# Arcanum
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arcanum/767454
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [October 2, 2016, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arcanum/767454 "2016-10-02T09:35:04Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@hotflungwok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hotflungwok)
#### Post date: [October 3, 2016, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arcanum/767454/21 "2016-10-03T02:40:57Z")
So, what, you posted some slightly related youtube videos and now everyone is supposed to believe what exactly? I watched at least some of all of them, and I can’t even figure out what they’re supposed to have in common, much less what they’re supposed to be demonstrating. It certainly isn’t that frequency holds everything together.
Scientists have not found that when we think a frequency is created and spreads from person to person, what studies have found this? When a person talks, then a sound is created, and one of the qualities of that sound is frequency, and that can spread from mouth to ear, but a claim that thoughts make sound is going to need more than just the claim.
Seriously, cymatics? Vibrations can move matter, therefore life! Wrong. There really isn’t anything else I feel the need to say about this, kids have been putting stuff on speakers and playing music to watch it jump around for years and never once claimed they made new life.
Nope, I do not feel like I need to wake up, I feel like I just encountered yet another group of silly claims with nothing but random youtube videos to back them. When come back bring evidence.
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### Author:  [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)
#### Post date: [October 3, 2016, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arcanum/767454/22 "2016-10-03T02:47:51Z")
> [@Kielmic](#):
>
> Lol people like you make me laugh, you reject something you know nothing about yet refuse to investigate it.
You have to give people a reason why they should investigate your claims. A summary of what those claims are would be a good first step.
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### Author:  [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)
#### Post date: [October 3, 2016, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arcanum/767454/23 "2016-10-03T06:55:19Z")
> [@Kielmic](#):
>
> Lol people like you make me laugh, you reject something you know nothing about yet refuse to investigate it.
You people make me laugh. You expect us to accept something, yet you refuse to describe it.
I’m not gonna sit through 7 videos of whatever the hell they are, just to try to divine what your thesis might be, only to likely be told by you later that I haven’t grasped it at all, and How Could I Be So Closed-Minded.
If your idea has merit, it should be able to be described in summary.
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### Author:  [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)
#### Post date: [October 3, 2016, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arcanum/767454/24 "2016-10-03T07:00:28Z")
> [@Kielmic](#):
>
> Something else… It’s the idea that sound waves hold together particals causing matter to take shape.
And yet, nothing much changes when I play music (which is composed of sound waves at various frequencies) from any device. If sound waves were holding matter together, interference from other, louder sound waves ought to mess things up. My sofa should melt, or evaporate, for example.
This has never happened, in fact, sound has to be really quite loud to have any affect on matter - unless the matter happens to be formed in the shape of a good resonator (like a bell or a wineglass) - but most things are poor resonators.
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### Author:  [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)
#### Post date: [October 3, 2016, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arcanum/767454/25 "2016-10-03T07:27:12Z")
> [@Quimby](#):
>
> So I’m guessing this isn’t about the game that had Steampunk Elves and Dwarves.
I came in here hoping that would be the topic (how awesome was that game? I wish someone would revisit it) and instead find myself sadly disappointed.
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### Author:  [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)
#### Post date: [October 3, 2016, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arcanum/767454/26 "2016-10-03T14:35:36Z")
> [@Kielmic](#):
>
> Well, most alchemists I’ve talked to flirted with science at one point. But there’s someone named gregg braden who’s leading the charge.
Greg Braden is a loon. But I suppose that’s what passes as science to the credulous.
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### Author:  [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)
#### Post date: [October 3, 2016, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arcanum/767454/27 "2016-10-03T16:22:42Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#):
>
> What’s the frequency, **Kielmic**?
\
I think this is a debate. How great it is can be discussed. Moving it to GD.
Tom, you’re welcome.
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### Author:  [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)
#### Post date: [October 3, 2016, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arcanum/767454/28 "2016-10-03T16:25:49Z")
Oh, you’re _mean_. 😃
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### Author:  [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)
#### Post date: [October 3, 2016, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arcanum/767454/29 "2016-10-03T17:16:09Z")
> [@Kielmic](#):
>
> Lol people like you make me laugh, you reject something you know nothing about yet refuse to investigate it.
Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magic Obscura is a more interesting, socially and scientifically relevant piece of work than those you suggest.
When will you be playing the game? It’s really a very good one. I recommend it.
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### Author:  [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)
#### Post date: [October 3, 2016, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arcanum/767454/30 "2016-10-03T18:00:42Z")
> [@Quimby](#):
>
> So I’m guessing this isn’t about the game that had Steampunk Elves and Dwarves.
Shadowrun is awesome. They need to make a movie.
What’s this debate about?
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### Author:  [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)
#### Post date: [October 3, 2016, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arcanum/767454/31 "2016-10-03T18:20:47Z")
> [@Kielmic](#):
>
> Something else… It’s the idea that sound waves hold together particals causing matter to take shape.
How does matter retain its shape in a vacuum, where sound waves cannot exist?
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [October 3, 2016, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arcanum/767454/32 "2016-10-03T18:50:46Z")
> [@Kielmic](#):
>
> The free masons have been using lower frequencies to induce fear in the people by utilizing media.
And that hurts!
