# Arctic Sea Hijacking **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arctic-sea-hijacking/508300 "2009-08-31T00:28:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arctic-sea-hijacking/508300/21 "2009-09-04T00:59:56Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > Latest reports, including this [NY Times article](http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2009/08/19/world/international-us-ship-russia.html) are claiming the cargo was nuclear instead of the lumber listed. I’ll stick with a sensitive cargo, which could have been anything. The S-300 missile system is designed to be transported on Ro/Ro’s , so even if the ship was modified somehow, that does not mean it was for the sams. I doubt it was nuclear, as I cant see any country shipping material without a platoon of marines. Who knows, I am putting money on Metal Gear Solid > [@flickster](#): > > Whatever this vessel was carrying, is it still in the hold? If not, what happened to it? If Yulia’s suspicions are correct, how big of a concern? The article says that the ship is heading back to Russia , with a replacement crew, so what ever was on the manifest is probably still there, with a platoon of marines, lol. Declan ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arctic-sea-hijacking/508300/22 "2009-09-04T02:40:07Z")
**Alessan** , thanks for the follow-up article. I’m glad they stepped in and regained control of the missiles, if that is indeed what was in the vessel’s hold. If true, I guess the remaining question is how & why this shipment happened in the first place? Black market or Official weapons sale? ---
**Author:** ![Henrichek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5daacb/32.png) [@Henrichek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Henrichek)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arctic-sea-hijacking/508300/23 "2009-09-04T09:26:37Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > **Henrichek** is adamant that there’s nothing believable about the allegations that have been made.Well, this is like deja vu all over again, only not quite deja vu. > > We had [another thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=528924&highlight=organ+theft) here in just the past week (started by **Henrichek** ) regarding flimsy claims printed in a top Swedish newspaper that Israelis are stealing the body parts of Palestinians, and oddly enough **Henrichek** is a lot more ambivalent about that story.Can you say “double standard”? > > Maybe the lesson here is that speculation and rumor, no matter how short on facts, is defended much more easily if it fits one’s biases. 🙂 You really don’t see the difference? There’s an investigation going on here and I admit that there are suspicious things that haven’t yet been answered. Contrast that with the organ case where it’s all “blood libel!” and no investigation whatsoever. I do not dismiss the idea as impossible (though nearly so for nukes). Yulia’s ideas seemed to be based on pure speculation, while the Israeli paper’s investigation of this event might have some sources with real info, which you can see I am open for and haven’t dismissed. The same speculative ideas as Yulia is spouting were put out on day one of the hijacking when there was zero information available, and that’s why they shouldn’t be taken very seriously _yet_. The article linked above by **Alessan** is a slightly better analogue with the organ harvesting one, as they might have something to support their argument with, though I’d like to hear more about where they got the information from. Note that their mentioned X-500 missiles seem to be fictional as I haven’t found any other reference of their existence online. It also claims that the cargo was taken back to Russia by 8 cargo planes, while I haven’t found any reference that the Arctic Sea was taken to port anywhere to unload the cargo (or does anybody have a cite?). The hijackers were taken by cargo plane though, but I believe the number of planes brought were two or three. If you read the organ thread again, I believe you’ll find that I never really took those allegations seriously, but criticized the response of Israel. I did however not dismiss the allegations as impossible (which is the same stance as I have here), and raised some questions regarding journalistic standards of what’s enough “proof”. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arctic-sea-hijacking/508300/24 "2009-09-04T14:07:38Z")
You’d think they could find Cuba in this day and age! ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arctic-sea-hijacking/508300/25 "2009-09-06T12:42:30Z")
[Excellent:](http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article6823300.ece) > [@](#): > > A CARGO ship that vanished in the Channel was carrying arms to Iran and was being tracked by Mossad, the Israeli security service, according to sources in both Russia and Israel. > > The Arctic Sea, officially carrying a cargo of timber worth £1.3m, disappeared en route from Finland to Algeria on July 24. It was recovered off west Africa on August 17 when eight alleged hijackers were arrested. The Kremlin has consistently denied that the vessel was carrying a secret cargo. It claims the ship was hijacked by criminals who demanded a £1m ransom. > > The official version was challenged by sources in Tel Aviv and Moscow who claimed the ship had been loaded with S-300 missiles, Russia’s most advanced anti-aircraft weapon, while undergoing repairs in the Russian port of Kaliningrad. > > Mossad, which closely monitors arms supplies to Iran, is said to have tipped off the Russian government that the shipment had been sold by former military officers linked to the underworld. > > The Kremlin then ordered a naval rescue mission which involved destroyers and submarines. Any evidence that the Kremlin had let advanced weaponry fall into the hands of criminals or be sold to Iran would be highly embarrassing, so military officials believe a “cover story” was concocted. > > “The official version is ridiculous and was given to allow the Kremlin to save face,” said a Russian military source. “I’ve spoken to people close to the investigation and they’ve pretty much confirmed Mossad’s involvement. It’s laughable to believe all this fuss was over a load of timber. I’m not alone in believing that it was carrying weapons to Iran.” The whole article is well worth the read. ---
