# Archaic words perserved in stock phrases **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 8, 2013, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaic-words-perserved-in-stock-phrases/655125 "2013-04-08T01:53:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaic-words-perserved-in-stock-phrases/655125/61 "2013-04-09T16:07:29Z")
> [@StJoan](#): > > Well, you can also wax eloquent. And you should. If you don’t, it tends to dry out, and no one appreciates dry eloquence these days. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaic-words-perserved-in-stock-phrases/655125/62 "2013-04-09T17:18:40Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > occasionally wax wroth Groucho, upon being informed that the dean is waxing wroth,: “Is Roth out there too? Tell Roth to wax the Dean for a while.” ---
**Author:** ![Mona\_Lisa\_Simpson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ce7236/32.png) [@Mona\_Lisa\_Simpson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mona_Lisa_Simpson)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaic-words-perserved-in-stock-phrases/655125/63 "2013-04-09T17:29:47Z")
> [@Balance](#): > > And you should. If you don’t, it tends to dry out, and no one appreciates dry eloquence these days. Well dry eloquence goes better with dinner, a sweeter eloquence after dinner, a sweeter eloquence with smoked or salty foods and cheeses. Also on “Wrought Iron”, I had a friend who was looking for something for her yard, I suggested wrought iron, she said “no she didn’t like the rusted folksy shabby chic look” ---
**Author:** ![phouka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c5a1d2/32.png) [@phouka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phouka)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaic-words-perserved-in-stock-phrases/655125/64 "2013-04-09T17:37:38Z")
“What hath God wrought?” - I think that’s supposed to be the first telegraph message. Also, I seem to remember that “neck” from “this neck of the woods” is an archaic use, where neck refers to a parcel or lot. ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaic-words-perserved-in-stock-phrases/655125/65 "2013-04-11T14:10:04Z")
I’m not sure what _turpitude_ is, but it’s considered a bad thing when morals are involved. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaic-words-perserved-in-stock-phrases/655125/66 "2013-04-11T14:50:37Z")
> [@Arrogance\_Ex\_Machina](#): > > “Cleave” and some other examples like “fell”, are being preserved in the role-playing game jargon. Though it never means cling together there. Just did a quick Google search and maybe 1/3 - 1/4 of the top hits were RPG related. [For example.](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0102.html) ---
**Author:** ![Wallaby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/dc4da7/32.png) [@Wallaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallaby)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaic-words-perserved-in-stock-phrases/655125/67 "2013-04-11T23:15:51Z")
‘Augur’ - as in ‘It augurs well’. Much-loved by footballers giving the usual tedious, inconsequential interviews here in Australia. Unfortunately, most of them have never heard of the word ‘Augur’, and so tend to mangle the phrase into ‘It all goes well for next Saturday’s game’ etc. I’ve seen the same in print from several journalists. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaic-words-perserved-in-stock-phrases/655125/68 "2013-04-11T23:27:28Z")
> [@Wallaby](#): > > ‘Augur’ - as in ‘It augurs well’. Much-loved by footballers giving the usual tedious, inconsequential interviews here in Australia. > > Unfortunately, most of them have never heard of the word ‘Augur’, and so tend to mangle the phrase into ‘It all goes well for next Saturday’s game’ etc. I’ve seen the same in print from several journalists. Huh… I’ve never heard augur as a verb before, I thought it was a noun that roughly meant “seer” or “oracle”. Though I suppose it makes sense that an “augur” might just be “one who augurs”. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaic-words-perserved-in-stock-phrases/655125/69 "2013-04-12T00:10:13Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > Huh… I’ve never heard augur as a verb before, I thought it was a noun that roughly meant “seer” or “oracle”. Though I suppose it makes sense that an “augur” might just be “one who augurs”. Or, you could say "It augurs well, because we’re really gonna [auger](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/auger) them! ---
**Author:** ![ioioio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ioioio/32/316_2.png) [@ioioio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ioioio)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaic-words-perserved-in-stock-phrases/655125/70 "2013-04-12T02:48:36Z")
Run the gauntlet. Gauntlets aren’t nearly as popular as they once were. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaic-words-perserved-in-stock-phrases/655125/71 "2013-04-12T02:59:11Z")
Off the top of my head I can think of an archaic pattern in Dutch, as in _heer des huizes_ (“man of the house”). The phrase _des huizes_, or “of the house”, is an example of an old genitive neuter construction which is not otherwise used except in similar fossilized phrases. IIRC many Dutch family names that have prefixes also exhibit obsolete constructions, e.g. _van der X_, _van den X_ _ten X_, and so on. As for German, from asking native speakers here and elsewhere, I gather that the neuter/masculine singular dative ending _-e_ is well on the way to this status if not there already. An example of a stock phrase would be _zum Tod **e** verurteilt_ (“sentenced to death”). ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaic-words-perserved-in-stock-phrases/655125/72 "2013-04-12T03:40:29Z")
Bode Whelmed ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaic-words-perserved-in-stock-phrases/655125/73 "2013-04-12T04:49:24Z")
> [@ioioio](#): > > Run the gauntlet. > > Gauntlets aren’t nearly as popular as they once were. The original word was “gantlet,” not “gauntlet.” Webster’s Second defines “gantlet” as > [@](#): > > a military punishment formerly in use, wherein the offender was made to run stripped to the waist between two files of men facing one another, who struck him with switches, clubs, cords, etc. as he passed. The word is also used to describe two sets of railroad tracks that temporarily converge without joining in order to get through a narrow area. A gauntlet is a type of glove. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaic-words-perserved-in-stock-phrases/655125/74 "2013-04-12T16:05:33Z")
I’ve read that “the exception proves the rule” is based on an archaic meaning of “prove” which is to test something. This meaning also survives in the term “the proving ground”, and “the proof of the pudding is in the eating”, but is generally not used otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaic-words-perserved-in-stock-phrases/655125/75 "2013-04-12T17:49:43Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I’ve read that “the exception proves the rule” is based on an archaic meaning of “prove” which is to test something. Not really. This was already covered in this thread - see post #40. BTW, when I hear someone say, “The proof is in the pudding,” I think of rum pudding. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaic-words-perserved-in-stock-phrases/655125/76 "2013-04-12T17:56:58Z")
Somehow missed that (as well as posts 29-30). My apologies. :o ---
**Author:** ![biqu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7feea3/32.png) [@biqu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/biqu)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaic-words-perserved-in-stock-phrases/655125/77 "2013-04-12T23:01:27Z")
> [@Jeff\_Lichtman](#): > > A gauntlet is a type of glove. Indeed, that’s what the German-to-English translators settled on when subtitling (one of the deleted scenes from) [Nordwand](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0844457/?ref_=sr_1). ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaic-words-perserved-in-stock-phrases/655125/78 "2013-04-14T02:30:02Z")
I think “Fair to Middling” qualifies. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaic-words-perserved-in-stock-phrases/655125/79 "2013-04-14T11:08:30Z")
Which reminds me of the book “Far from the Madding Crowd.” Don’t think I’ve ever heard or seen the word “madding” used otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaic-words-perserved-in-stock-phrases/655125/80 "2013-04-14T13:31:07Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Have you ever heard the word “bated” without the word “breath”? Yes, except as “abated.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaic-words-perserved-in-stock-phrases/655125.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archaic-words-perserved-in-stock-phrases/655125.md?page=5)