# "Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 6, 2016, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917 "2016-08-06T07:26:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/81 "2016-08-06T23:46:49Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > Finally some links but none of them seem to be focused on the specific issues I raised like Building 7. I did find a thread about Building 7 myself though, which I mentioned. Like I said it didn’t address all of my concerns but links to other sites seem to cover it but I haven’t read the contents of those sites fully yet. > > Posts, such as post 53 are much more helpful. Or giving one link to a relevant thread rather than heaps where many might not even address my specific concerns at all. So you’re not actually interested in learning unless it’s spoonfed to you. Got it. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/82 "2016-08-06T23:47:17Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > Well the first section about Christianity is pure trash. But in the 9/11 section it brought up issues like what I am discussing in this post and that specific part seems to be accurate. (no one has been disputing it) Because it has nothing to do with the OP. And yes, I have to say also that the movie is wrong because it is trying to use that as evidence of the big conspiracy and that 9/11 was an inside job. Not a healty thing to do as you are using baseless conclusions and attempting to make them fit with the facts. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/83 "2016-08-06T23:48:58Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > None of which has anything to do with whether the towers fell because they were hit by jets–which _you_ are questioning. I didn’t claim that those things are good evidence that there was a controlled demolition. I said those Bush/Cheney conditions “were a major reason I became skeptical about the official 9/11 story”. I mean it caused me to look into the conspiracy theories, not necessarily believe them. > [@](#): > > Might the Cheney/Bush Administration have been a \*bit \*more careful after receiving warnings of terrorist activity? Perhaps. Is Cheney an evil creep & was Bush his puppet? Of course–that’s common knowledge. > > (And, really. This has all been discussed in detail. Are you usually this slow?) Well some people in this thread are helpful in that they give answers rather than just keep telling me to look in the other threads. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/84 "2016-08-06T23:51:44Z")
Are you confusing the events of that day with the administration sheltering Saudi Arabia from any blame? Those are two separate issues. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/85 "2016-08-06T23:52:54Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > Posts, such as post 53 are much more helpful. Or giving one link to a relevant thread rather than heaps where many might not even address my specific concerns at all. I have looked at many skeptics before and participated in many of those threads; believe me, there is nothing new that you have brought here in this thread so far. Even the usual of not stopping for a moment to **accept** what was explained before and continue to post as if nothing was cited before is showing a lot in your posts so far. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/86 "2016-08-06T23:53:06Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > So you’re not actually interested in learning unless it’s spoonfed to you. > Got it. I’m saying that some people’s posts are more useful to me than others. And yes I prefer a good link to a website specifically covering my concerns point by point. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/87 "2016-08-06T23:53:16Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > So you’re not actually interested in learning unless it’s spoonfed to you. > Got it. I wouldn’t even object to the spoonfeeding…if it weren’t for the somewhat predictable response, which we have seen a dozen times in the past. 1: Easy question. 2: Simple answer. 3: “But that doesn’t explain…” (And the Great Pyramid was built by water-geysers…) ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/88 "2016-08-06T23:56:02Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > I have looked at many skeptics before and participated in many of those threads; believe me, there is nothing new that you have brought here in this thread so far… So some people are saying I should just read heaps of those threads while others are giving me answers. Because some me are providing me the answers I’m looking for I don’t need to read through all of those threads. Also if I had a question to one of those old threads people might not like me reopening a long dead thread. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/89 "2016-08-06T23:57:03Z")
I think the biggest problem is that you are imagining buildings “tipping over”, not “collapsing”. Because you suspect that a building would fall sideways instead of straight down, it seems too tidy for it to just crumble the way they did. But first, you should note that the buildings did not collapse into a tidy space not much bigger than their own footprint. The further away you are, the more tidy and controlled the collapses appeared to be. One of the first hits I found to touch on this phenomenon is [here.](http://www.implosionworld.com/wtc.htm) > [@implosionworld.com](#): > > DID THE WORLD TRADE CENTER TOWERS ACTUALLY “IMPLODE”? > No. They collapsed in an uncontrolled fashion, causing extensive damage to surrounding structures, roadways and utilities. Although when viewed from a distance the towers appeared to have telescoped almost straight down, a closer look at video replays reveal sizeable portions of each building breaking free during the collapse, with the largest sections–some as tall as 30 or 40 stories–actually “laying out” in several directions. The outward failure of these sections is believed to have caused much of the significant damage to adjacent structures, and smaller debris caused structural and cosmetic damage to hundreds of additional buildings around the perimeter of the site. This actually makes sense if you think about it. If any part of the building started to “lean” due to part of the support structure failing, your knee-jerk assumption is that it would continue to lean further and further in that direction, until the whole building is laid out sideways. However, the reality is that all the supporting structure is meant to resist force from directly above it, not at an angle. The more steep the “lean” is, the less effective the support is. As soon as the support fails, the only remaining force is a tremendous gravity pulling it straight down. The taller and heavier a building is, the more “straight down” pressure is applied to it, easily overwhelming any resistance once it starts collapsing. There would be plenty of debris flung about smashing up things far away from the main pile of rubble, but by and large, that pile of rubble would indeed be pretty much where the original footprint of the building stood. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/90 "2016-08-06T23:57:15Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > In movies buildings don’t collapse like that at all. Bruce Willis was busy that day, or he would have walked away from the burning WTC in slow motion. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/91 "2016-08-06T23:58:20Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > I wouldn’t even object to the spoonfeeding…if it weren’t for the somewhat predictable response, which we have seen a dozen times in the past. > > 1: Easy question. > 2: Simple answer. > 3: “But that doesn’t explain…” > > (And the Great Pyramid was built by water-geysers…) Well the OP site has 10 items of “key evidence” > **[Evidence Overview](https://www.ae911truth.org/evidence/evidence-overview)** > > AE911Truth is a nonprofit organization that represents more than 3,000 architects and engineers who are calling for a new investigation into the destruction of the World Trade Center Twin Towers and Building 7 on 9/11. so that’s quite a lot to refute though eventually I was given links to websites that address it… ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2016, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/92 "2016-08-07T00:04:08Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > I think the biggest problem is that you are imagining buildings “tipping over”, not “collapsing”. Because you suspect that a building would fall sideways instead of straight down, it seems too tidy for it to just crumble the way they did… Exactly. > [@](#): > > But first, you should note that the buildings did not collapse into a tidy space not much bigger than their own footprint… If I still thought that explosives were involved I’d mention posts 48 and 49 and say that’s why it wasn’t completely tidy. > [@](#): > > This actually makes sense if you think about it. If any part of the building started to “lean” due to part of the support structure failing, your knee-jerk assumption is that it would continue to lean further and further in that direction, until the whole building is laid out sideways. Yes that was my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2016, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/93 "2016-08-07T00:05:35Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > I’m saying that some people’s posts are more useful to me than others. And yes I prefer a good link to a website specifically covering my concerns point by point. Sorry, but using the Zeitgeist movie as a point does not lead to take your concern very seriously. You do need to realize that it is just your opinion that the concerns you are bringing were not dealt before with. That most experts and engineers agree that it was not a controlled demolition and the planes and the fires they caused were the reason of the collapses is just about the first item that you should accept so as to not sound insulting to the ones you are claiming to ask for help in this issue. Just a thought. [http://www.debunking911.com/pull.htm](http://www.debunking911.com/pull.htm) ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2016, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/94 "2016-08-07T00:06:29Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > Well the OP site has 10 items of “key evidence” > [Evidence Overview | AE911Truth](http://www.ae911truth.org/news/evidence.html) > so that’s quite a lot to refute though eventually I was given links to websites that address it… The first, rapid destruction … is patently false … plane hits, over an hour to bring the building down … how is this “rapid”? ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2016, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/95 "2016-08-07T00:06:33Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > so that’s quite a lot to refute though eventually I was given links to websites that address it… Well, yes, they hope if they toss enough shit at the wall, some of it will stick. In this case, none of it does, and the sheer quantity of bullshit involved should not be taken as a proxy for quality, nor does it make that bullshit smell any sweeter. There are tons of 9/11 threads that can be found by simple searches (for example, using “world trade center” brings up several). It is absolutely NOT asking too much that you put in the minimal work of doing so, rather than asking other posters do this work for you. You’ve been on the board long enough to know how things work around here. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2016, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/96 "2016-08-07T00:07:45Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > … **JohnClay** … if you please … can I have the the basic premise of how these buildings were brought down if it wasn’t a commercial jet full of av-gas? Well I thought they said it was nano-thermite explosives that caused them to fall in a way that appears to the layman to be like a controlled demolition. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2016, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/97 "2016-08-07T00:10:50Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > So some people are saying I should just read heaps of those threads while others are giving me answers. Because some me are providing me the answers I’m looking for I don’t need to read through all of those threads. Also if I had a question to one of those old threads people might not like me reopening a long dead thread. By your own words… You already told me that you found what I linked to to be useful, in this very same thread. The real question is, useful for what? So stop being insulting, I will only then realize that others are correct and you are only wasting my time and the time of others. The take home lesson is that indeed, you should read those heaps and accept the answers of others. I have found that there are no shortcuts to learning, unless you do not want to. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2016, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/98 "2016-08-07T00:11:08Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > Yes that was my opinion. What’s your opinion now? Do you think terrorists flying airplanes into the WTC buildings is what caused them to fall? If not, then what? Try to be succinct, and avoid saying what you think \*didn’t \*happen. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2016, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/99 "2016-08-07T00:11:46Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > Well I thought they said it was nano-thermite explosives that caused them to fall in a way that appears to the layman to be like a controlled demolition. Please define “nano-thermite explosive” … the key feature to thermite is that it is _non-explosive_ … you have a made-up word here so I’m appreciate a definition. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2016, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917/100 "2016-08-07T00:11:47Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > There are tons of 9/11 threads that can be found by simple searches (for example, using “world trade center” brings up several). It is absolutely NOT asking too much that you put in the minimal work of doing so, rather than asking other posters do this work for you. You’ve been on the board long enough to know how things work around here. Well I was only interesting in Building 7 and I found that thread myself. Also it seems some people are happy to give me answers or provide links to good sites. If you don’t want to do that why not just not say anything and let the others do it? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/architects-engineers-for-9-11-truth/761917.md?page=6)