# Archbishop Compares Criticisms Of Pope To Jesus' Sufferings **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 30, 2010, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289 "2010-03-30T02:02:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2010, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/81 "2010-04-04T12:33:54Z")
[“Urbi et Orbi”:](http://www.oecumene.radiovaticana.org/en1/Articolo.asp?c=368893) > [@](#): > > In our days too, humanity needs an “exodus”, not just superficial adjustment, but a spiritual and moral conversion. It needs the salvation of the Gospel, so as to emerge from a profound crisis, one which requires deep change, beginning with consciences. > -Pope Benedict XVI, Easter Sunday Sure, humanity needs a spiritual and moral conversion, but would it have killed Benedict to have mentioned that the church needs a little fixing up too? Avoiding the big issue like that erodes his moral authority. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2010, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/82 "2010-04-04T14:35:14Z")
What moral authority? Seems to me he has none left to erode. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2010, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/83 "2010-04-04T18:52:01Z")
Further evidence, if such is needed, that compulsory celilbacy is not healthy, and an organizational structure commanded by celibate men is a Very Bad Idea. The Goddess, in Her wisdom, has decided to make male humans as testosterone-addled sex maniacs. Powerful cellibates are not an improvement over powerful eunuchs. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2010, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/84 "2010-04-04T21:01:30Z")
Heeeyyy! People! \ Ignore it all! After all, [it’s just gossip!, Nothing more.](http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/04/04/vatican.easter/index.html?hpt=T2) > [@](#): > > “Also with you are the faithful who do not let themselves be influenced by gossip,” Sodano said in Italian, using the word “chiacchiericcio,” which means chatter or gossip. “May the Lord continue to sustain your mission at the service of the church in the world.” ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2010, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/85 "2010-04-04T21:31:49Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > [just gossip!](http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/04/04/vatican.easter/index.html?hpt=T2) [Lots and lots of gossip:](http://www.smh.com.au/world/abuse-hotline-crashes-as-humiliated-church-prays-for-a-new-start-20100403-rkrt.html) > [@](#): > > AN ABUSE hotline set up by the Catholic Church in Germany crashed on its first day as more than 4400 alleged victims of paedophile and violent priests called to seek counselling and advice. > > The handful of therapists assigned to deal with them could not cope with the numbers - only 162 of 4459 callers were given advice before the system was closed. > > Andreas Zimmer, the head of the project in the Bishopric of Trier, said he was not prepared for ‘‘that kind of an onslaught’’. > > The hotline is the church’s attempt to win back trustfollowing an escalating abuse scandal that threatens the papacy of German-born Pope Benedict. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2010, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/86 "2010-04-05T00:49:22Z")
> [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](#): > > [Reasonably well considered opinion piece in the Manawatu Standard](http://www.stuff.co.nz/manawatu-standard/opinion/3526013/Editorial-Pope-has-misjudged-sex-abuse-response). [pet peeve] Of course they condoned it. Condone doesn’t mean officially sanction, it means to ignore, turn a blind eye to, let pass without punishment, etc… [/PP] ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2010, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/87 "2010-04-05T14:47:31Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Further evidence, if such is needed, that compulsory celilbacy is not healthy, and an organizational structure commanded by celibate men is a Very Bad Idea. The Goddess, in Her wisdom, has decided to make male humans as testosterone-addled sex maniacs. Powerful cellibates are not an improvement over powerful eunuchs. Even if you don’t agree that celibacy does anything to people who practice it, you must see that celibacy makes the priesthood a less attractive career choice to a lot of people. And when you don’t have a lot of people lining up for available jobs, you can’t be as choosy about who gets those jobs as you could be if they were more appealing to more people. These scandals show (among other things) that the Catholic Church hasn’t been choosy enough about who they ordain or keep on as a priest. They need to look at what about the priesthood might be making it unattractive as a career choice. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2010, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/88 "2010-04-05T16:02:37Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Further evidence, if such is needed, that compulsory celilbacy is not healthy, and an organizational structure commanded by celibate men is a Very Bad Idea. This falls into the category of something everyone knows, and yet which has never been proven. How do we know supposedly celibate men are more likely to abuse children than a control group? I would maintain we do not know, and we ought to err on the side of caution. I suspect (and I cannot prove) that child abuse is and was common in a huge number of institutions. We need to compare the Catholic Church against (say) the French Boy Scouts and the Tulsa School District. Further, I wonder if the Church behaved much differently than other groups in (say) 1965. I suspect (and I cannot prove) that most organizations behaved in much the same way. Faced with such a messy problem, they tried to hush it up and ship the molester out of town, with a stern warning not to return and a letter of recommendation. If we presume the Catholic Church was uniquely a den of molesters, we are in danger of overlooking other sources of abuse. Are we giving the adult leadership of the Young Pioneers a free pass? If so, why? The issue here is abuse. Until we have more information, we ought not to let it become a singleminded attack on this or that institution. On the other hand, this pope seems up to his neck in this. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2010, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/89 "2010-04-05T16:48:42Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > If we presume the Catholic Church was uniquely a den of molesters, we are in danger of overlooking other sources of abuse. Are we giving the adult leadership of the Young Pioneers a free pass? If so, why? You’re looking at it backwards. If the entire leadership structure of the Boy Scouts was found to be actively engaged in molesting children or facilitating those who do, there would be no more Boy Scouts. No one thinks that the intercession of the Boy Scouts is necessary to avoid going to hell, and no one has been taught from birth that the Boy Scouts have demigod-like levels of moral credibility. The unspoken issue here is what happens when an unsavory institution acquires the power of religious authority over a lot of people. Because Catholics refuse to treat the Church like any other organization, it won’t be disbanded and jailed for engaging in a massive criminal conspiracy the way that any other organization would. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2010, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/90 "2010-04-05T19:04:46Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > I suspect (and I cannot prove) that child abuse is and was common in a huge number of > institutions. None of which should be able to ensure that a child molester gets away unpunished. > [@](#): > > Further, I wonder if the Church behaved much differently than other groups in (say) 1965. I suspect (and I cannot prove) that most organizations behaved in much the same way. Faced with such a messy problem, they tried to hush it up and ship the molester out of town, with a stern warning not to return and a letter of recommendation. Yes, but were other institutions still doing that in [1998](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/25/AR2010032502393.html?waporef=obinsite)? That’s when the Vatican office halted a US church investigation of a priest who had been accused of molesting children, because the priest said he was in poor health and had repented of what he had done. Also, doesn’t the Catholic Church teach that “everybody else was doing it” isn’t a good excuse for immoral behavior? Or do people who confess to having premarital sex or using birth control get a pass on those, because “everybody’s doing it”? ---
