# Archaic phrases **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 30, 2004, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaic-phrases/252869 "2004-06-30T13:04:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Sami41](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c57346/32.png) [@Sami41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sami41)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaic-phrases/252869/41 "2004-07-03T11:38:56Z")
> [@DesertGeezer](#): > > **There’s more than one way to skin a cat** makes me wonder who was skinning cats and when . . . and _why_, for crying out loud! And. . . just how many ways are there? 2? 6? 15? And what are they? (Not to worry, I like cats. The question is purrly :rolleyes: hypothetical). ---
**Author:** ![Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellis_Aponte_Jr)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaic-phrases/252869/42 "2004-07-03T16:16:27Z")
Skinning a cat in its non-metaphoric sense referred to skinning a catfish (to prepare for cooking) if that makes the cat-lovers feel any better. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaic-phrases/252869/43 "2004-07-03T18:31:33Z")
In Napoleon Bonaparte’s day, a new style of warfare used a square of ten soldiers by ten soldiers. The outer layer of men carried long pointy poles, **pikes.** Thus, a **piker** was a grunt, a man of the lowest rank. You don’t hear it much now, but a piker is still small potatoes. ---
**Author:** ![Sinshine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f04885/32.png) [@Sinshine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinshine)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaic-phrases/252869/44 "2004-07-03T18:56:03Z")
> [@AskNott](#): > > If a guy was injured, he was **stove up.** I think this refers to barrel staves, in some way I don’t understand. I have encountered this, is a slightly different context. A friend survived a horrific car crash that left the front end of her car, in the words of the fire chief who responded to the accident, was “completely stove in.” My Oxford Canadian Dictionary notes that “stove” in this contaxt is the past participle of the verb “stave,” to knock a hole in, to crush or knock out of shape, to fit or furnish (ie a cask) with staves (n). So while my friend’s car had its front end crushed, an injured man most likely has taken a significant blow. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaic-phrases/252869/45 "2004-07-03T19:42:31Z")
> [@AskNott](#): > > In Napoleon Bonaparte’s day, a new style of warfare used a square of ten soldiers by ten soldiers. The outer layer of men carried long pointy poles, **pikes.** Thus, a **piker** was a grunt, a man of the lowest rank. You don’t hear it much now, but a piker is still small potatoes. That’s interesting if true (not the word origin, the tactic.) I’ve never heard of that tactic being used in the turn of the 19th century battles. In fact, I was lead to believe that pikes themselves were considered archaic by that time period by many. (However, they were useful in some but not all close combat situations. Probably less useful than a sword or halberd but I digress.) On the other hand, a hundred or so years before that or even further, pikes were indeed used to protect musketeers. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaic-phrases/252869/46 "2004-07-03T19:47:37Z")
Let me amend my previous :dubious: post. This tactic was used in the eastern front (and my mind fails me, perhaps in Egypt), by those that had lances handy, to ward against the predations of hit and run cavalry. On the other hand, I would think that in general, pikes would be too unwieldy to carry around in early 19th century combat for the limited amount of increased protection from cavalry that they would achieve versus the bayonet in a square situation. ---
**Author:** ![Beauty\_Personified](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e480ec/32.png) [@Beauty\_Personified](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beauty_Personified)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2004, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaic-phrases/252869/47 "2004-07-04T08:29:14Z")
“That’s the ticket!” Could someone ( **DesertGeezer**? **Johnny L.A.**?) please tell me exactly what “fell” means in reference to “one fell swoop”, “fell clutch of circumstance” and “fell deeds”? I checked [Dictionary.com](http://Dictionary.com), but I’m not sure which of the many meanings of the word is the right one. “One fell swoop” is mentioned, but only to explain the basic meaning of the expression (“all at once”). I get the impression from the previous posts in this thread that “fell” - in reference to the aforementioned phrases - means either “deadly”/“lethal” or “evil”/“sinister”. And on the subject of rotary phones, I went to high-school with a guy who’s father (who worked for the phone company) had a working rotary phone in his _car_. (I graduated from high-school in 1994.) Anyhoo… ---
**Author:** ![Testy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c37758/32.png) [@Testy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Testy)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2004, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaic-phrases/252869/48 "2004-07-04T10:12:31Z")
OK, weird sayings my dad used to come out with. A hard rain could be a “frog-strangler” or a “gully washer and a trash mover.” Items that were considered to be of high quality were “guaranteed not to rip-run-roar-slide-or smell bad in the summer time.” That phrase has to be said very fast with no pauses between words to sound right. Testy ---
**Author:** ![Largo62](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@Largo62](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Largo62)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2004, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaic-phrases/252869/49 "2004-07-04T10:17:58Z")
> [@Beauty Personified](#): > > “That’s the ticket!” > > Could someone ( **DesertGeezer**? **Johnny L.A.**?) please tell me exactly what “fell” means in reference to “one fell swoop”, “fell clutch of circumstance” and “fell deeds”? In the case of “fell swoop” I’d say deadly is the best choice. The “fell clutch of circumstance” and “fell deeds” most likely mean cruel. My _Living Webster_ says it’s probably Celtic in origin. Just think “extremely negative” and you won’t be far off. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2004, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaic-phrases/252869/50 "2004-07-04T13:27:17Z")