**Author:** ![Indian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@Indian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indian)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arctic-sea-hijacking/508300/26 "2009-09-18T14:55:21Z")
Hijackers were [mossad](http://www.gulfnews.com/opinion/columns/region/10349836.html) , says this article. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arctic-sea-hijacking/508300/27 "2009-09-23T05:53:00Z")
> [@indian](#): > > Hijackers were [mossad](http://www.gulfnews.com/opinion/columns/region/10349836.html) , says this article. Stopping the new anti-aircraft missiles sold to Iran would make sense. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arctic-sea-hijacking/508300/28 "2009-09-23T23:55:21Z")
If they are [S-300 missiles](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-300_(missile)#Specifications)they are 25 feet long and appear to be approx 2 feet in diameter. It doesn’t seem like you’d have to slice open the bulkheads and retrofit a cargo ship to load these things. They would easily fit into a standard flatbed shipping container. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2009, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arctic-sea-hijacking/508300/29 "2009-09-24T05:35:58Z")
According to the article, they were hidden in hollowed-out logs. ---
**Author:** ![Henrichek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5daacb/32.png) [@Henrichek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Henrichek)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2009, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arctic-sea-hijacking/508300/30 "2009-09-24T09:38:51Z")
As far as I know the missiles used by S-300 are sealed in the launch tubes, and would require some massive logs to hide in. Furthermore, the missiles by themselves are of no use as they also need the radar and command vehicles, as well as training to use them effectively. Getting a limited number of missiles would probably do them no good against an Israeli attack in the not so distant future. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2009, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arctic-sea-hijacking/508300/31 "2009-09-24T09:46:20Z")
Dunno. I’m not a professional smuggler, and I’m not familiar with their methods. ---
**Author:** ![Henrichek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5daacb/32.png) [@Henrichek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Henrichek)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2009, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arctic-sea-hijacking/508300/32 "2009-09-24T10:05:51Z")
Here’s another article with new information: [BBC NEWS | Europe | Crew 'welcomed' Russian 'pirates'](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8271954.stm) I’m not sure what to make of it though. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arctic-sea-hijacking/508300/33 "2009-09-25T07:51:09Z")
> [@Henrichek](#): > > As far as I know the missiles used by S-300 are sealed in the launch tubes, and would require some massive logs to hide in. Furthermore, the missiles by themselves are of no use as they also need the radar and command vehicles, as well as training to use them effectively. Getting a limited number of missiles would probably do them no good against an Israeli attack in the not so distant future. A whole is the sum of it’s parts. Either they have the other parts or will get the other parts. ---
**Author:** ![Wallenstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b5a626/32.png) [@Wallenstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallenstein)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arctic-sea-hijacking/508300/34 "2009-09-25T08:14:22Z")
And another article (using some of the same sources I imagine). > **[Was the cargo ship Arctic Sea really hijacked by pirates?](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/sep/24/arctic-sea-russia-pirates)** > > In July a Russian-crewed cargo ship vanished off the coast of Finland. Moscow claims it was hijacked. Now one of the accused exclusively reveals a very different version of events . . . Re. the S-300s “_Russia’s president, Dmitry Medvedev, told CNN last Sunday that he didn’t have a problem with flogging weapons to Iran, so long as they were for defensive purposes. Russia has a contract to supply Tehran with S-300s, but so far has not delivered them_.” ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arctic-sea-hijacking/508300/35 "2009-09-25T09:07:59Z")
> [@Wallenstein](#): > > And another article (using some of the same sources I imagine). > > [Was the cargo ship Arctic Sea really hijacked by pirates? | Piracy at sea | The Guardian](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/sep/24/arctic-sea-russia-pirates) > > Re. the S-300s “_Russia’s president, Dmitry Medvedev, told CNN last Sunday that he didn’t have a problem with flogging weapons to Iran, so long as they were for defensive purposes. Russia has a contract to supply Tehran with S-300s, but so far has not delivered them_.” Which is interesting because I read over a year ago that they would be on-line in November of 2008. Remember the tactical war games that Israel went through last summer with the overflight permission of Turkey? ---
