# Archbishop Compares Criticisms Of Pope To Jesus' Sufferings **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 30, 2010, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289 "2010-03-30T02:02:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/221 "2010-04-10T18:27:18Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > THe Church’s rules now say for priests guilty of a single case of abuse, they are permanantly barred from all public ministry. That is a “lifetime ban,” adopted in 2002. > > From your link, USA Swimming only adopted their policy in 2006. > > So it seems that in comparison of the two, the Church acted sooner and as prudently. What am I missing? Which of the two _enforces_ their policy better? Without enforcement, a policy is a piece of paper. BTW–my Father is Catholic, & I have attended a Catholic school. ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/222 "2010-04-10T19:28:55Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > What am I missing? Evidence that the church’s policy has ever been enforced. How many priests have actually been removed from the ministry? How many have been turned over to secular authorities? Because it looks from here like that policy is nothing more than lip service. Look at [Joseph Palanivel Jeyapaul](http://www.aolnews.com/nation/article/indian-priest-joseph-palanivel-jeyapaul-may-return-to-face-abuse-charges-in-us/19429015), a priest who’s under indictment in Minnesota for sexual assault against two teenage girls. What was the Vatican’s response to the allegations? > [@](#): > > Church documents released Monday indicate that Minnesota bishop Victor Balke sent three letters about Jeyapaul, the first in December 2005, to Cardinal William J. Levada, former archbishop of San Francisco and now head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which investigates alleged crimes by priests. > > Balke asked the Vatican to act on the case, writing that if Jeyapaul’s alleged crimes were ignored, it “would be a shameful act of betrayal toward the women and girls in India to whom Father Jeyapaul could at present pose a risk.” > > Six months later, Balke got a response from one of Levada’s deputies, saying only that Jeyapaul would be “monitored so that he does not constitute a risk to minors and does not create a scandal among the faithful.” These complaints date from 2004 and 2005. How’s that 2002 policy working? ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/223 "2010-04-11T00:36:51Z")
I see that their “policy” (or at least their working procedure) seems to be to send priests who have had complaints filed against them away from White America and over to brown people land: Indian reservations and (apparently) India. Seems to work for them just fine… until now. Side note:Who knew there were Catholics in India? Ignorance fought. Too bad the Church cannot seem to face its own ignorance and clean its own house. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/224 "2010-04-11T03:53:47Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > THe Church’s rules now say for priests guilty of a single case of abuse, they are permanantly barred from all public ministry. That is a “lifetime ban,” adopted in 2002. > > From your link, USA Swimming only adopted their policy in 2006. > > So it seems that in comparison of the two, the Church acted sooner and as prudently. What am I missing? Once again: you (and the RCC) are convicting the seven Watergate burglars, while missing Haldeman, Ehrlichmann, Mitchell, Colson, etc. ETA: Maybe Joey the Rat’s papal name should be Pope Nixon I. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/225 "2010-04-12T18:08:59Z")
Yeah! [All is Forgiven:](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100412/ap_on_en_mu/eu_vatican_beatles) > [@](#): > > The Vatican has finally made peace with the Beatles, saying their drug use, “dissolute” lives and even the claim that the band was bigger than Jesus are all in the past — while their music lives on. Oh, wait, that’s got nothing to do with the church cosseting paedophiles. Here’s the story that’s relevent to this thread: [Vatican to bishops: follow law, report sex abuse](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100412/ap_on_re_eu/eu_church_abuse) > [@](#): > > Pope Benedict XVI had told Irish bishops last month that they should cooperate with civil authorities in investigating abuse. But the guidelines mark the first time that such procedures for the church at large, in which bishops are explicitly told they should follow civil reporting laws, have been laid out publicly. I wonder how sincere this is, and why it took the church so long to get here. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/226 "2010-04-12T21:07:06Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > My internet just came up again. > > I will note that not a single poster since my last post has mentioned a case of abuse by a non-religious group. (One poster posited about a hypothetical secular daycare center.) Almost as if you are focusing on religion rather than child abuse. Well, since the topic of the thread is more properly about a series of enabling institutional coverups, rather than child abuse, _per se_, it doesn’t really seem out of line that the focus should be on a particular institution that has been guilty of them. You’re free to try to shift it into a discussion of child abuse _per se_, if you prefer to discuss that, but indications are that you’re not going to succeed. And your apparent continued attempts to do so seem to be getting some people wondering why you don’t wish for there to be a Pitting of institutional enabling coverups. If you’re perfectly okay with there being a Pit thread that focuses on institutional enabling coverups, a really good way of signaling that willingness would be to stop cavilling about it being the focus of this one. OTOH, if you just want to have a Pit thread about ALL organizations that harbor child abusers, you could start one… ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/227 "2010-04-12T21:16:25Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > OTOH, if you just want to have a Pit thread about ALL organizations that harbor child abusers, you could start one… But if he did that, he wouldn’t be able to use his “But what about them over _there_?” excuse, would he? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/228 "2010-04-12T21:32:44Z")