> [@Beauty Personified](#): > > Could someone (DesertGeezer? Johnny L.A.?) please tell me exactly what “fell” means in reference to “one fell swoop”, “fell clutch of circumstance” and “fell deeds”? **fell** [sup]2[/sup] _adj._ 1. Of an inhumanly cruel nature; fierce: \*fell hordes. \* 2. Capable of destroying; lethal: \*a fell blow. \* 3. Dire; sinister: _by some fell chance._ So _one fell swoop_ means “all at once, as if by a single terrible act”. The imagery I see is a raptor tucking in its wings and catching its completely oblivious prey, or a large swath of wheat being cut by a single swoop of a scythe. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2004, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaic-phrases/252869/51 "2004-07-04T15:19:10Z")
My source for **pikes and pikers** in Napoleon’s armies was one of those _Connections_ television shows. You know, the ones where a charming old gent links together seemingly unrelated historical events. Anyway, the guy spoke of this square-with-pikes style of warfare, and how it required massive numbers of soldiers. He went from there to the invention of portable preserved (canned) food, which allowed huge armies to move around without starving. My own knowledge of European warfare is very shallow, indeed, and I don’t know how correct the TV show may have been. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2004, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaic-phrases/252869/52 "2004-07-04T18:46:34Z")
“Have to” sounds archaic in structure; but “must” sounds stilted. ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Orzabal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@Roland\_Orzabal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Orzabal)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2004, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaic-phrases/252869/53 "2004-07-04T20:41:20Z")
A relevant quote taken from the lyrics of my namesake: \*Face those facts, you can’t relax You’ve gotta get that train back on its tracks 'Til the morning comes, the work is done Find your place beneath the sun Rake those leaves as thick as thieves Then go and put your heart back on its sleeve 'Til September rain, and all its pain Dies in vain And I know what you’re thinkin’ The world is shrinkin’ your bones\* –Roland Orzabal, Hypnoculture ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2004, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaic-phrases/252869/54 "2004-07-04T23:43:27Z")
[If you just happen to be of an atheist kidney](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=152691&highlight=kidney) ---
**Author:** ![Largo62](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@Largo62](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Largo62)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2004, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaic-phrases/252869/55 "2004-07-05T07:54:03Z")
> [@astro](#): > > [If you just happen to be of an atheist kidney](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=152691&highlight=kidney) Well, no. But I am an agnostic liver. Living is something I do almost every day. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2004, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaic-phrases/252869/56 "2004-07-05T10:38:30Z")
> [@](#): > > I use “groovy” alot. Damn dirty hippie! Cut your hair! 😃 I like **Far Ourt** ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2004, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaic-phrases/252869/57 "2004-07-05T10:40:14Z")
**Whilst** **Keep your shirt on** ---
**Author:** ![Arch\_Trout](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9f8e36/32.png) [@Arch\_Trout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arch_Trout)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2004, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaic-phrases/252869/58 "2004-07-05T12:25:00Z")
> [@The world's most deadliest...](#): > > I still use **six of one, half-dozen of the other** , but usually have to explain it to anyone under 50. Thanks, Mom. Why? I can’t see why anyone would need it explained to them. I’ve heard it recently on the the radio, although some people seem to have the really annoying habit now of saying “it’s six or two-threes”. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laughing_Lagomorph)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2004, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaic-phrases/252869/59 "2004-07-05T13:07:21Z")
> [@Arch Trout](#): > > Why? > I can’t see why anyone would need it explained to them. > I’ve heard it recently on the the radio, although some people seem to have the really annoying habit now of saying “it’s six or two-threes”. :mad: Maybe it’s a commentary on the pathetic state of the schools? People under 50 don’t know that a half dozen=6? You folks that don’t know what “fell” means have obviously never read _Lord of the Rings_. ---
**Author:** ![Treviathan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/838e76/32.png) [@Treviathan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treviathan)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2004, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaic-phrases/252869/60 "2004-07-05T20:44:20Z")
A friend of mine almost asked someone out because he used “I haven’t the foggiest” in a seminar class once. Which isn’t archaic so much as quaint and grandma-esque. I’m partial to “that’s the kicker of the whole shebang,” though I admit to neither knowing what a shebang consists of nor why one would be so merciless as to kick it. Also, calling someone “old bean” is one of my favorites. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaic-phrases/252869.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaic-phrases/252869.md?page=4)