# Archaeology/Anthropology Cliches **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 4, 2017, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaeology-anthropology-cliches/792776 "2017-08-04T14:58:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2017, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaeology-anthropology-cliches/792776/41 "2017-08-06T17:24:20Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > 'Cuz some of those cavemen really could paint! Entirely from memory, too, since there’s no dragging a horse a block into a cave. And, it’s always men who did the painting! ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2017, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaeology-anthropology-cliches/792776/42 "2017-08-06T17:29:43Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > And, it’s always men who did the painting! “Persons of Grotto.” ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2017, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaeology-anthropology-cliches/792776/43 "2017-08-06T17:46:49Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > And, it’s always men who did the painting! Yep. I used the phrase “prehistoric person” for that very reason. (I realize you weren’t referring to me.) ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaeology-anthropology-cliches/792776/44 "2017-08-07T01:46:00Z")
And I didn’t bother, choosing the sexist shortcut because I’m lazy. Anyway, can you imagine a WOMAN dragging a dead horse deep into a cave? She might break a nail, hyuk, yuk, yuk! 😃 Now we add “males did all the interesting work that survives” to the list of cliches and misapprehensions. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaeology-anthropology-cliches/792776/45 "2017-08-07T01:50:06Z")
> [@TreacherousCretin](#): > > Art depicting animals (cave paintings, pictographs, petroglyphs) are always/usually assumed to have been efforts to spiritually influence success for “the hunt.” It’s never supposed that an artistically inclined prehistoric person might have simply felt like creating beautiful art. I don’t know who is more at fault: you for thinking that atistically inclined prehistoric people created art without creating spiritual influence, or the other for suggesting that spiritual influence could happen without art. IN animist cultures (including to some extent modern Japan), objects created for aesthetic pleasure are known to have spiritual effect, as are all other objects with aesthetic properties. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaeology-anthropology-cliches/792776/46 "2017-08-07T05:50:04Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > I don’t know who is more at fault: you for thinking that atistically inclined prehistoric people created art without creating spiritual influence, or the other for suggesting that spiritual influence could happen without art. > > IN animist cultures (including to some extent modern Japan), objects created for aesthetic pleasure are known to have spiritual effect, as are all other objects with aesthetic properties. No comment. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaeology-anthropology-cliches/792776/47 "2017-08-07T06:20:59Z")
All those little statues of women with swollen bellies prove that the society that created them was matriarchal or matrilineal or worshipped a female supreme goddess or a whole pantheon of goddesses or that they were used as fertility symbols or success icons or were pornography for men who were turned on by heavy-set women or were used to scare men who were repulsed by heavy-set women or were used to ensure longevity or said something about the cycles of nature or were used to encourage women to eat more or to eat less or that they should go on the Atkins diet or the macrobiotic diet or were already on the paleo diet or, you know, whatever: > **[Venus figurine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus_figurines)** > > A Venus figurine is any Upper Palaeolithic statuette portraying a woman, usually carved in the round. Most have been unearthed in Europe, but others have been found as far away as Siberia, and distributed across much of Eurasia. > Most date from the Gravettian period (26,000–21,000 years ago). However, findings are not limited to this period; for example, the Venus of Hohle Fels dates back at least 35,000 years to the Aurignacian era, and the Venus of Monruz dates back about 11,000 years to the ... Jennshark writes: \> I left Ohio cuz I was bored As did I, so I guess that two examples completely proves the point for all time. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaeology-anthropology-cliches/792776/48 "2017-08-07T08:55:18Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Anything longer than it is wide is a male fertility symbol. > > Anything wider than it is long is a female fertility symbol. Wouldn’t that depend on how you grab it? ---
**Author:** ![Jennshark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Jennshark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jennshark)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaeology-anthropology-cliches/792776/49 "2017-08-07T14:19:28Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I used to watch Time Team. A BBC archeology series. > > They’d get so excited about the smallest finds. A post stamp size piece of pottery. Or evidence of a wooden post in the ground. It might have been a fence post but it was always evidence of a building for them. > > Takes a lot of imagination to look at a bunch of dirt and visualize a large settlement. > > I never could make that connection from all that bare ground. > > I liked Phil on Time Team. He was a flintknapper. He could make an Arrowhead is a few seconds. We LOVE Time Team! We’re nearing the end of a 16-season bingewatch :eek: In our house we also question the ability to identify a tiny bit of pottery so conclusively; there are other things on the show that are a bit :dubious: but I find everyone so likeable (especially Phil; though, have you noticed he looks just like Donald Trump?) Our doggies dug up a small piece of very thick pottery in the backyard. I identified it as “Early Roman” from a sacred temple holy olive oil pitcher (ca. 243 A.D. in New Jersey). ---