Kind soul that I am, I have not yet convicted hm in my mind of being primarily motivated by such a consideration. Perhaps his response to my post will make things clearer. Perhaps. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/229 "2010-04-13T02:16:06Z")
From Squink’s link: > [@](#): > > The Vatican on Monday [made] it clear for the first time that bishops and clerics worldwide should report such crimes to police if they are required to by law. “IF” they are required to by law. If not, well, let them molest away, and tell nobody. No reporting requirement, no foul. Oh, and [Rod “Crunchy Con” Dreher](http://blog.beliefnet.com/roddreher/2010/04/ratzinger-bishop-take-your-time-with-that-pedophile.html): > [@](#): > > if anybody thinks Pope Benedict should resign, they should sober up and understand that there is almost certainly nobody under him who is untainted by this thing. Well, fuck, if that’s the case, then it’s time to break up the Catholic Church and sell off its assets, give the money to its (far too many) victims, and let the laity decide whether they still want a Catholic Church or not, and what sort of church it should be. The scary thing with respect to Dreher is that this is part of his ongoing _defense_ of the Rat. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/230 "2010-04-13T02:51:57Z")
You have to admire perfections and the Church has (and is) perfectly screwing up. I am awestruck at how tonedeaf these people are. They honestly seem puzzled people are upset. Just for a moment take these people’s comments as true statements as to what they think. I am amazed. Further, every day there is a new revelation. It just keeps getting worse. A remarkable story. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/231 "2010-04-13T03:28:08Z")
Um, ok. Sometimes this place makes my head hurt. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/232 "2010-04-13T03:36:44Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > Um, ok. > > Sometimes this place makes my head hurt. Whiplash? ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/233 "2010-04-13T03:43:16Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Whiplash? Yup. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/234 "2010-04-14T08:51:13Z")
Eh. I think you are being very generous, considering his previous behavior in this thread. If you parse his statements thoroughly, I feel they’re pretty equivocal. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/235 "2010-04-14T19:11:46Z")
[Church spokesman: Celibacy doesn’t cause pedophilia, homosexuality does.](http://www.salon.com/news/catholicism/index.html?story=/mwt/feature/2010/04/14/vatican_blames_gays) And, no, that is not from _The Onion._ ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/236 "2010-04-14T20:49:36Z")
> [@Enginerd](#): > > [Here you go](http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/otl/news/story?id=5071820). That’s a report that details the inadequate protections, loose background checks, and lack of reporting that led to 30 years of abuse in youth swimming programs. > > USA Swimming has banned 36 coaches for life as a response to molestation charges. If the Catholic church had the conscience and good sense to do the same with abusing priests, this thread wouldn’t exist. Yeah, but are they still threatening to damn their young swimmers’ and swimmers families’ souls to eternal hell? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/237 "2010-04-14T23:51:58Z")
Only if they don’t beat Tech next week. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/238 "2010-04-15T00:00:18Z")
> [@BrightNShiny](#): > > Eh. I think you are being very generous, considering his previous behavior in this thread. If you parse his statements thoroughly, I feel they’re pretty equivocal. My “Um, ok.” was meant to demonstrated dumbfoundedness. It still does. I have no words for the most recent link. And to think that there used to be scholarly, intelligent people who were Catholic. Perhaps we need another Enlightenment. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/239 "2010-04-15T00:49:10Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > My “Um, ok.” was meant to demonstrated dumbfoundedness. It still does. Noted. This is the statement that is bugging me: [QUOTE=Paul in Qatar (or is it Douchebag in Hell?)] Just for a moment take these people’s comments as true statements as to what they think. [/QUOTE] Imagine that! Taking someone’s statements as evidence of what they actually think! How odd! To me, this reads like another attempt to carry water for these immoral individuals. **Paul** seems to be saying that these hideous statements are not actually meant to be taken at face value, but rather the people making these statements have some super-secret thoughts which they just aren’t sharing with us. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/240 "2010-04-15T01:04:43Z")
> [@BrightNShiny](#): > > Noted. > > This is the statement that is bugging me: > > Imagine that! Taking someone’s statements as evidence of what they actually think! How odd! To me, this reads like another attempt to carry water for these immoral individuals. **Paul** seems to be saying that these hideous statements are not actually meant to be taken at face value, but rather the people making these statements have some super-secret thoughts which they just aren’t sharing with us. Funny how you say Paul should take someone’s statements at face value, but do not do the same for him. I think it’s pretty clear that he thinks that, while the pedophilia coverup is bad, that some people are using it as a way to voice pure anti-Catholic views. In the Catholic setup, breaking them down would be the equivalent of damning every person in the world to eternal torment, since they are the Church. As hard as it may be, they’d rather get rid of all the bad people, rather than dismantle the Church itself. Remember, the Church is much more than its clergy. And there are at least some untainted clergy out there. Just get rid of the tainted ones and start another Reformation. An analogy for you would be to consider if the Church officials were U.S. government officials. You might want to replace the government, but not the country itself, i.e. its people. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289.md?page=13)