# Archbishop Compares Criticisms Of Pope To Jesus' Sufferings **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 30, 2010, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289 "2010-03-30T02:02:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/161 "2010-04-07T21:56:52Z")
> [@gazpacho](#): > > It is an especially bad defense when everybody else isn’t doing it. What other organization has a decades long practice of shielding people abusing children? As I noted [above](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12283103&postcount=16), the execrable Bill Donohue offered a bogus “everybody else did it” assertion, equating corporations that let HR handle cases of grabassery with the Church’s pedophile cover-ups. Obviously, this fails on multiple levels: 1. Workplace sexual harassment, unacceptable as it is, does not rise to the level of child rape. 2. Internal handling of sexual harassment cases included at least a serious risk of actual punishment (i.e. dismissal rather than transfer to another department). ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/162 "2010-04-07T22:21:14Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > [St. Maria Goretti](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Goretti), at the beginning of the 20th Century. Thank you. I probably should say here that while times change, the Church doesn’t! \ No, seriously, it doesn’t matter what century it was in. It’s still despicable. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2010, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/163 "2010-04-08T04:42:18Z")
> [@Icerigger](#): > > Yeah, if you want to vomit take a look at this, the CC just loves women. > > [Abortion - Pro Life - "Letter to a Young Girl" by Dr. Alice Von Hildebrand](http://www.priestsforlife.org/resources/vonhildebrandletter.htm) > > > [@](#): > > > > Let us take off our “secular” eyeglasses, and then we shall be able to see that women, far from being “discriminated” against, are in many ways privileged. And this is the “secret” I wish to share with you. The body of every little girl born into this world is mysteriously sealed by what is properly called the “veil of virginity”. That is to say, a “secret” is entrusted to her body, and a secret is always “veiled”. According to Christian teaching, this veil closes the entrance to a mysterious garden which belongs to God in a special way, and for this reason cannot be entered into except with His express permission, the permission that God grants spouses in the Sacrament of Matrimony. Any little girl aware of this “mystery” will feel that her body is to be modestly clothed, so that its secret will be hidden from lewd looks. > [@Mollie\_Magill](#): > > Wow, Humbert Humbert has nothing on this guy. Girl. The piece is attributed to Dr. Alice von Hildebrand. Offered just in case you still had some stomach contents left after all that vomiting. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2010, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/164 "2010-04-08T05:00:16Z")
Alice may well be male. It’s a name like Carroll, Meredith or Hillary–it can swing either way (ok, back in the day-day, as in Victorian times, but still!) ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2010, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/165 "2010-04-08T06:40:42Z")
[Sorry, nope.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_von_Hildebrand) See also the wikipedia articles on her late husband Dietrich, and on “New Feminism” (she gets a cursory mention by name, but the subject seems to resonate on pretty much the same frequency as **Icerigger** ’s quoted text). ---
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2010, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/166 "2010-04-08T09:36:09Z")
Here is an interview with the lovely lady, sick just sick the Catholic view of women is no different than the Taliban. > **[Alice Von Hildebrand on Feminism and Femininity - Featured Today - Catholic...](https://www.catholic.org/featured/headline.php?ID=530&page=1)** > > Says Women Can Escape a Trap by Imitating Mary's Strength and Humility NEW ... > [@](#): > > The amazing thing is that feminism, instead of making women more profoundly aware of the beauty and dignity of their role as wives as mothers, and of the spiritual power that they can exercise over their husbands, convinced them that they, too, had to adopt a secularist mentality: They, too, should enter the work force; they, too, should prove to themselves that they were someone by getting diplomas, competing with men in the work market, showing that they were their equals and – when given opportunities – could outsmart them. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2010, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/167 "2010-04-08T10:03:02Z")
> [@Icerigger](#): > > Here is an interview with the lovely lady, sick just sick the Catholic view of women is no different than the Taliban. Yes, but they have a better PR team. ---