**Author:** ![BigBertha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@BigBertha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigBertha)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2010, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/91 "2010-04-05T19:32:02Z")
Power to the people. If only the people would leave the church in droves (or Hondas). What would happen then? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2010, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/92 "2010-04-05T20:03:26Z")
The church doors would have to be widened. If they were leaving in Hondas, that is. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2010, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/93 "2010-04-05T20:34:05Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The church doors would have to be widened. If they were leaving in Hondas, that is. If they were leaving in Hummers, would the priests be driving? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2010, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/94 "2010-04-05T20:36:45Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > If they were leaving in Hummers, would the priests be driving? You’re a bad, BAD woman… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2010, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/95 "2010-04-05T22:48:01Z")
[QUOTE=Me] Ugh. These people are deeply sinful and immoral, and anybody who supports them or tries to carry water for them is deeply sinful and immoral as well. [/QUOTE] And as if on cue… [Quote=Paul in Qatar] suspect (and I cannot prove) that child abuse is and was common in a huge number of institutions. We need to compare the Catholic Church against (say) the French Boy Scouts and the Tulsa School District. Further, I wonder if the Church behaved much differently than other groups in (say) 1965. I suspect (and I cannot prove) that most organizations behaved in much the same way. Faced with such a messy problem, they tried to hush it up and ship the molester out of town, with a stern warning not to return and a letter of recommendation. If we presume the Catholic Church was uniquely a den of molesters, we are in danger of overlooking other sources of abuse. Are we giving the adult leadership of the Young Pioneers a free pass? If so, why? The issue here is abuse. Until we have more information, we ought not to let it become a singleminded attack on this or that institution. [/QUOTE] Thank god you are here to lecture us on how we have to be even-minded so that we don’t inadvertently treat one set of admitted child molesters differently than hypothetical child molesters. :rolleyes: You are a disgusting individual. ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2010, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/96 "2010-04-05T23:41:30Z")
I’m a lapsed Catholic from decades ago, but really, can the Catholic church get any more disgusting? There should be a youtube video like the one that guy made a couple years ago “leeeeavvveee Britney (Spears) allloooonnnee!” only with some bishop whining “leeeeavvee Ratso alllooooonnne!” Childish and pointless, changing nothing, but damn, I would laugh. ---
**Author:** ![qbadger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/fbc32d/32.png) [@qbadger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qbadger)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2010, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/97 "2010-04-05T23:43:54Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > This falls into the category of something everyone knows, and yet which has never been proven. How do we know supposedly celibate men are more likely to abuse children than a control group? I would maintain we do not know, and we ought to err on the side of caution. I agree. We should err on the side of caution. Although I’m not sure we are thinking about the same side here. Hmmm… Curious. > [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > If we presume the Catholic Church was uniquely a den of molesters, we are in danger of overlooking other sources of abuse. Are we giving the adult leadership of the Young Pioneers a free pass? If so, why? Once again I find myself in agreement. A pass like that shouldn’t be given out nilly willy to just **anyone**. And certainly not the Young Pioneers. No, they can join the back of queue with the rest of the molesters at the ticket office. > [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > The issue here is abuse. Until we have more information, we ought not to let it become a singleminded attack on this or that institution. Yeah, stop attacking, people! We need More Information! There’s got to be some other institution like say the _French_ Boy Scouts (you know what the French are like) who was also doing it. Heck they were all doing it, it’s the _70’s_! Anyway look, it doesn’t matter. Let’s all focus on the real issue here. “Abuse = Bad”. We can all agree to that and move on. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/98 "2010-04-06T02:36:56Z")
> [@BrightNShiny](#): > > You are a disgusting individual. What? I showered this morning, If you want to go at the Catholic Church (or the Young Pioneers), have at it. But if that is your goal just say it. If your goal is rooting out child abuse, you ought not to go after one (really creepy) institution only. My old scoutmaster was a molester. (Me? Nah, he never touched me.) He was eventually sued by one of his victims and the Scouts, the local troop’s sponsor, the police, everyone was shocked, shocked I tell you. Now how could that be? The Scouts frankly admit they were infiltrated. They are making headway in tracking down abusers. But it does show you that other groups behaved much as the Catholics did. Although the 1998 comment is spot on. Other groups (seem to have) cleaned up their acts earlier. I maintain that if you looked in your local community you would find other abuse rings not related to the Catholic Church. It is easy to go after the targets already identified, but it would be more useful to find those who are still hidden. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/99 "2010-04-06T02:42:50Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > The Scouts frankly admit they were infiltrated. I’m glad they exclude homosexuals. I’m sure that does a lot to cut down on molestation! ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2010, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/100 "2010-04-06T02:48:40Z")
So why do so many people say somehow abuse is caused by the (much ignored) requirement of chaste priests? If this is so, there ought to be proof. If there is no proof, we are being distracted by a red herring. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289.md?page=6)