# Arbery Shooting in Georgia and Citizen's Arrest \[& similar shootings\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 14, 2020, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arbery-shooting-in-georgia-and-citizens-arrest-similar-shootings/853815 "2020-05-14T23:26:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2020, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arbery-shooting-in-georgia-and-citizens-arrest-similar-shootings/853815/101 "2020-05-18T23:19:16Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > [New details on this](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/05/18/us/ahmaud-arbery-surveillance-timeline/index.html): > 1.) On October 25th black man captured on video on the property. > 2.) On November 18th black man captured on video on the property. > 3.) On December 17th black man captured on video on the property. > 4.) On Feburary 11th black man captured on video on the property and eyewitnessed by Travis McMichael, who called 911. McMichael was clearly shaken in the audio of the 911 call. > 5.) On Feburary 23rd, Ahmaud Arbery is captured on video on the property by two video cameras, one eyewitness calls 911, one other eywitness is seen watching him on external video camera. > 6.) Video clips of the intruders (and there were others, including children and a white man and woman) were circulated to the neighbors by the homeowner in effort to identify the trespassers. He was also in contact with the police on several occasions. He did not want the trespassers on his property and was attempting to stop it. At some unspecified date the homeowner had $2,500 worth of fishing equipment stolen from the garage of the house. > 7.) The external camera that captured Aubrey on Feburary 23rd belonged to a neighbor who had set it up specificly to help the homeowner catch the trespassers in his under-construction home. This neighbor was the one who called 911 on Feburary 23rd. > 8.) A police officer (as I noted earlier) had contacted the elder McMichael to ask him to keep an eye on the property. One or both of the McMichaels may or may not have been among the neighbors shown the video clips in an attempt to identify the tresspassers I have a hunch they were, but if not, there was the eyewitness incident with the younger McMichael. A whole FIVE visits from black men, where nothing was stolen, over the course of five months. This “timeline” is brought to you by the exact same thought process that led Gregory McMichael to assume releasing the video where he murdered an innocent jogger would exonerate him. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2020, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arbery-shooting-in-georgia-and-citizens-arrest-similar-shootings/853815/102 "2020-05-18T23:20:32Z")
> [@Wolf333](#): > > If you intentionally point a loaded gun at someone and pull the trigger, and they die, that is not manslaughter. That would depend on how the law in Georgia. ETA: Which is this (for voluntary manslaughter): > [@](#): > > O.C.G.A. 16-5-2 (2010) > 16-5-2. Voluntary manslaughter > (a) A person commits the offense of voluntary manslaughter when he causes the death of another human being under circumstances which would otherwise be murder and if he acts solely as the result of a sudden, violent, and irresistible passion resulting from serious provocation sufficient to excite such passion in a reasonable person; however, if there should have been an interval between the provocation and the killing sufficient for the voice of reason and humanity to be heard, of which the jury in all cases shall be the judge, the killing shall be attributed to deliberate revenge and be punished as murder. > > (b) A person who commits the offense of voluntary manslaughter, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than one nor more than 20 years. So you could intentionally point a gun at someone and pull the trigger in Georgia and have it be “not murder,” even if it doesn’t meet the criteria for a justification defense. Whether or not that applies here is… not something I feel qualified to speculate on in this post. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2020, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arbery-shooting-in-georgia-and-citizens-arrest-similar-shootings/853815/103 "2020-05-18T23:27:15Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > This might have been the first time that Aubrey tresspassed in English’s home, but if so he couldn’t have picked a worse powder keg to stumble into, and it is a perfect illustration of why you should not trespass unwanted in other people’s houses, occupued or not, even if you are “just curious.” That’s the thing…it should never have been a “powder keg” to begin with. When I was a kid my friends and I would poke around homes under construction all the time. Really, it was a favorite thing since in the 70’s there wasn’t much else to do (before computers, only five TV channels, etc…we ran around outside a lot). They are really kind of interesting to check out. See the bones of a house. Neat stuff. We never caused damage or stole anything but I would hate to think I would have gotten shot for it because someone before me had stolen something and now the site was a “powder keg” and some overzealous neighborhood watch person comes at us with a gun and looking for trouble. Also, getting shot over theft at a construction site seems a bit much. Who here thinks the death penalty is the appropriate punishment for stealing from a construction site (assuming that even happened)? Who here is ok with the local neighborhood watch becoming judge, jury and executioners all in the space of a couple minutes for what _might_ have been (in their view) a theft at a construction site? Raise your hand and be counted. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2020, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arbery-shooting-in-georgia-and-citizens-arrest-similar-shootings/853815/104 "2020-05-19T01:17:52Z")
