# "Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 6, 2016, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917 "2016-08-06T07:26:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2016, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/221 "2016-08-09T12:26:05Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > To give this thread the respect it deserves: I thought the Towers were brought down by a “Death Ray” developed at Area 52 (It’s even more secret than Area 51). :eek: Just in case you think you’re kidding: [Star Wars Energy Weapons 1](http://www.drjudywood.com/articles/DEW/) Remember: no sane person can come up with an idea so outrageous that no Conspiracy Theorist has ever proposed it as a serious alternative. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2016, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/222 "2016-08-09T14:23:54Z")
[QUOTE=JohnClay] Well I guess to do that I’d have to read all of the old threads. Though their 4 part response to Popular Mechanics is from 2012 while I thought the old threads were from a lot longer ago… [/QUOTE] You know, if you had read the whole sentence I actually specified what would truly be new. So, you basically went back a few years, read one thread, saw that the Popular Science article was used and did a search to see if someone had debunked the debunkers, then put in a drive-by link so that I and others could read em and weep? What I asked you for was a peer reviewed paper from the group in your OP that would give the technical specifications of why the collapse(s) had to be from a controlled demolition or whatever other theory they are touting and instead you give me a link without bothering to cut and paste out the parts you think are interesting, that actually make good points (in your opinion) supporting the debunking of PM’s article or, well, anything. > [@](#): > > See Seen it. Here, let me show you how it’s done. Click [here](http://www.debunking911.com/paper.htm). Here is a quote: > [@](#): > > Below is the list of people who have staked their reputations on the only paper which passed the scrutiny of peer review regarding the WTC tragedy… > > For those who may think that no one has written a peer reviewed paper on the collapse of the towers here it is… > > "Walter P. Murphy Professor of > > Civil Engineering and Materials Science > > Northwestern University > > The towers of the World Trade Center were designed to withstand as a whole the horizontal impact of a large commercial aircraft. So why did a total collapse occur? The reason is the dynamic consequence of the prolonged heating of the steel columns to very high temperature. The heating caused creep buckling of the columns of the framed tube along the perimeter of the structure, which transmits the vertical load to the ground. The likely scenario of failure may be explained as follows… > > [http://www-math.mit.edu/~bazant/WTC/WTC-asce.pdf](http://www-math.mit.edu/~bazant/WTC/WTC-asce.pdf) > > The version linked above, to appear in the Journal of Engineering Mechanics (ASCE), was revised and extended (with Yong Zhou on September 22 and additional appendices on September 28) since the original text of September 13, which was immediately posted at various civil engineering web sites, e.g. University of Illinios. It also has been or soon will be published in a number of other journals, including Archives of Applied Mechanics, Studi i Ricerche, and SIAM News: > > Z. P. Bazant and Y. Zhou, “Why Did the World Trade Center Collapse?”, Society for Industrial and Applied Mathematics News, vol. 34, No. 8 (October, 2001). > > That means it’s not just a document, book, web site or calculation on a forum. It’s had to pass critical review by other engineering Professors. > > I know there are CT sites which attack this paper but not one person has yet to disprove its hypothesis professionally. There are still people attacking the theory of evolution. Anyone can attack, not many can produce a paper to back it up. Just as there is no “theory of intelligent design” except on Christian web sites, there are no alternatives to this paper other than in CT sites and books." > > [Why did the World Trade Center towers collapse?](http://www-math.mit.edu/~bazant/WTC/) > > The paper… [http://www-math.mit.edu/~bazant/WTC/WTC-asce.pdf](http://www-math.mit.edu/~bazant/WTC/WTC-asce.pdf) > > [http://www.pubs.asce.org/journals/edem.html](http://www.pubs.asce.org/journals/edem.html) > > Editor: > > Ross B. Corotis, Ph.D., P.E., S.E., NAE, University of Colorado, Boulder > corotis@colorado.edu > > [http://ceae.colorado.edu/new/faculty/people/people.cgi?corotis](http://ceae.colorado.edu/new/faculty/people/people.cgi?corotis) > > Editorial Board: > > Younane Abousleiman, Ph.D., University of Oklahoma [Petroleum & Geological Engineering](http://mpge.ou.edu/faculty_staff/faculty.html) > > Ching S. Chang, Ph.D., P.E., University of Massachusetts [http://www.ecs.umass.edu/cee/faculty/chang.html](http://www.ecs.umass.edu/cee/faculty/chang.html) > > Joel P. Conte, Ph.D., P.E., University of California, San Diego > [http://kudu.ucsd.edu/](http://kudu.ucsd.edu/) > > Henri Gavin, Duke University > [Henri P. Gavin | Duke Civil and Environmental Engineering](http://www.cee.duke.edu/faculty/gavin/index.php) > > Bojan B. Guzina, University of Minnesota > [http://www.ce.umn.edu/people/faculty/guzina/](http://www.ce.umn.edu/people/faculty/guzina/) > > Christian Hellmich, Dr.Tech., Vienna University of Technology > [http://whitepages.tuwien.ac.at/oid/998877.html](http://whitepages.tuwien.ac.at/oid/998877.html) > > Lambros Katafygiotis, Ph.D., Hong Kong University of Science and Technology > [http://lambros.ce.ust.hk/](http://lambros.ce.ust.hk/) > > Nik Katopodes, Ph.D., University of Michigan > [http://www.engin.umich.edu/dept/cee/prospective/](http://www.engin.umich.edu/dept/cee/prospective/) > > Nicos Makris, University of Patras > [http://www.civil.upatras.gr/Melidep\_gr/depi\_en.asp?profid=5](http://www.civil.upatras.gr/Melidep_gr/depi_en.asp?profid=5) > > Robert