# "Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 6, 2016, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917 "2016-08-06T07:26:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/21 "2016-08-06T09:22:13Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > To which a two-part question is in order; > > 1. Have you actually ever seen a controlled explosion? > 2. Have you ever actually seen the WTC collapse? No in the same way that I haven’t seen a moon landing in person. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/22 "2016-08-06T10:11:02Z")
They left because they weren’t interested in ‘facts’. Consensus had nothing to do with it. Why should anyone engage with you, when you can’t be arsed to read the previous threads? If you want to know our beliefs, read the threads! ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/23 "2016-08-06T10:30:14Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > They left because they weren’t interested in ‘facts’. Consensus had nothing to do with it. Ok so you “know” what the “facts” are… > [@](#): > > Why should anyone engage with you, when you can’t be arsed to read the previous threads? Well I wasn’t provided with ANY specific links. I guess because there are just so many threads about an argument that the “overwhelming consensus” “know” is just “conspiracy theory nonsense on par with the Illuminati” > [@](#): > > If you want to know our beliefs, read the threads! Ok I found this from 6 years ago: > **[Facebook-postable explanation of Building 7 on 9/11 please](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=577893)** > > I’ve got an otherwise intelligent friend who, it turns out, buys into some conspiracy theory or other based on concerns about how building seven collapsed. “Why did building 7 fall into its own footprint at free fall speed? That building was not hit... “Facebook-postable explanation of Building 7 on 9/11 please” BTW this is a “Great Debates” forum… I thought it would be where people could debate arguments not just keep on saying things like look up the threads yourself. Anyway I thought reopening a thread from 6 years ago would be discouraged. tomndebb wrote: “The issues surrounding WTC 7 have been argued lots of times on the SDMB.” Surely someone could sum up the main arguments? BTW he also said “Also, recall that THIS thread is in General Questions, so please refrain from attempting to debate any issues in this thread: open a new thread in Great Debates for that purpose.” That implies that it isn’t a “factual” question. gonzomax and perhaps others were disagreeing with the “overwhelming consensus” and at that time he had been a member for over 4 years. Someone in the thread gave this link about Building 7 which I’ll check out: [http://www.debunking911.com/pull.htm](http://www.debunking911.com/pull.htm) ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/24 "2016-08-06T10:43:40Z")
“9/11 Rumors and Conspiracy Theories - The ten most widely circulated rumors and conspiracy theories associated with the 9/11 terrorist attacks.” > **[Top Ten 9/11 Rumors and Conspiracy Theories](https://www.snopes.com/news/2014/09/11/911-rumors-and-conspiracy-theories/)** > > The ten most widely circulated rumors and conspiracy theories associated with the 9/11 terrorist attacks. Doesn’t seem to have ANY mention of a controlled demolition or related issues. The Straight Dope column doesn’t seem to talk about WTC conspiracy theories though it does assert “Yes, they walked on the moon” > **[Was the Apollo moon landing a hoax?](https://www.straightdope.com/21342896/was-the-apollo-moon-landing-a-hoax)** > > A STAFF REPORT FROM THE STRAIGHT DOPE SCIENCE ADVISORY BOARD and it talks about secret societies > **[Do secret societies control everything?](https://www.straightdope.com/21344200/do-secret-societies-control-everything)** It seems odd that it seems to not mention an issue that has been debated so much on these forums. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/25 "2016-08-06T10:50:22Z")
OP: How is this not “JAQ”? ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/26 "2016-08-06T10:52:35Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > OP: How is this not “JAQ”? I’m also debating people who immediately dismiss my concerns. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/27 "2016-08-06T10:57:43Z")
I’ve been looking at the link to a “Debunking 911” page: > **[debunking911.com - contact with domain owner | Epik.com](https://debunking911.com/pull.htm)** > > Contact with an owner of debunking911.com domain name. It isn’t very professional - the site in the OP is far more professional and has a lot more people involved. So there’s that link and the Popular Mechanics book for a start… ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/28 "2016-08-06T11:00:37Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > I haven’t read much about it but it seems unlikely that 3/3 buildings would collapse in a way that appears to be a controlled explosion (visually). **In movies buildings don’t collapse like that at all.** bolding mine. Of course they don’t. You can tell movies from reality, can’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/29 "2016-08-06T11:13:47Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > I’ve been looking at the link to a “Debunking 911” page: > [http://www.debunking911.com/pull.htm](http://www.debunking911.com/pull.htm) > > It isn’t very professional - the site in the OP is far more professional and has a lot more people involved. I recall seeing a presentation by an LHC scientist that used comic sans and shitty clipart. It looked like a 12 year-old had thrown it together and yet it contained flights of genius that the 9-11 conspiracy theorists can barely comprehend. “slick” does not equal “worthy” otherwise we’d all be lauding timeshare con-artists to the high heavens. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/30 "2016-08-06T11:19:17Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I recall seeing a presentation by an LHC scientist that used comic sans and shitty clipart. > It looked like a 12 year-old had thrown it together and yet it contained flights of genius that the 9-11 conspiracy theorists can barely comprehend. > > “slick” does not equal “worthy” otherwise we’d all be lauding timeshare con-artists to the high heavens. Well I don’t think [debunking911.com](http://debunking911.com) is mentioned on Wikipedia while the organisation in the OP has quite a large Wikipedia article: [Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Architects_%26_Engineers_for_9/11_Truth) ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/31 "2016-08-06T11:27:38Z")
I’m going to check out s3e3 of Penn and Teller’s “Bullshit” which mentions 9/11 conspiracy theories. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/32 "2016-08-06T11:31:12Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > bolding mine. > > Of course they don’t. You can tell movies from reality, can’t you? Well the CGI of collapsing buildings is getting pretty realistic… ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/33 "2016-08-06T12:09:47Z")
I was wondering, do controlled demolitions have explosives anywhere else besides the base of the building because it looks like the first WTC tower had the “explosions” happening in the middle of the building. I haven’t seen all of the “Penn and Teller’s Bullshit” Conspiracy episode but an interesting part was when they said that according to a poll **49.3%** of New Yorkers believe that our leaders knew that the 9/11 attacks were planned and they intentionally failed to act. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/34 "2016-08-06T12:09:57Z")
> **[9/11](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/9-11)** > > On September 11, 2001, the Islamist terrorist organization al-Qaeda, led by Osama bin Laden, executed a plan in which a group of nineteen men,\[note 1\] mainly from Saudi Arabia, hijacked four passenger airplanes to crash two into the Twin Towers of... ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/35 "2016-08-06T12:14:55Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > [9/11 - RationalWiki](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/9-11) Thanks! This part is relevant: > [@](#): > > …Rebuttal: While the idea of a giant building toppling over like a felled tree is popular in fiction, in reality the structure is designed to bear its weight straight down and in no other direction; throwing a massive building severely out of equilibrium would cause it to fall almost vertically, no matter what direction the initial force was applied from. … That was a major issue I had… ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/36 "2016-08-06T13:27:51Z")
At this point, there is no debate; there is no concern. There is no mystery as to what happened with the terrorist attacks on September 11, 2001. There is also no mystery as to who perpetrated the assassination of Kennedy, nor is there any mystery about the Moon landing. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/37 "2016-08-06T14:04:47Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > I haven’t seen all of the “Penn and Teller’s Bullshit” Conspiracy episode but an interesting part was when they said that according to a poll **49.3%** of New Yorkers believe that our leaders knew that the 9/11 attacks were planned and they intentionally failed to act. The Bush administration had a counter-terrorism advisor (Richard A. Clarke) who was adamant in early 2001 about a pending attack. He spent a lot of time trying to bring it to cabinet-level attention and was basically told to shut up about it. A month later, 9/11. There’s nothing secret about this and nothing conspiratory - the Bush administration just assumed it couldn’t happen to them. Also, the OP should be figuring out by now that yes there was a conspiracy and we are all in on it. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/38 "2016-08-06T14:26:03Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > That [the way the buildings fell] was a major issue I had… That information was readily available to you. All you had to do was look for it. I don’t understand why you feel that it is impossible for you to spend as much time looking for and studying the case against “9/11 Truth” as you did in swallowing hook, line, and sinker the crackpot theory. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/39 "2016-08-06T14:34:40Z")
Yes, the destruction of the three buildings looked a lot like controlled demolitions. This doesn’t mean anything, though, unless you first establish that failures due to heavy impacts and jet-fuel fires do not look like controlled demolitions. In reality, failures due to heavy impacts and jet-fuel fires look a great deal like controlled demolitions, because the constraints imposed by the laws of physics pretty much only allow for one possible way for large buildings to fall. Computer graphics, meanwhile, can be created in a way that’s consistent with the laws of physics, but quite often aren’t, because filmmakers care only about what looks cool on screen, and not one whit about what’s actually realistic. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/40 "2016-08-06T14:53:16Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > But what pressure is there for these architects and engineers to be in this organisation? Pressure on the brain. Either that, or they were hired by Bin Laden to destabilize the USA through conspiracy nuttery. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917.md?page=3)