UltraVires, IIRC, if you have been practicing for five years in WV, you could join the GA defence teem under reciprocity. That would give you a chance to contribute your knowledge, experience and critical opinion to the defence team. ---
**Author:** ![Falchion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Falchion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falchion)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2020, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arbery-shooting-in-georgia-and-citizens-arrest-similar-shootings/853815/105 "2020-05-19T11:08:18Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Rather, it seems to me that if “the offense” was nonexistent, “the offense” cannot possibly be a felony. Citizen’s arrest based on probable cause when no felony was committed is not good law. Upon further reflection, the answer seems less clear. _Adams v. Carlisle_ (Ga. Ct. App. 2006) includes the following discussion: > [@](#): > > For the purpose of assessing probable cause, Evans and Grayson’s involvement in the arrest of the plaintiffs can be analogized to a citizen’s arrest. At common law, when a felony actually had been committed, a private person was authorized to arrest the person whom he reasonably believed committed the felony, and could arrest for a misdemeanor if it was committed in his presence and involved a breach of the peace.[20] Nonetheless, the private person’s authority to arrest was more limited than an officer’s.[21] “I**f called upon to justify his act, some courts [found] that [the private person] must show that the felony had actually been committed, and that he had reasonable grounds for believing the person arrested to be guilty**; while other courts have gone further, and held that he must show that the person arrested was actually guilty.”[22] In other words, the private citizen who made an arrest was strictly liable for the arrestee’s damages if the arrestee was innocent.[23] Therefore, the distinction between the privileges afforded a police officer as opposed to a citizen in this regard pertained to the personal liability in the event of a false arrest.[24] The officer could not be sued personally if it were later determined, as in this case, that there had been in actuality no probable cause. > > In view of the wide divergence between the two special concurrences, we leave it to the commentators to decide whether Georgia law has approached, or should approach, probable cause differently when analyzing whether an officer had probable cause to interfere with a subject’s liberty, or whether a citizen had the right to remain secure in his home and papers, or whether an officer should be sued after making a good faith arrest based on apparent probable cause, or whether one citizen can vindicate his rights against another citizen after an unjust arrest. In any event, based on Georgia case law, it is for a jury to decide in the present instance whether Evans, LGC, Grayson, and CPG may be liable. (emphasis added) _Adams_cites to a 1915 decision (that isn’t available on Google Scholar). But it suggests to me that the answer isn’t clear or well-established and it’s entirely possible that an offense must, in fact, have been committed (and you only need probable cause that the person who’ve arrested did it). ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2020, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arbery-shooting-in-georgia-and-citizens-arrest-similar-shootings/853815/106 "2020-05-19T11:59:30Z")
Thank you, Falchion. I appreciate your research here. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2020, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arbery-shooting-in-georgia-and-citizens-arrest-similar-shootings/853815/107 "2020-05-19T12:24:15Z")
> [@Falchion](#): > > Upon further reflection, the answer seems less clear. _Adams v. Carlisle_ (Ga. Ct. App. 2006) includes the following discussion: > > (emphasis added) > _Adams_cites to a 1915 decision (that isn’t available on Google Scholar). But it suggests to me that the answer isn’t clear or well-established and it’s entirely possible that an offense must, in fact, have been committed (and you only need probable cause that the person who’ve arrested did it). Based on that, it seems that a citizen’s arrest is a really risky thing to do, unless you actually saw the person you’re arresting commit some felony. You’re personally liable for any damages if it turns out after the fact that you’re wrong. Thanks for this and your correction to me about probable cause. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2020, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arbery-shooting-in-georgia-and-citizens-arrest-similar-shootings/853815/108 "2020-05-19T15:51:30Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > **UltraVires** , as for your continued questions of “What if it was a legal arrest?”, you might as well ask “What if they didn’t actually shoot him and just invited him in for tea and cookies?”. Neither one of those is what happened, and what we should concern ourselves with is what actually did happen. IANAL, but I’ve done some reading on citizen’s arrest, and, other than Texas, you may only use non-deadly force to citizen’s arrest someone. So, grappling with them, pushing them to the ground, stuff like that may be acceptable. Starting off with the threat of deadly force, even if they had just witnessed a felony and the perpetrator was escaping, would be illegal, if I am reading things right. The only time deadly force would be allowed (outside of Texas) would be if they were posing a direct and continuing threat to the safety of yourself or others. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2020, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arbery-shooting-in-georgia-and-citizens-arrest-similar-shootings/853815/109 "2020-05-19T15:56:14Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Thank you, Falchion. I appreciate your research here. +1. It’s good to see something like relevant case law cited to help clarify certain ambiguities in the law. That’s the sort of thing I would expect an actual attorney to do, one worth his or her salt, so hopefully the prosecutor in the Arbury case is well-versed in the relevant case law and looking for a way to use it as a hammer, rather than trying to look for ways to slip ambiguity in and let these people off. It seems the only question, going off that case law, is if Arbury’s entering the unoccupied construction area (trespassing at worse, I would think) constitutes a “breach of the peace” and occurred in the McMichael’s presence. And regardless of whether what the McMichaels did is ACTUALLY legal, I think it damn well ought to be illegal. At worst, the man committed a non-violent misdemeanor, and they chased him down in a manner consistent with an old-school lynching and provoked a deadly confrontation against an unarmed man. Fleeing a violent felony is one thing, maybe (frankly, I still wouldn’t be too fond of bringing about a deadly confrontation if it could be avoided), but not what they actually had reason to believe he did. ETA: > [@k9bfriender](#): > > IANAL, but I’ve done some reading on citizen’s arrest, and, other than Texas, you may only use non-deadly force to citizen’s arrest someone. > > So, grappling with them, pushing them to the ground, stuff like that may be acceptable. Starting off with the threat of deadly force, even if they had just witnessed a felony and the perpetrator was escaping, would be illegal, if I am reading things right. > > The only time deadly force would be allowed (outside of Texas) would be if they were posing a direct and continuing threat to the safety of yourself or others. I looked at Georgia’s self-defense statute, and it wasn’t very clear. I mean, it’s clear enough that the instigator of a violent act is the one who gets lawfully defended against, but then it’s not clear if attempting to initiate a “lawful” (and that’s if we assume for the sake of argument only) citizen’s arrest is allowed to initiate any level of violence or contact to effect the arrest. And a show of force (like showing up with shotguns and a pickup) might just count as a kind of force on its own (or rather, I haven’t ruled it out). ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2020, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arbery-shooting-in-georgia-and-citizens-arrest-similar-shootings/853815/110 "2020-05-19T16:13:16Z")
And here’s the post-ETA addition with what I believe is the only applicable portion of the code for self-defense and use of force in Georgia. What’s odd is that citizen’s arrest doesn’t even seem to get a passing mention, and I am left to hesitantly conclude that it must somehow fit within the proper self-defense or use of force statute in Georgia. And the wording does confirm that “threat of force” is considered a kind of force of its own, and it would certainly seem to me that the McMichaels did just that the way they approached, pursued, and obstructed Arbury, which to me means, unless there is some part of the law that I missed that allows for force to apprehend a non-violent misdemeanor suspect, they were the initiators (and so not defending themselves), even if, as the video leaves some room for interpretation, Arbury charged one of the McMichaels after they obstructed his path. They were (as I posit) unlawfully exercising the threat of force, and he was attempting to use necessary force to extricate himself from that situation (he obviously couldn’t run, because they’d already chased him down, passed him, and obstructed his path at least once in the pickup). > [@](#): > > 2010 Georgia Code > TITLE 16 - CRIMES AND OFFENSES > CHAPTER 3 - DEFENSES TO CRIMINAL PROSECUTIONS > ARTICLE 2 - JUSTIFICATION AND EXCUSE > § 16-3-21 - Use of force in defense of self or others; evidence of belief that force was necessary in murder or manslaughter prosecution > O.C.G.A. 16-3-21 (2010) > 