**Author:** ![bannerrefugee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c68b51/32.png) [@bannerrefugee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bannerrefugee)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2010, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/168 "2010-04-08T10:18:23Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > From the “when you’re in a hole, stop digging” department: > > WTF?? The story of Jesus being accused of covering up Apostolic boy-diddling must be in one of those apocryphal books I’ve heard about, because I’m pretty sure it’s not in any of the canonical Gospels. > > (I figure I might as well post this in the Pit to begin with.) It was the holy ghost, that sneaky pedo ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2010, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/169 "2010-04-08T13:03:22Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > Thank you. I probably should say here that while times change, the Church doesn’t! \ > > No, seriously, it doesn’t matter what century it was in. It’s still despicable. You weren’t that wrong. She was killed at the turn of the 20th, but she was made a saint in the 1950s - apparently, both her mom and her murderer attended the ceremony. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2010, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/170 "2010-04-08T13:15:24Z")
> [@Icerigger](#): > > Here is an interview with the lovely lady, sick just sick the Catholic view of women is no different than the Taliban. > > [Alice Von Hildebrand on Feminism and Femininity - Featured Today - Catholic Online](http://www.catholic.org/featured/headline.php?ID=530&page=1) Wow. Given her academic credentials outlined earlier in the article: \*Von Hildebrand earned her doctorate in philosophy at Fordham University and is professor emeritus of Hunter College of the City University of New York. \* She’s clearly a hypocrite of the highest order. I feel sorry for good and decent Catholics who are hurt by a very bad church. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2010, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/171 "2010-04-08T14:04:12Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > Wow. > > Given her academic credentials outlined earlier in the article: > > \*Von Hildebrand earned her doctorate in philosophy at Fordham University and is professor emeritus of Hunter College of the City University of New York. \* > > She’s clearly a hypocrite of the highest order. > > I feel sorry for good and decent Catholics who are hurt by a very bad church. Just an FYI - Fordham is run by the Jesuits, who no doubt made sure she was fully aware of and in compliance with her wifely duties before granting her PhD. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2010, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/172 "2010-04-08T16:25:42Z")
> [@](#): > > Alice von Hildebrand […] began teaching at Hunter College in New York City in 1947. […] She retired in 1984. > > Alice von Hildebrand lives in the United States and is a lecturer and an author, whose works include: The Privilege of Being a Woman (2002) and The Soul of a Lion: The Life of Dietrich von Hildebrand (2000), a biography of her late husband. I somehow doubt that Alice von Hildebrand has renounced her own salary and pension from her 35±year teaching career, or her lecture fees or book royalties. Apparently getting diplomas and competing with men in the work market instead of just being profoundly aware of the beauty and dignity of your role as wife and mother is only a bad thing when _other_ women do it, especially those “secular feminists”. (In fact, since she was married at age 36 to a 69-year-old man who died 18 years later and AFAICT had no children by him, her own “role as wife and mother” doesn’t seem to have occupied much of her life.) ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2010, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/173 "2010-04-08T16:30:22Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > [Sorry, nope.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_von_Hildebrand) See also the wikipedia articles on her late husband Dietrich, and on “New Feminism” (she gets a cursory mention by name, but the subject seems to resonate on pretty much the same frequency as **Icerigger** ’s quoted text). Ack. :eek: :mad: ☹ ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2010, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/174 "2010-04-08T16:34:46Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > I somehow doubt that Alice von Hildebrand has renounced her own salary and pension from her 35±year teaching career, or her lecture fees or book royalties. Apparently getting diplomas and competing with men in the work market instead of just being profoundly aware of the beauty and dignity of your role as wife and mother is only a bad thing when _other_ women do it, especially those “secular feminists”. > > (In fact, since she was married at age 36 to a 69-year-old man who died 18 years later and AFAICT had no children by him, her own “role as wife and mother” doesn’t seem to have occupied much of her life.) Perhaps she and Phyllis Schlafly were separated at birth? Thank god these kind of women are given less and less attention. And why is it always some privileged white woman who does this? Has she ever had to worry about a paycheck or putting food on the table in her life? :mad: If you (generic you) want to stay home and have babies etc–more power to you, but don’t tell the rest of us that’s our sole reason for being on the planet. And stop imbuing reproduction with some kind of holy experience–yes, it’s a miracle: a NATURAL miracle. Gah. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2010, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/175 "2010-04-08T17:06:56Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > And why is it always some privileged white woman who does this? Has she ever had to worry about a paycheck or putting food on the table in her life? Because it’s aimed at an audience of privileged white women. At least [one-third of working-age women](http://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2000/feb/wk3/art03.htm) were in the paid workforce through most of the twentieth century (and nearly three-quarters of them are nowadays), mostly because of the economic necessity of earning their own living. But nobody bothers about making sure that poor working-class women have the leisure to devote themselves to “the beauty and dignity of their role as wife and mother”. What would the rest of us do if they did? Those hotel rooms and hospital bedpans aren’t going to clean themselves, you know. The anti-feminists who argue that women **in general** shouldn’t participate in the paid work force are not bothered by lack of logical consistency. Their “rules” don’t apply to themselves if they choose to earn income from their teaching and preaching, and they don’t apply to poor women who need to earn income because they don’t have the luxury of being fully supported by a male breadwinner. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2010, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/176 "2010-04-08T17:18:29Z")
I know. My question was rhetorical. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2010, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/177 "2010-04-08T17:22:53Z")
That’s okay, a rhetorical question is just as good an excuse for a rant as a non-rhetorical one. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/178 "2010-04-09T02:45:37Z")
Guys, I am still more-or-less offline due to internet problems. I am sorry if (as it seems) I have become the issue here. Please do not think I am ignoring your comments on purpose. Since I face such opposition, I have to admit I might be wrong. There is of course the possibility I have written poorly. Let me try again. I suspect (but I cannot prove) that child molestation is (and was) much more widespread than we have been willing to admit. The RCC scandal is important, but what are we ignoring as we focus on one organization? People have said a lot of things about (supposedly) chaste priests being the cause of all this. That may be so, or it may not be. No studies have been done to prove or disprove the thesis. The contention is simply “common knowledge,” and often what everyone knows is wrong. The RCC is (or to be generous, was) the world’s largest organization of pedophiles in the world. Add to that a couple of centuries and you have the sort of horror that could only have come out of bad science fiction. And it all is true. But society is addressing the issue. We will do that imperfectly and incompletely, but the wheels of justice are rolling. But when we focus on the RCC only, we turn away from other organizations that (seem to have) indulged in these crimes for shorter periods of time and in local areas. The story of these other groups is becoming lost to time and hidden by perpetrators. Nobody seems to be investigating other groups. Go on and attack every little part of RCC policy and every priest and bishop as part of a despised religious minority, but you do little to root out the guilty individuals when you do that. The reaction against the RCC is taking on aspects of a mob. Ask yourself, what does a mob look like? I suggest it looks like this. But as I said, I admit I may be wrong. I respect the posters here and will reflect on what has been said. This period of reflection may be aided by my screwy internet connection. (Now let’s see if this thing will send.) ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/179 "2010-04-09T03:21:15Z")
I disagree with you, **Paul.** No one wants to overlook other sources of pedophiles. None of us doubts that there are other institutions that need cleaning up and out. BUT the focus and spotlight is on the Church right now. I see no mob; I see hundreds and thousands of dismayed and sickened people in (probably) every country, all saying “enough” at the same time. I hope the Church heeds this. I am not Catholic, but many many people seem to draw strength from it. But not many want to be associated with such entrenched indifference and villainy. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289/180 "2010-04-09T03:38:30Z")
> [@bannerrefugee](#): > > It was the holy ghost, that sneaky pedo Now I’m picturing this whole thing as a _Family Circus_ cartoon. “Who’s been buggering these altar boys?” “Not Me!” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/archbishop-compares-criticisms-of-pope-to-jesus-sufferings/534289.md?page=10)