and-citizens-arrest-similar-shootings/853815/575 "2021-11-30T15:23:17Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Anyway, as Zimmerman rather than Martin was the one accused of the crime, the evidence should be interpreted in the way most favourable to Zimmerman ??? Juries are not instructed to interpret evidence in the most favorable way possible to the accused, so I’m not sure why we should have to. Juries are finders of fact and they can interpret the evidence however they see fit, based on their best judgement and experience. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2021, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arbery-shooting-in-georgia-and-citizens-arrest-similar-shootings/853815/576 "2021-11-30T15:26:05Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > the evidence should be interpreted in the way most favourable to Zimmerman, This is just false. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2021, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arbery-shooting-in-georgia-and-citizens-arrest-similar-shootings/853815/577 "2021-11-30T15:26:18Z")
Juries are required to acquit if any reasonable interpretation of the evidence would cast doubt in guilt. Change what I said to “the way most favourable _within reason_ to Zimmerman”. I can’t see any reasonable argument that “right by” cannot mean right by, so the scenario that Martin walked back from his fathers house to Zimmerman must be considered, and only rejected if there’s other evidence against it. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2021, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arbery-shooting-in-georgia-and-citizens-arrest-similar-shootings/853815/578 "2021-11-30T15:28:20Z")
Also, I hope none of you ever serve on a jury. I can’t imagine ever voting to convict when there’s a possibility of innocence. That’s about as immoral as anything I can think of. Do you really think it’s _impossible_ that Martin attacked Zimmerman? That, in practice, is the standard I’d expect for convicting him. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2021, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arbery-shooting-in-georgia-and-citizens-arrest-similar-shootings/853815/579 "2021-11-30T15:28:34Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > “the way most favourable _within reason_ to Zimmerman” This is still false. The juries are supposed to consider the evidence, period. ETA: And, impossible isn’t the standard. It’s reasonable doubt, at least in the US. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2021, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arbery-shooting-in-georgia-and-citizens-arrest-similar-shootings/853815/580 "2021-11-30T15:33:48Z")
One of us has served on a felony jury trial in the US. I’m going to trust my own experience over your conjecture, man. You’re simply incorrect about this. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2021, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arbery-shooting-in-georgia-and-citizens-arrest-similar-shootings/853815/581 "2021-11-30T15:36:41Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > The victims in each of these cases were Arbery, Rittenhouse, and Zimmerman. Bullshit. The victims were the ones who ended up dead. Rittenhouse and Zimmerman may have been justifiably acquitted of murder, but “not guilty” doesn’t mean “innocent,” and it sure doesn’t flip the situation and make them the victims. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2021, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arbery-shooting-in-georgia-and-citizens-arrest-similar-shootings/853815/582 "2021-11-30T15:38:58Z")
_ **Modhat** _: Just a reminder, this thread is suppose to be about **Arbery** , not Zimmerman. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2021, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arbery-shooting-in-georgia-and-citizens-arrest-similar-shootings/853815/583 "2021-11-30T15:39:17Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I can’t see any reasonable argument that “right by” cannot mean right by Right. Right by means right by. Martin’s body was indeed found right by his dad’s house. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2021, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arbery-shooting-in-georgia-and-citizens-arrest-similar-shootings/853815/584 "2021-11-30T15:41:58Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Juries are required to acquit if any reasonable interpretation of the evidence would cast doubt in guilt. O rly? As long as someone declares something “reasonable”, what follows afterwards is pre-determined? I’m surprised we need trials at all! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arbery-shooting-in-georgia-and-citizens-arrest-similar-shootings/853815.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arbery-shooting-in-georgia-and-citizens-arrest-similar-shootings/853815.md?page=30)