16-3-21. Use of force in defense of self or others; evidence of belief that force was necessary in murder or manslaughter prosecution > (a) A person is justified in threatening or using force against another when and to the extent that he or she reasonably believes that such threat or force is necessary to defend himself or herself or a third person against such other’s imminent use of unlawful force; however, except as provided in Code Section 16-3-23, a person is justified in using force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm only if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent death or great bodily injury to himself or herself or a third person or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony. > > (b) A person is not justified in using force under the circumstances specified in subsection (a) of this Code section if he: > > (1) Initially provokes the use of force against himself with the intent to use such force as an excuse to inflict bodily harm upon the assailant; > > (2) Is attempting to commit, committing, or fleeing after the commission or attempted commission of a felony; or > > (3) Was the aggressor or was engaged in a combat by agreement unless he withdraws from the encounter and effectively communicates to such other person his intent to do so and the other, notwithstanding, continues or threatens to continue the use of unlawful force. > > (c) Any rule, regulation, or policy of any agency of the state or any ordinance, resolution, rule, regulation, or policy of any county, municipality, or other political subdivision of the state which is in conflict with this Code section shall be null, void, and of no force and effect. > > (d) In a prosecution for murder or manslaughter, if a defendant raises as a defense a justification provided by subsection (a) of this Code section, the defendant, in order to establish the defendant’s reasonable belief that the use of force or deadly force was immediately necessary, may be permitted to offer: > > (1) Relevant evidence that the defendant had been the victim of acts of family violence or child abuse committed by the deceased, as such acts are described in Code Sections 19-13-1 and 19-15-1, respectively; and > > (2) Relevant expert testimony regarding the condition of the mind of the defendant at the time of the offense, including those relevant facts and circumstances relating to the family violence or child abuse that are the bases of the expert’s opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2020, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arbery-shooting-in-georgia-and-citizens-arrest-similar-shootings/853815/111 "2020-05-19T16:17:41Z")
> [@Falchion](#): > > _Adams v. Carlisle_ (Ga. Ct. App. 2006) includes the following discussion: > (emphasis added) > > > [@](#): > > > > …Nonetheless, the private person’s authority to arrest was more limited than an officer’s.[21] “If called upon to justify his act, some courts [found] that [the private person] must show that the felony had actually been committed, and that he had reasonable grounds for believing the person arrested to be guilty; while other courts have gone further, and held that he must show that the person arrested was actually guilty.”[22] In other words, the private citizen who made an arrest was strictly liable for the arrestee’s damages if the arrestee was innocent.[23] Therefore, the distinction between the privileges afforded a police officer as opposed to a citizen in this regard pertained to the personal liability in the event of a false arrest. > [@RitterSport](#): > > Based on that, it seems that a citizen’s arrest is a really risky thing to do, unless you actually saw the person you’re arresting commit some felony. You’re personally liable for any damages if it turns out after the fact that you’re wrong. It seems to me perfectly appropriate that there should not only be reasonable grounds for suspicion, but that the suspect must actually be guilty for a “citizen arrestor” to evade liability (i.e. strict liability). In a police arrest, an innocent suspect is likely to submit peacefully, since (setting aside police corruption) the suspect knows that his physical safety is not in jeopardy, and that he has clearly defined rights, and that due process should exonerate him. But a citizen’s arrest places the rights of two citizens in opposition. It creates far greater potential for escalating violence than a police arrest. And an innocent suspect will surely be far more likely to resist and escalate the confrontation, since he will know of know of justifiable reason why somebody would be attempting to arrest him, and be more likely to assume that the people attempting to detain him are themselves criminals with ill intent. Given the notorious unreliability of eyewitness testimony and the potential for error and escalating violence, we should require absolute certainty of a suspect’s guilt for a citizen’s arrest. We can’t have untrained civilians “investigating” crimes outside of the immediate physical and temporal proximity of the crime, we can’t have untrained civilians making subjective judgments about “likely” suspects. The rights of innocent citizens must surely be paramount. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2020, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arbery-shooting-in-georgia-and-citizens-arrest-similar-shootings/853815/112 "2020-05-19T16:24:31Z")
