# "Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 6, 2016, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917 "2016-08-06T07:26:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/61 "2016-08-06T22:24:05Z")
BTW according to the first Zeitgeist movie: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/pTbIu8Zeqp0/maxresdefault.jpg "ZEITGEIST: THE MOVIE | 2007 (HD)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTbIu8Zeqp0&t=53m35s) > [@](#): > > When Bush and Cheney met with the 911 Commission, they did so only on their own terms: > > - They appeared together > - They were not under oath > - No press or family members were allowed to attend > - No recording of any kind was allowed And “if a single commissioner had any objection about anything, that fact would be dropped from the report.” Are those things true? Those things were a major reason I became skeptical about the official 9/11 story. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/62 "2016-08-06T22:25:27Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > How about…say what you really think, and say why you really think it. Well like I said I thought the official story for Building 7 didn’t make sense because it seemed that some fires couldn’t explain how cleanly it fell. > [@](#): > > You’re now in the mode of answering questions with questions. That didn’t work out too well for Socrates, and it doesn’t work particularly well here, either. But I have questions…! If I created another thread to ask the questions I might get topic banned again… ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/63 "2016-08-06T22:28:24Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > Well like I said I thought the official story for Building 7 didn’t make sense because it seemed that some fires couldn’t explain how cleanly it fell. > But I have questions…! If I created another thread to ask the questions I might get topic banned again… It has been brought up several times that we have covered all this in many previous threads. Do you have any plans to peruse those threads to get your answers? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/64 "2016-08-06T22:30:41Z")
Many conspiracy theorists (such as a particular family member of mine) share one characteristic in common: They hold the “official story” to the strictest of standards, claiming that even one flaw or discrepancy discredits it all, while holding their own narrative to the loosest of standards. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/65 "2016-08-06T22:30:48Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > Well like I said I thought the official story for Building 7 didn’t make sense because it seemed that some fires couldn’t explain how cleanly it fell. Why doesn’t it make sense? What do you know about building fires that would make you think it doesn’t make sense? This is a board full of skeptics, contrarians, and radical thinkers. If there was something more to the WTC building collapses you’d get the straight dope on it here. It doesn’t mean it’s the final word on the subject, you’ll find out what the known evidence is and what reasonable conclusion can be drawn from it. You won’t find that on any CT board. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/66 "2016-08-06T22:53:21Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > It has been brought up several times that we have covered all this in many previous threads. Do you have any plans to peruse those threads to get your answers? I have never been provided with any links to previous threads so it would be up to me to find the appropriate threads. I did find a thread specifically about Building 7 though which didn’t address all of the issues so I’d still have questions/concerns. Though now I know of good links such as [this one](http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/11-09-07/#feature) ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/67 "2016-08-06T22:56:10Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Why doesn’t it make sense? What do you know about building fires that would make you think it doesn’t make sense?.. Well if the fires cause some of the structure to collapse I’d expect just the parts near the fire to collapse then gradually the collapsing would spread to nearby areas, not relatively evenly across the whole floors of the building at once. But that was my former opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/68 "2016-08-06T22:57:01Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > BTW according to the first Zeitgeist movie: > [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTbIu8Zeqp0&feature=youtu.be&t=53m35s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTbIu8Zeqp0&feature=youtu.be&t=53m35s) > > And “if a single commissioner had any objection about anything, that fact would be dropped from the report.” > > Are those things true? Those things were a major reason I became skeptical about the official 9/11 story. Some people _do_ have questions concerning warnings of terrorist activity received before 9/11. And about the immediate response (And, of course the later response: “Let’s invade Iraq!”) Yes, the conditions in which Bush/Cheney agreed to answer questions seem peculiar to some. Has the investigation of “Benghazi” been more intense? None of these concerns question the _fact_ that three jets crashed into buildings on 9/11. And one crashed in the countryside… ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/69 "2016-08-06T23:00:03Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Many conspiracy theorists (such as a particular family member of mine) share one characteristic in common: They hold the “official story” to the strictest of standards, claiming that even one flaw or discrepancy discredits it all, while holding their own narrative to the loosest of standards. Actually I became intrigued by this due to it seeming that there were dozens of problems with the official story. BlakeTyner talked about people moving the goalposts - that is because even if one problem is explained away, many more seem to remain. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/70 "2016-08-06T23:05:54Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > …Yes, the conditions in which Bush/Cheney agreed to answer questions seem peculiar to some… BTW insisting that they be there together would mean that it would be easier for them to make sure their stories don’t conflict with each others. Are there good reasons that the following had to have been done? "- They were not under oath - No press or family members were allowed to attend - No recording of any kind was allowed" Remember that this is about 3000 Americans being killed and “49.3% of New Yorkers believe that our leaders knew that the 9/11 attacks were planned and they intentionally failed to act”. If they wanted to help change the results of that poll they shouldn’t have been so suspicious about the conditions. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/71 "2016-08-06T23:13:52Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > …But that’s not what happened with the WTC towers. They didn’t collapse starting at the base, like a controlled demolition. They collapsed from the top down. That’s exactly opposite of how a controlled demolition occurs. The collapses start from the plane impact sites. How’s that supposed to work if you’ve filled the building with explosives? See that’s a great answer. More convincing then just saying that it has already been “refuted” many times without giving any links. > [@](#): > > …Hey, if you want to believe conspiracy theories about how Cheney and Bush knew the attack was coming, and let it happen on purpose, at least that doesn’t violate the laws of physics… good point ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/72 "2016-08-06T23:15:21Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > BTW according to the first Zeitgeist movie: > [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTbIu8Zeqp0&feature=youtu.be&t=53m35s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTbIu8Zeqp0&feature=youtu.be&t=53m35s) > > And “if a single commissioner had any objection about anything, that fact would be dropped from the report.” > > Are those things true? Those things were a major reason I became skeptical about the official 9/11 story. Those were examples of Bush and Cheney being assholes, 🙂 but the main reason mentioned then for that was that secret stuff was going to be discussed, but the general information obtained was mentioned in the final report with the secret stuff removed; AFAIK not much than what was already known. If there was I do think that the Democrats in the comission would had by hook or by crook revealed any big whoppers that Bush and Cheney would had commited in that meeting. As the debunking9/11 site did tell you it is ok to distrust Bush for using the terror attack as a way to invade Iraq and make the mess we have now. But it is not reasonable to think Bush did cause 9/11. As for the Zeitgeist movie. You really do lose many points for relying on pure trash: > **[Zeitgeist](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Zeitgeist)** > > Zeitgeist\[note 1\] is an amateurishly-produced made-for-the-Internet conspiracy-mongering film. > [@](#): > > Zeitgeist[1] is an amateurishly-produced made-for-the-Internet conspiracy-mongering film. It combines some discussion of Jesus mythicism (the position that Jesus was a myth forged from the ideas of previous religions and Gods like Isis, Osiris etc.) with a double-barreled shotgun blast of crazy: income tax denial, the Federal Reserve being an elaborate plot by the international bankers to take over the world, 9/11 being a conspiracy, and we are all going to have barcodes tattooed onto us and get chipped with RFID tags. All fairly standard conspiracy stuff put together in an ultimately disjointed way. The whole movie is a ripoff of Jordan Maxwell’s research.[2] > > If you enjoy watching other people’s paranoid delusions with cheap CGI graphics interspersed, you can watch the whole thing online. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/73 "2016-08-06T23:21:07Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > I have never been provided with any links to previous threads so it would be up to me to find the appropriate threads. I did find a thread specifically about Building 7 though which didn’t address all of the issues so I’d still have questions/concerns. Though now I know of good links such as [this one](http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/11-09-07/#feature) [Why did the conspirators blow up 7 World Trade Center](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=684511&highlight=9%2F11) [9/11](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=774194&highlight=9%2F11) [Was 9/11 an inside job?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=703502&highlight=9%2F11) ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/74 "2016-08-06T23:28:00Z")
[9/11 wreckage](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=502056&highlight=9%2F11) [9/11 was an inside job](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=655599&highlight=9%2F11) [9/11](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=658397&highlight=9%2F11) [9/11 - Pentagon hit - Where are the plane parts?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=584675&highlight=9%2F11) [Give me your 9/11 conspiracy theories! And/or their debunking](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=518232&highlight=9%2F11) [What’s Bush hiding about 9/11?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=116737&highlight=9%2F11) [The WTC Twin Towers Were **Pulverized** on 9/11](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=422969&highlight=9%2F11) [Plane or no Plane? [Pentagon 9/11 (ed. title)]](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=377014&highlight=9%2F11) [9/11 Conspiracy Theories!](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=364515&highlight=9%2F11) [Loose Change video: 9/11 conspiracy](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=357264&highlight=9%2F11) [Is there video footage of the 9/11 plane into the Pentagon?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=354471&highlight=9%2F11) Note. This was just the threads with 9/11 in the title in Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/75 "2016-08-06T23:34:00Z")