J. Martinuzzi, P.E., University of Calgary > [Page Not Found](http://www.ucalgary.ca/pubs/calendar/2005/who/stafflists/academicAlpha.htm) > > Arif Masud, Ph.D., University of Illinois, Chicago > [http://www.uic.edu/depts/bioe/faculty/core\_faculty\_list.htm](http://www.uic.edu/depts/bioe/faculty/core_faculty_list.htm) > > Arvid Naess, Ph.D., Norwegian University of Science and Technology > [http://www.bygg.ntnu.no/~arvidn/front.htm](http://www.bygg.ntnu.no/~arvidn/front.htm) > > Khaled W. Shahwan, Daimler Chrysler Corporation > [http://www.pubs.asce.org/WWWdisplay.cgi?9800592](http://www.pubs.asce.org/WWWdisplay.cgi?9800592) > > George Voyiadjis, Ph.D., EIT, Louisiana State University > [http://www.cee.lsu.edu/facultyStaff/Voyiadjis\_George/Voyiadjis\_Gbio.htm](http://www.cee.lsu.edu/facultyStaff/Voyiadjis_George/Voyiadjis_Gbio.htm) > > Yunping Xi, Ph.D., University of Colorado > [http://ceae.colorado.edu/new/faculty/people/people.cgi?xi](http://ceae.colorado.edu/new/faculty/people/people.cgi?xi) > > Engineering Mechanics Division Executive Committee > > Alexander D. Cheng, Ph.D., M.ASCE, Chair > [Alexander Cheng Homepage](http://home.olemiss.edu/~acheng/) > > James L. Beck, Ph.D., M.ASCE > [James L. Beck](http://www.its.caltech.edu/~jimbeck/) > > Roger G. Ghanem, Ph.D., M.ASCE > [http://ame-www.usc.edu/personnel/ghanem/index.shtml](http://ame-www.usc.edu/personnel/ghanem/index.shtml) > > Wilfred D. Iwan, M.ASCE > [http://www.eas.caltech.edu/fac\_i-m.html#i](http://www.eas.caltech.edu/fac_i-m.html#i) > > Chiang C. Mei, M.ASCE > [http://cee.mit.edu/index.pl?id=2354&isa=Category&op=show](http://cee.mit.edu/index.pl?id=2354&isa=Category&op=show) > > Verna L. Jameson, ASCE Staff Contact > > Journal of Engineering Mechanics You can click on the actual paper [here](http://www-math.mit.edu/~bazant/WTC/WTC-asce.pdf). Giving me a link to a page in the thread with a drive-by link to a page that purports to have peer reviewed papers in support of the A&E folks if I take the time to dig through them to determine (from a bunch of folks who have already been shown to play fast and loose with the change) A) if the papers have in fact been peer reviewed or even submitted for peer review and B) if the papers even exist at all is a bit of a stretch. If you want to use them as evidence of something, at least have the courtesy to read your own citations, pick out the things you think support your case, link to them and quote the relevant parts. > [@](#): > > Like I said their response to the Popular Mechanics book is from 2012. And what did you find compelling in their debunkment? Which parts do you suppose makes your case or the cases that 9/11 was a controlled demo or part of a government conspiracy? > [@](#): > > So there I replied to XT. I guess now people will see that as evidence that I haven’t learnt anything. I see it as an evasive answer that relies on people to click on your drive-by links, then sift through the crap to try and figure out what point you were trying to make…which, in reality, means you are relying on people to play your game. Sadly, for you it’s pretty obvious that you are playing a game, most if not all of the things you’ve linked to have been addressed in the past and you aren’t even trying to defend whatever position you have on this, which you are evasive on as well (which is nothing new either, as we have had all sorts of Truther CT types here, including the JAQing off type who don’t REALLY believe in the 9/11 CTs but are just asking questions about them…). If you would like to discuss your PM debunkment link, feel free to write about the parts you find compelling and quote the relevent sections and I’ll be glad to address them (for about the 4th time if my memory is correct from past threads), otherwise let’s see your next hand wave or drive-by. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2016, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/223 "2016-08-09T17:04:24Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > Since you’ve been asking about building 7, here’s a picture of it on that day: > [Photo Storage](http://s52.photobucket.com/user/bajitar/media/WTC/wtc7nbc00001az0.jpg.html) > > Here is a video showing heavy smoke pouring out of every floor of the building: > > > They’re lying when they say it had fire on only 2-3 floors. [At least a dozen](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=12722351#post12722351) or 40% of the building. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2016, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/224 "2016-08-09T21:41:29Z")
> [@XT](#): > > …I see it as an evasive answer that relies on people to click on your drive-by links, then sift through the crap to try and figure out what point you were trying to make… That sounds like what some others were doing here too except most people who said to look in the old threads didn’t give any links. About the rest of your reply “well that’s all irrelevant, I don’t believe in it anymore”. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2016, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/225 "2016-08-09T22:18:31Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > That sounds like what some others were doing here too except most people who said to look in the old threads didn’t give any links. About the rest of your reply “well that’s all irrelevant, I don’t believe in it anymore”. Well…ok then. Ignorance fought I suppose. Stick around for the next installment…it’s like sunrise that in a month or so (or a day or a week) another 9/11 Truther will come in posting a link to a Must See! site (that will almost certainly be years or even a decade out of date) or video to open our eyes and show us the light about what REALLY happened on 9/11! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2016, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/226 "2016-08-10T00:20:37Z")
You know what? Enough. Everyone head to your respective corners and come back in a few days. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917.md?page=11)