Those are excellent points, Reimann. I agree that citizen’s arrest should be an extremely rare event for cut-and-dried cases, and the arrestor should be taking a significant legal risk if they’re wrong. To set it up otherwise is to encourage vigilantism. Requiring absolute knowledge of a crime’s commission seems like a pretty basic step toward setting the citizen’s arrest standard high. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2020, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arbery-shooting-in-georgia-and-citizens-arrest-similar-shootings/853815/113 "2020-05-19T16:32:14Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Thank you, Falchion. I appreciate your research here. Yup, seconded - thanks. ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2020, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arbery-shooting-in-georgia-and-citizens-arrest-similar-shootings/853815/114 "2020-05-19T16:39:09Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > You’re simply wrong. The section of the document I pulled that from is about use of firearm, and it defines both active and passive use. However, all use of a firearm–including passive use–may only be done under certain circumstances. I quoted the most relevant one. Do you think that document lists a different circumstance under which passive use may occur? Article 34 Paragraph 3 - Passive use of a firearm refers to demonstration of a firearm by a police officer to achieve a legitimate objective. Maybe I’m missing it but where are the circumstances listed where passive use of a firearm may be used? The only limitations that I see are that it must be for a legitimate objective. Effecting an arrest, preventing a crime or flight are among such objectives. In my state displaying a firearm is considered “constructive authority” and there is no statewide policy that delineates the circumstances when a firearm may be displayed or pointed. I don’t see any limitations/requirements in the Georgia law either but I’d be happy to change my view if you can point me in the right direction. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2020, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arbery-shooting-in-georgia-and-citizens-arrest-similar-shootings/853815/115 "2020-05-19T16:43:55Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > This “timeline” is brought to you by the exact same thought process that led Gregory McMichael to assume releasing the video where he murdered an innocent jogger would exonerate him. Aside from being a mindboggling “wtf was he thinking” moment… It seems to me that the fact that he released the video thinking it would _exonerate_ him could be introduced at trial as an incredibly damning piece of evidence about his state of mind, about what he was planning when he pursued Arbery and initiated a violent confrontation, about how he anticipated it would play out and what he thought he could get away with. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2020, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arbery-shooting-in-georgia-and-citizens-arrest-similar-shootings/853815/116 "2020-05-19T16:49:18Z")
> [@MikeF](#): > > Article 34 Paragraph 3 - Passive use of a firearm refers to demonstration of a firearm by a police officer to achieve a legitimate objective. > > Maybe I’m missing it but where are the circumstances listed where passive use of a firearm may be used? The only limitations that I see are that it must be for a legitimate objective. Effecting an arrest, preventing a crime or flight are among such objectives. In my state displaying a firearm is considered “constructive authority” and there is no statewide policy that delineates the circumstances when a firearm may be displayed or pointed. I don’t see any limitations/requirements in the Georgia law either but I’d be happy to change my view if you can point me in the right direction. This is from the Georgia code covering simple assault. I would argue that what the McMichaels did, pursuing Arbury and then obstructing his path while visibly armed, constituted simple assault at a minimum: > [@](#): > > 2010 Georgia Code > TITLE 16 - CRIMES AND OFFENSES > CHAPTER 5 - CRIMES AGAINST THE PERSON > ARTICLE 2 - ASSAULT AND BATTERY > § 16-5-20 - Simple assault > O.C.G.A. 16-5-20 (2010) > 16-5-20. Simple assault > > (a) A person commits the offense of simple assault when he or she either: > > (1) Attempts to commit a violent injury to the person of another; or > > (2) Commits an act which places another in reasonable apprehension of immediately receiving a violent injury. Specifically, I think Arbury would have been “in reasonable apprehension of immediately receiving a violent injury,” being confronted as he was, unarmed and on foot, by armed men in a pickup who had pursued and blocked him. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2020, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arbery-shooting-in-georgia-and-citizens-arrest-similar-shootings/853815/117 "2020-05-19T17:07:55Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > I looked at Georgia’s self-defense statute, and it wasn’t very clear. I mean, it’s clear enough that the instigator of a violent act is the one who gets lawfully defended against, but then it’s not clear if attempting to initiate a “lawful” (and that’s if we assume for the sake of argument only) citizen’s arrest is allowed to initiate any level of violence or contact to effect the arrest. And a show of force (like showing up with shotguns and a pickup) might just count as a kind of force on its own (or rather, I haven’t ruled it out). The problem with a citizen’s arrest is it can look like an assault to the person who is being “arrested.” Unless the crime was committed in front of the arresting citizen and they both know it then what would you think if someone came out of nowhere, pointed a gun at you and yelled, “Citizen’s arrest! Hands-up!” I would think I was being assaulted and would definitely consider means of defending myself, up to and including lethal means. Granted they have the drop on me so not good for me but it remains that, given a chance, I will defend myself. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2020, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arbery-shooting-in-georgia-and-citizens-arrest-similar-shootings/853815/118 "2020-05-19T17:16:04Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > The problem with a citizen’s arrest is it can look like an assault to the person who is being “arrested.” Unless the crime was committed in front of the arresting citizen and they both know it then what would you think if someone came out of nowhere, pointed a gun at you and yelled, “Citizen’s arrest! Hands-up!” > > I would think I was being assaulted and would definitely consider means of defending myself, up to and including lethal means. Granted they have the drop on me so not good for me but it remains that, given a chance, I will defend myself. Yup, that’s why I think the standard must be absolute certainty of the suspect’s guilt, which will usually imply immediate proximity in time and space to the crime, which will also imply that a guilty suspect understands that someone trying to detain them is not themselves a criminal with ill intent, but has good reason. Given the potential for escalating violence in a citizen’s arrest, it’s not just the reasonableness of the arrestor’s suspicions that matters, it’s the likely state of mind of the person being arrested. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2020, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arbery-shooting-in-georgia-and-citizens-arrest-similar-shootings/853815/119 "2020-05-19T17:58:44Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Yup, that’s why I think the standard must be absolute certainty of the suspect’s guilt, which will usually imply immediate proximity in time and space to the crime, which will also imply that a guilty suspect understands that someone trying to detain them is not themselves a criminal with ill intent, but has good reason. Given the potential for escalating violence in a citizen’s arrest, it’s not just the reasonableness of the arrestor’s suspicions that matters, it’s the likely state of mind of the person being arrested. Not to mention the “state of mind” of the arrestors, and the “reasonableness” of the victim. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2020, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arbery-shooting-in-georgia-and-citizens-arrest-similar-shootings/853815/120 "2020-05-19T18:02:23Z")
> [@MikeF](#): > > Article 34 Paragraph 3 - Passive use of a firearm refers to demonstration of a firearm by a police officer to achieve a legitimate objective. > > Maybe I’m missing it but where are the circumstances listed where passive use of a firearm may be used? The only limitations that I see are that it must be for a legitimate objective. Effecting an arrest, preventing a crime or flight are among such objectives. In my state displaying a firearm is considered “constructive authority” and there is no statewide policy that delineates the circumstances when a firearm may be displayed or pointed. I don’t see any limitations/requirements in the Georgia law either but I’d be happy to change my view if you can point me in the right direction. Further down it defines when a firearm may be used. Are you interpreting that as defining when a firearm may be used **actively**? If so, why are you interpreting it in that way? If not, why are you not seeing that section as defining circumstances where passive use is appropriate? I suspect you’ve inadvertently considered that section as being only about active use. But a passive use is also a use. Again, [here’s what it says](https://matsne.gov.ge/en/document/download/2047533/1/en/pdf): > [@](#): > > A police officer may use a firearm as a last resort: > … > based on prior information, to prevent the escape of a person who has been detained for having committed a violent act or extremely grievous crime; If you can find, in that section, any other way that an officer may use a firearm (passively or actively) that apply to this situation, I’d be interested in seeing them. I read that section and didn’t find anything else that looked applicable. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arbery-shooting-in-georgia-and-citizens-arrest-similar-shootings/853815.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arbery-shooting-in-georgia-and-citizens-arrest-similar-shootings/853815.md?page=7)