It’s a classic mentality. People like this don’t see themselves as the bad guy. It’s not their fault they shot you. It’s your fault because you didn’t do what you were supposed to do; you made them shoot you.
The owner of the property (who was not present at the time) has said that he does not consider Arbury’s presence on his property to have been trespassing and has offered his condolences to Arbury’s family. He also wanted to make it clear that he is not associated in any way with the shooters.
I’ve heard that the initial police reports make it pretty clear that the cameraman was more than just a passive witness. I believe that it was the victim’s family members making the claim However, there were no cites. Has anyone here seen those initial reports or heard what they purportedly say?
NM
The AP News article quoted by Snowboarder Bo says, “In the Glynn County police incident report on the shooting, Gregory McMichael told an officer that at one point Arbery ‘began running back the direction from which he came and “Roddy” attempted to block him which was unsuccessful.’ It’s the only mention in the police report of any potential involvement by Bryan.”
Question: If Arbery was shot 3 times I would question whether one or more shots came from the father on the truck bed.
I can’t see how you can shoot someone with a shotgun 3 times at close quarters, during a struggle. How does he aim? In the vidoe I think I can see the father aiming though.
They don’t consider it trespassing or they don’t believe he stole anything from them and nothing was missing? I believe I have seen the latter claim, but don’t recall the former being made. Can you point me to something?
Regardless, I can imagine the property owner would want to stay well clear of anything that could look like support for the killers in this case, whatever their attitudes about people wondering into the unfinished home might have been like prior to. Owner’s feelings or not, trespassing or not, I don’t think the McMichaels et al were justified in their actions and in a just society, they would get substantial prison sentences for their actions. If they are allowed to go free after a trial because of some ambiguity or allowance in the law, then there is a problem with the law.
In fact, I’d say there’s a problem with citizens arrest and “self-defense” laws in Georgia (and other states) in general, regardless of how this trial goes. The idea that anyone could ever get it into their head that going after a man on foot with a shotgun and a pickup truck and then bringing about a violent confrontation over what was, at worst, a minor act of trespassing, and have even the barest argument towards justification is troubling to say the least. The fact that it took three prosecutors passing the case off like a hot potato, plus a very tone deaf video release on behalf of the perpetrators, to get us to what should have been the obvious conclusion that these men ought to be arrested is utterly astounding to me.
It should not be astonishing if you consider that there is a decently large population (especially in the rural south) who believe that lynching a black man to “teach others a lesson” is a good idea.
Sounds like they were attacked by a severe case of proportionality. Possibly even humanity.
Maybe things have changed but, as I mentioned earlier, my friends and I would regularly wander around home construction sites when I was growing up. The builders took zero measure to protect the property from people wandering on.
Did this place have a fence or even signs to keep people out? Or is it like most homes under constructions…completely open to anyone to wander through?
My memory is there was nothing to steal anyway short of dismantling the structure which would be a major effort to even attempt.
Also, as has been mentioned, the guys who shot Arbury had no clue he had even visited that site.
All right, since this thread has died down a bit I would like to take this opportunity to ask a hypothetical:
If I am present during a situation like this and in possession of a legally owned firearm can I pull my gun out and defend Arbury? I’m not 100% sure what I mean by “defend” here so I will ask the question in a few parts.
If I see 3 (white) guys in pickups harassing and attempting to corral a (black) guy jogging through the neighborhood can I pull out my gun and demand that they stop? At what point can I legally start shooting?
If I see 2 (white) guys with guns about to gun down a (black) guy jogging through the neighborhood can I legally shoot them first? Should I wait to start shooting until after they start shooting?
If I see 2 (white) guys shoot and kill a (black) guy jogging through the neighborhood while I am standing there with my gun in my hand, can I legally shoot them? In this situation I would assume I would need to fear for my life to make this legally justified. And I assure you, as a black man in America, if I just saw 2 rednecks gun down a brotha for no discernable reason I would most definitely be afraid for my life.
I don’t ever want to be in a situation like this but I have often wondered about what I legally could do…
The YouTube channel LegalEagle has just posted a video looking at the Abery shooting.