> [@DWMarch](#): > > The Bush administration had a counter-terrorism advisor (Richard A. Clarke) who was adamant in early 2001 about a pending attack. He spent a lot of time trying to bring it to cabinet-level attention and was basically told to shut up about it. A month later, 9/11. There’s nothing secret about this and nothing conspiratory - the Bush administration just assumed it couldn’t happen to them… So are you saying it is true that “our leaders knew that the 9/11 attacks were planned and they intentionally failed to act”? (or might have been planned) In Penn and Teller’s Bullshit, it says “are 49.3% of us just f\*\*\*ing crazy?” ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/76 "2016-08-06T23:34:11Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > I really really wish people would say that the collapse “looked like a controlled demolition”. That’s about the dumbest thing I’ve heard. I hear ya man. Tell it to [these](https://youtu.be/noGH877SfUE) guys. Wish they would just wise up. > [@Lemur866](#): > > But that’s not what happened with the WTC towers. They didn’t collapse starting at the base, like a controlled demolition. They collapsed from the top down. That’s exactly opposite of how a controlled demolition occurs. The collapses start from the plane impact sites. How’s that supposed to work if you’ve filled the building with explosives? Is it impossible to plan a controlled demolition that starts near the top and is timed to blow out the floors below? (I’m trying to suggest that such a demolition is not impossible or ludicrous, just much harder to successfully pull off.) ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/77 "2016-08-06T23:35:05Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > BTW insisting that they be there together would mean that it would be easier for them to make sure their stories don’t conflict with each others. Are there good reasons that the following had to have been done? > "- They were not under oath > > - No press or family members were allowed to attend > - No recording of any kind was allowed" > > Remember that this is about 3000 Americans being killed and “49.3% of New Yorkers believe that our leaders knew that the 9/11 attacks were planned and they intentionally failed to act”. If they wanted to help change the results of that poll they shouldn’t have been so suspicious about the conditions. None of which has anything to do with whether the towers fell because they were hit by jets–which _you_ are questioning. Might the Cheney/Bush Administration have been a \*bit \*more careful after receiving warnings of terrorist activity? Perhaps. Is Cheney an evil creep & was Bush his puppet? Of course–that’s common knowledge. (And, really. This has all been discussed in detail. Are you usually this slow?) ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/78 "2016-08-06T23:39:37Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Those were examples of Bush and Cheney being assholes, 🙂 but the main reason mentioned then for that was that secret stuff was going to be discussed, I don’t think that explains: - They appeared together (to me that implies they wanted to make sure their stories matched) - They were not under oath - No recording of any kind was allowed Including no transcript. “the general information obtained was mentioned in the final report with the secret stuff removed”. They could have made a full transcript then censored some parts. > [@](#): > > As the debunking9/11 site did tell you it is ok to distrust Bush for using the terror attack as a way to invade Iraq and make the mess we have now. But it is not reasonable to think Bush did cause 9/11. Ok. > [@](#): > > As for the Zeitgeist movie. You really do lose many points for relying on pure trash: Well the first section about Christianity is pure trash. But in the 9/11 section it brought up issues like what I am discussing in this post and that specific part seems to be accurate. (no one has been disputing it) ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/79 "2016-08-06T23:42:27Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > [9/11 wreckage](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=502056&highlight=9%2F11) > [9/11 was an inside job](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=655599&highlight=9%2F11) > [9/11](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=658397&highlight=9%2F11) > [9/11 - Pentagon hit - Where are the plane parts?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=584675&highlight=9%2F11) > [Give me your 9/11 conspiracy theories! And/or their debunking](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=518232&highlight=9%2F11) > [What’s Bush hiding about 9/11?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=116737&highlight=9%2F11) > [The WTC Twin Towers Were **Pulverized** on 9/11](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=422969&highlight=9%2F11) > [Plane or no Plane? [Pentagon 9/11 (ed. title)]](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=377014&highlight=9%2F11) > [9/11 Conspiracy Theories!](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=364515&highlight=9%2F11) > [Loose Change video: 9/11 conspiracy](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=357264&highlight=9%2F11) > [Is there video footage of the 9/11 plane into the Pentagon?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=354471&highlight=9%2F11) > Note. This was just the threads with 9/11 in the title in Great Debates. Finally some links but none of them seem to be focused on the specific issues I raised like Building 7. I did find a thread about Building 7 myself though, which I mentioned. Like I said it didn’t address all of my concerns but links to other sites seem to cover it but I haven’t read the contents of those sites fully yet. Posts, such as post 53 are much more helpful. Or giving one link to a relevant thread rather than heaps where many might not even address my specific concerns at all. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/80 "2016-08-06T23:43:21Z")
There’s going to be inconsistencies in any theory trying to describe what happened on 9/11/2001. However, to spin up a proper crackpot theory, we have to have at least 5% inconsistency. Believe me, if it was there, I’d have long ago exploited it. **JohnClay** … if you please … can I have the the basic premise of how these buildings were brought down if it wasn’t a commercial jet full of av-gas? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917.md?page=5)