**Author:** ![Henrichek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5daacb/32.png) [@Henrichek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Henrichek)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arctic-sea-hijacking/508300/36 "2009-09-25T11:12:34Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Which is interesting because I read over a year ago that they would be on-line in November of 2008. Remember the tactical war games that Israel went through last summer with the overflight permission of Turkey? The first article in the link below has some information regarding S-300 deliveries. > [@](#): > > [RBS News as quoted by RIA](http://en.rian.ru/papers/20090924/156242202.html) > > Moscow knew that Washington would ask it to cancel or at least delay the delivery of S-300 surface-to-air missile (SAM) systems to Iran in response to the U.S. decision not to deploy a missile defense system in Poland and the Czech Republic. > > The Kremlin was ready to make this virtual exchange. > > Presidents Dmitry Medvedev and Barack Obama are “ready to exchange the virtual gifts,” a source in the Russian Foreign Ministry said on condition of anonymity. > > “The Americans will abandon the deployment of the missile defense system in Poland and the Czech Republic, which they were going to abandon anyway, and we in response postpone the S-300 deliveries, which we were not hurrying to deliver,” he said. > > In 2005, Moscow and Tehran signed a contract for the delivery of S-300 SAMs to Iran in response to Washington’s withdrawal from the 1972 Anti-Ballistic Missile (ABM) Treaty in 2003. > > Not a single S-300 system has been delivered to date, and most importantly Russia has not started to train Iranian military personnel to use the weapons. > > “To turn the S-300 from a piece of iron on wheels into a full-fledged weapons system, operators require at least a year of training,” said Vladimir Yevseyev, a military expert at the Russian Academy of Sciences’ Institute of World Economy and International Relations (IMEMO). > […] The lack of hurry with regards to the deliveries are probably due to the diplomatic discussions over Iran’s nuclear program. ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arctic-sea-hijacking/508300/37 "2009-09-25T11:54:53Z")
> [@Henrichek](#): > > As far as I know the missiles used by S-300 are sealed in the launch tubes, and would require some massive logs to hide in. Furthermore, the missiles by themselves are of no use as they also need the radar and command vehicles, as well as training to use them effectively. Getting a limited number of missiles would probably do them no good against an Israeli attack in the not so distant future. Command systems may well have been part of the package, or obtained seperately. A limited number of missiles would be of some utility also for a country like Iran capable of back-engineering such systems (although that is without doubt not a preferred option for complex systems, necessity is the mother of…). > [@Magiver](#): > > A whole is the sum of it’s parts. Either they have the other parts or will get the other parts. Quite. ---
**Author:** ![Henrichek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5daacb/32.png) [@Henrichek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Henrichek)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arctic-sea-hijacking/508300/38 "2009-10-01T11:42:47Z")
There seem to have been some issues with the handover of the Arctic Sea to Malta. The Maltese authorities seem to have refused to take part in the handover, and I don’t know why: > **[Malta raises objections over Arctic Sea handover — investigators](https://sputnikglobe.com/20090917/156161641.html)** > > The Arctic Sea is unable to call at the Spanish port of Las Palmas after Malta refused to take part in the handover of the ship. That article is a couple of weeks old, and I don’t know what has happened since then. Regarding the sale of S-300 to Iran, Saudi Arabia seems to be offering a 2-7 billion $ arms deal with Russia with the condition that the S-300 is not sold to Iran: > **[Saudis seek Russian pledge on missiles | Financial Times](https://www.ft.com/content/38e8ec8e-ad21-11de-9caf-00144feabdc0?nclick_check=1)** > > News, analysis and comment from the Financial Times, the worldʼs leading global business publication ---
**Author:** ![Henrichek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5daacb/32.png) [@Henrichek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Henrichek)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2009, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arctic-sea-hijacking/508300/39 "2009-10-02T16:33:25Z")
Here’s an interesting related event. It’s very recent and I haven’t found it reported at any anglophone news outlet yet, but it so happens that the M/S Arctic _Sky_, sister ship of the Arctic Sea, has run aground outside of Sweden after performing some strange turns last night. It is also carrying timber, to the same destination as the Arctic Sea was supposed to. That shipping company seems to be having some bad luck… Maybe this time it’s just a drunk crew. The buyer of the timber is apparently the same as for the Arctic Sea shipment, so it seems like they’ll have to wait again. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2009, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arctic-sea-hijacking/508300/40 "2009-10-02T16:36:29Z")
This is like the beginning of a Tom Clancy novel… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arctic-sea-hijacking/508300.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arctic-sea-hijacking/508300.md?page=3)