While it is certainly not the final word on this it does do a good job of laying out the facts as they are known (so far) and pointing out some of the legal issues surrounding this case.
WARNING: The video does show the clip of the altercation and Arbery getting shot and killed.
According to the video I linked in my last post “self defense” can be used, according to Georgia law, when:
So yes, you can use force to “prevent death or great bodily injury” to someone else (or yourself) in Georgia.
Of course, you will probably need to convince a DA and possibly a court that you acted appropriately in the situation. That may be hard to do (e.g. when did you know what was happening was no longer a minor scuffle and was life threatening…how did you know…how did you know who needed to be shot…etc.?).
Most times just call the police.
Wrong Georgia.
That is the most embarrassing thing ever. My deep apologies.
I think it’s sort of amusing and not in a horrible “YER AN IDJIT!” kinda way. There was something just a little off with that document… the phrasing and word choice seemed not quite right. But I knew for sure it didn’t refer to the State of Georgia, U.S.A when I read Article 53:
Six weeks paid vacation to start, seven weeks after five years experience, and eight weeks after ten years on the job!!!
No way you’re ever gonna see that anywhere in the Greatest Country on Earth. Not in Georgia, not in Alaska, not Vermont or California, not nowhere.
Yeah, even with the use of force guidelines, I was pleasantly surprised with how reasonable they sounded. That should’ve clued me in.
I’ve done a little more digging this morning, looking for something for the State of Georgia, and have been unsuccessful. Either the English-language version of the Nation of Georgia’s police procedural manner has better search-engine-optimization, or else the State of Georgia doesn’t have a statewide, publicly-available set of procedures for cops. The Georgia localities I could find are super vague in their use-of-force guidelines, which is super fucked up.
If that is true, then you’re doing pretty damn well at life. 
I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that much of it is covered by local regulations and based on common law. There was, IIRC, a Supreme Court case some time in the nebulous past (but inside the last century, definitely) on use of force by police at least in situations involving a fleeing suspect not wanted for a violent felony (or something like that).
I believe the case was ostensibly in whether or not said officer could be sued, though… maybe in Tennessee? Hmmm…
ETA: Tennessee v. Garner
But, again, that’s specific to police, and technically I guess Arbery wasn’t fleeing when they put themselves in his path, provoked a physical altercation, and shot him. Still…
The judge conducted a preliminary hearing (a pre-trial hearing to determine if there is enough evidence to take a case to trial) and ruled that, yes, there is enough evidence for a trial. Preliminary hearings, by and large, have very low thresholds, so it’s not really a huge deal, but some facts that I did not know came out.
One of the co-defendants (Bryan, the videographer) told a Georgia Bureau of Investigation officer that the shooter used the n-word shortly after killing Arbery, and had a toolbox with the confederate flag on it. There is also some usage of the n-word on the killers’ social media account, and the killer had actually messaged someone before the shooting that it would be better if someone had “blown that N-word’s head off” (no evidence which person he was referring to). Anyone shocked by these revelations probably hasn’t been paying much attention.
More importantly to the actual case, apparently Bryan had hit Arbery with the truck when he tried to escape from them. Bryan’s statements indicated that Arbery had attempted to flee from the three in their trucks after they had tried to pen him in with their vehicles. Bryan then hit Arbery with the truck. Arbery apparently went so far to have " running down into the ditch in an attempt to avoid his [Bryan’s] truck."
In addition, the killer himself indicated he did not have “immediate knowledge” that Arbery committed a crime. On bodycam footage after the killing, the killer says something along the lines that he just had a gut feeling the victim committed a crime, that it was his instinct.
Again, it was a preliminary hearing, so the evidence is clearly slanted to the prosecution’s view and the defendants haven’t had a chance to lie … tell their side of the story. But the testimony of the investigator at the preliminary hearing adds some new information I didn’t know about. As the investigator testified:
“I believe Mr. Arbery was being pursued, and he ran till he couldn’t run anymore, and it was turn his back to a man with a shotgun or fight with his bare hands against the man with the shotgun. He chose to fight,” he said. “I believe Mr. Arbery’s decision was to just try to get away, and when he felt like he could not escape he chose to fight.”