**Author:** ![Jennshark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Jennshark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jennshark)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaeology-anthropology-cliches/792776/50 "2017-08-07T14:22:05Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > All those little statues of women with swollen bellies prove that the society that created them was matriarchal or matrilineal or worshipped a female supreme goddess or a whole pantheon of goddesses or that they were used as fertility symbols or success icons or were pornography for men who were turned on by heavy-set women or were used to scare men who were repulsed by heavy-set women or were used to ensure longevity or said something about the cycles of nature or were used to encourage women to eat more or to eat less or that they should go on the Atkins diet or the macrobiotic diet or were already on the paleo diet or, you know, whatever: > > [Venus figurine - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus_figurines) > > Jennshark writes: > > \> I left Ohio cuz I was bored > > As did I, so I guess that two examples completely proves the point for all time. It sure does for me! ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaeology-anthropology-cliches/792776/51 "2017-08-07T14:25:51Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **dropzone** : > > Anyway, can you imagine a WOMAN dragging a dead horse deep into a cave? She might break a nail, hyuk, yuk, yuk! Not really; horses’ nails are pretty tough. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaeology-anthropology-cliches/792776/52 "2017-08-07T14:59:03Z")
Does anyone remember an early Zap Comix story in which an anthropologist misinterprets the meaning of some cave paintings? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaeology-anthropology-cliches/792776/53 "2017-08-07T15:24:19Z")
> [@TreacherousCretin](#): > > No comment. I expect that post has deep, spiritual significance. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaeology-anthropology-cliches/792776/54 "2017-08-07T17:25:47Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I expect that post has deep, spiritual significance. I could have responded with my initial reaction: " ? " ---
**Author:** ![FlyingRat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/59ef9b/32.png) [@FlyingRat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlyingRat)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaeology-anthropology-cliches/792776/55 "2017-08-07T20:39:36Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Anything longer than it is wide is a male fertility symbol. > > Anything wider than it is long is a female fertility symbol. We always called this “poles and holes”. The Xiaohe (Little River) Cemetery in western China, where some of the earliest “Tarim mummies” were found, [is interesting in this regard](http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/16/science/16archeo.html?pagewanted=all): > [@](#): > > In the women’s coffins, the Chinese archaeologists encountered one or more life-size wooden phalluses laid on the body or by its side. Looking again at the shaping of the 13-foot poles that rise from the prow of each woman’s boat, the archaeologists concluded that the poles were in fact gigantic phallic symbols. > > The men’s boats, on the other hand, all lay beneath the poles with bladelike tops. These were not the oars they had seemed at first sight, the Chinese archaeologists concluded, but rather symbolic vulvas that matched the opposite sex symbols above the women’s boats. “The whole of the cemetery was blanketed with blatant sexual symbolism,” Dr. Mair wrote. In his view, the “obsession with procreation” reflected the importance the community attached to fertility. They did DNA sequencing on a number of the bodies, so they do know biological sex, but I would be surprised if they did _everybody_. (I did my field school at Jamestown (Virginia), where fertility symbols weren’t so much mysterious as downright pornographic.) ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaeology-anthropology-cliches/792776/56 "2017-08-07T21:45:13Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > Everything that can be worn was “ceremonial”. No such thing as fashion or aesthetics; prehistoric humans found no pleasure in the creation or consumption of art or music of any kind. We must have gained those traits only recently, because it was all ceremonial. That drum? Ceremonial. That amulet? Ceremonial. Those earrings, piercings and other jewelry? Ceremonial. You know, I have sometimes wondered about some of the more bizarre (to me) archaeological relics. Are they so well preserved not because they were of great importance therefore rarely worn, but were so rarely worn because ancient peoples thought they looked bizarre also? In other words is it a sacred trival head dress, or is it Great Aunt Uggitia’s ghastly craft project that was hidden in the back of the cave right after that side of the family left? And then there’s the matter of religious texts. What if it’s all Bronze Age fan fiction? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaeology-anthropology-cliches/792776/57 "2017-08-07T22:46:12Z")
Were the “life-size wooden phalluses” life-size or optimistically life-size? > [@FlyingRat](#): > > (I did my field school at Jamestown (Virginia), where fertility symbols weren’t so much mysterious as downright pornographic.) Y’know, when you’re a bunch of guys and the hot chick is 13, you find an alternative. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaeology-anthropology-cliches/792776/58 "2017-08-07T22:47:55Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > And then there’s the matter of religious texts. What if it’s all Bronze Age fan fiction? Or, in the case of The Illiad, slash? ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaeology-anthropology-cliches/792776/59 "2017-08-08T09:06:15Z")
> [@Jennshark](#): > > I left Ohio cuz I was bored:D Was that in 1882, when the population center moved into Indiana? ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaeology-anthropology-cliches/792776/60 "2017-08-08T09:10:37Z")
Given that both Jennshark and I moved east, I’m not sure what it could have to do with the population center’s movement. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaeology-anthropology-cliches/792776.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaeology-anthropology-cliches/792776.md?page=4)