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### Author:  [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)
#### Post date: [October 3, 2016, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arcanum/767454/33 "2016-10-03T19:06:03Z")
> [@](#):
>
> [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JU1W...xtmk16BAJGciTI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JU1W...xtmk16BAJGciTI)
>
> [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ccU...JGciTI&index=2](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ccU...JGciTI&index=2)
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MmWeZHsQzs
A quick glance through these seems to indicate that, beyond all being gibberish, they aren’t really related. The first one, Sexual Alchemy † The Great Arcanum Revealed † Gnostic Teachings has this summary:
> [@](#):
>
> Hidden behind every major religion and tradition hides a secret, a universal truth. This universal truth is known as the Great Arcanum. Throughout history it has been completely forbidden to reveal the secrets of this mystery to the public, and the reason for this is because it is completely impossible to convey. This secret is not an idea, but an experience one encounters when making a direct connection to the Creator of the universe. In our society today, if we were to reveal this experience to the average person they would most likely look at us as if we were totally insane and would probably try to have us committed right away.
The next one, 7 Stages of Spiritual Alchemy has this:
> [@](#):
>
> An insight into the true nature of the principles of alchemy and the teachings of Hermes Trismegistus (also known as Thoth, Mercury, or Hermes in different cultures). This was known as the wisdom of the secret schools of ancient times. Alchemy is not all about transforming things into gold, but more of a understanding of the true nature of things and how to manipulate their energies.
The next 3 are a series, Cymatics - Bringing Matter To Life With Sound:
> [@](#):
>
> These original films of Cymatics experiments were made in the 1960’s by Swiss scientist, Dr. Hans Jenny.
Here’s the wiki on [Dr. Hans](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Jenny_(cymatics)). [Wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cymatics) on Cymatics.
This is just to catch everyone up who isn’t willing to watch random woo based whacky YouTube video and OPs who just give a bunch of links and a cryptic paragraph without bothering to set out any sort of argument besides ‘it’s in the videos’ type horseshit, then get all bent when folks point and laugh. Now at least everyone knows more about WHY to point and laugh. 😛
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### Author:  [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)
#### Post date: [October 3, 2016, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arcanum/767454/34 "2016-10-03T19:06:16Z")
> [@Kielmic](#):
>
> It’s my central thesis that vibrations are the structure of consciousness… That’s why music and tones effects us…
Lots of things affect us, most with no vibrations. Paintings. Books. Cuisine. Sex. Unless you are going to be pedantic about vibrations that encompass the entire electromagnetic spectrum, lots of things that affect us are not vibrational.
Your premise is flawed.
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### Author:  [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)
#### Post date: [October 3, 2016, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arcanum/767454/35 "2016-10-03T19:36:35Z")
> [@Mangetout](#):
>
> How does matter retain its shape in a vacuum, where sound waves cannot exist?
In Space, no one.
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### Author:  [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)
#### Post date: [October 3, 2016, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arcanum/767454/36 "2016-10-03T19:55:01Z")
> [@silenus](#):
>
> In Space, no one.
…can hear you scream because without sound your body will fly apart at ludicrous speed (which is much faster than either ridiculous or the far slower light speeds)…
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### Author:  [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)
#### Post date: [October 3, 2016, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arcanum/767454/37 "2016-10-03T19:57:03Z")
Thanks for making that sacrifice for us, **XT**. You’re either very noble or very bored. Or perhaps both.
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### Author:  [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)
#### Post date: [October 3, 2016, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arcanum/767454/38 "2016-10-03T20:33:24Z")
> [@XT](#):
>
> Here’s the wiki on [Dr. Hans](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Jenny_(cymatics)). [Wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cymatics) on Cymatics.
From that wiki article;
Cymatics in Healing
The New Age movement has been quick to claim that cymatics has special healing properties.
It has been posited that sound waves generating particular patterns may stimulate healing, although this does not appear to be related to cymatics at all- rather it is a function of acoustics.[5] However, other than select articles on the subject of low-amplitude high-frequency sound in bone fracture healing,[6] there is no medical evidence of this phenomenon.
Due to the spurious claims by New Age healers, cymatics is very much regarded as pseudoscience by the scientific community at large, who see the phenomenon as showing nothing more than the information displayed on an oscilloscope.
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### Author:  [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)
#### Post date: [October 3, 2016, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arcanum/767454/39 "2016-10-03T20:36:18Z")
> [@XT](#):
>
> This is just to catch everyone up who isn’t willing to watch random woo based whacky YouTube video and OPs who just give a bunch of links and a cryptic paragraph without bothering to set out any sort of argument besides ‘it’s in the videos’ type horseshit, then get all bent when folks point and laugh. Now at least everyone knows more about WHY to point and laugh. 😛
Thank you. Looks like it wasn’t really wake up time. after all.
---
### Author:  [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)
#### Post date: [October 3, 2016, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arcanum/767454/40 "2016-10-03T20:46:29Z")
> [@Kielmic](#):
>
> Well, most alchemists I’ve talked to flirted with science at one point. But there’s someone named gregg braden who’s leading the charge.
The same Gregg Braden who said the world was going to end in 2012 because of the Maya calendar? That Gregg Braden?
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