# Are 1 in 4 women depressed? What can be done? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 3, 2017, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-1-in-4-women-depressed-what-can-be-done/785770 "2017-05-03T12:14:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Silver\_lining](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Silver\_lining](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_lining)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2017, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-1-in-4-women-depressed-what-can-be-done/785770/1 "2017-05-03T12:14:33Z")
No jokes in this thread please. 1 in 4 women in the USA is a lot of people. Why is this happening and what can be done? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2017, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-1-in-4-women-depressed-what-can-be-done/785770/2 "2017-05-03T12:35:02Z")
Cite? Specifically, how is “depression” being defined? ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2017, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-1-in-4-women-depressed-what-can-be-done/785770/3 "2017-05-03T12:35:14Z")
What can be done? For starters, redefine what is meant by depression, and remove incentives for treatment. Because I suspect that is largely responsible for some portion of the apparent growth in depression. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2017, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-1-in-4-women-depressed-what-can-be-done/785770/4 "2017-05-03T12:44:26Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > What can be done? For starters, redefine what is meant by depression, and remove incentives for treatment. Because I suspect that is largely responsible for some portion of the apparent growth in depression. What in God’s name are you talking about, “incentives”? ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2017, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-1-in-4-women-depressed-what-can-be-done/785770/5 "2017-05-03T16:03:45Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > What in God’s name are you talking about, “incentives”? Mental health providers and drug manufacturers profit from treating mental illness, and have incentives to the extent more “conditions” are characterized as treatable pathologies rather than variations on “normal.” Such as the APA (not IMO a disinterested organization) expanding the definition of “depression” and eliminating bereavement in the latest DSM. Or the direct advertisement of medications to prospective patients. The idea that a magic pill can make you happy and “symptom-free” - and that “someone else” should pay for it. Or the fact that people receive secondary gain from being characterized as “disabled,” absolving them of responsibility for their shortcomings. Obviously such factors do not apply in every case. But IMO, in combination, they contribute to an unhealthy dynamic. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2017, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-1-in-4-women-depressed-what-can-be-done/785770/6 "2017-05-03T18:17:40Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > No jokes in this thread please. 1 in 4 women in the USA is a lot of people. Why is this happening and what can be done? Because we have redefined “normal” to exclude 1 in 4 women. And a similar albeit smaller number of men. Or perhaps it’s not because of any pharma-medico industrial complex plot, but simply because we’ve managed to build a defective society that works poorly for a hefty fraction of its inhabitants. Just like it’s not paranoia if they’re really out to get you, it’s not inappropriate depression if it’s an accurate response to your ghastly surroundings and prospects. Or perhaps nothing has changed at all. To within a narrow margin, people of both genders have the same variations of attitudes as they always have. But now we’re noticing the shape of that distribution curve and deciding it’s not what we wish it was. Consider how often the word “melancholy” appears in 1800s writing, both then-current fiction and then-current non-fiction. ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2017, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-1-in-4-women-depressed-what-can-be-done/785770/7 "2017-05-03T18:37:24Z")
I’ve read a few reports of this nature in recent months and it makes me wonder, are women really more depressed than men or are men just less likely to report it? After all men are significently more likely to commit suicide than women, perhaps its just the mental side of the fact that women are more likely to seek medical treatment in the first place? As for what can be done about it, I don’t know, but there must be some problem with western society that so many people are feeling this way and I don’t think we should be making it a gender issue. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2017, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-1-in-4-women-depressed-what-can-be-done/785770/8 "2017-05-03T19:12:25Z")
Back in 1970, women were happier than men. As of recently, that has reversed - men are slightly happier on average than women. ([Cite](http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/25/business/worldbusiness/25iht-leonhardt.7636350.html).) Maybe clinical depression has increased and is pushing the average down. Or maybe divorce and single motherhood and work stress have burdened women more than men. Or maybe the diagnosis of “depression” has expanded. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2017, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-1-in-4-women-depressed-what-can-be-done/785770/9 "2017-05-03T21:31:12Z")
Maybe the fact that on the average day, women spend about twice as much time as men on housework and childcare has something to do with it. Makes me exhausted just thinking about it. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2017, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-1-in-4-women-depressed-what-can-be-done/785770/10 "2017-05-03T22:42:25Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Maybe the fact that on the average day, women spend about twice as much time as men on housework and childcare has something to do with it. Makes me exhausted just thinking about it. 😕 But you gals like doing all those things, right? 😕 j/k ---
**Author:** ![Crazy\_Canuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazy_canuck/32/5282_2.png) [@Crazy\_Canuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazy_Canuck)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2017, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-1-in-4-women-depressed-what-can-be-done/785770/11 "2017-05-03T22:54:18Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Mental health providers and drug manufacturers profit from treating mental illness, and have incentives to the extent more “conditions” are characterized as treatable pathologies rather than variations on “normal.” In that case, you would expect that up here in socialist Canada, where neither doctors nor drug manufacturers profit from treating mental illness, there would be a lower rate of depression then, correct? Except there isn’t. Here’s a cite which states [“There was no difference in the prevalence of depression and mental health service use between Canada and the United States.”](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17215414) Also, not one professional in two decades of treatment for depression has ever called anti-depressants a “magic pill.” As a matter of fact, most are extremely clear that they are not magic happy pills. IME that term is used only by people with an axe to grind against the mental health profession. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2017, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-1-in-4-women-depressed-what-can-be-done/785770/12 "2017-05-03T23:42:24Z")
[One in four women has been a victim of sexual assault](http://www.oneinfourusa.org/statistics.php) [40% of American women are obese.](http://time.com/4359637/obesity-americans-women-men/) [25% of Americans suffer from chronic pain. Women are disproportionately represented.](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/17/opinion/sunday/women-and-the-treatment-of-pain.html) [Women report higher stress levels than men](http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/stress/2012/gender.aspx) [Women still do most of the housework and childcare.](https://thinkprogress.org/even-today-women-still-do-most-of-the-housework-and-childcare-ea8b11e7aee1) Even though they are [the sole or primary breadwinner in 40% of households](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/30/business/economy/women-as-family-breadwinner-on-the-rise-study-says.html). [Social media makes people in general feel bad](https://www.forbes.com/sites/alicegwalton/2017/03/06/social-media-and-social-isolation-go-hand-in-hand-but-which-comes-first/#127fa7bc1785). ---
**Author:** ![Great\_White\_Dope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/22d042/32.png) [@Great\_White\_Dope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_White_Dope)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2017, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-1-in-4-women-depressed-what-can-be-done/785770/13 "2017-05-04T01:08:18Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Maybe the fact that on the average day, women spend about twice as much time as men on housework and childcare has something to do with it. Makes me exhausted just thinking about it. Given that women doing housework and childcare is on the decline, whereas, women with depression is on the rise, I’d say you need to ask for a refund from whoever taught you how to think. A more logical conclusion would be the rise of third-wave feminism, which tells women they’re useless unless they’re career women, plays a big role. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2017, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-1-in-4-women-depressed-what-can-be-done/785770/14 "2017-05-04T01:22:01Z")
> [@Great\_White\_Dope](#): > > …I’d say you need to ask for a refund from whoever taught you how to think. This is a warning for personal insults. If you feel you must the Pit is right around the corner. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2017, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-1-in-4-women-depressed-what-can-be-done/785770/15 "2017-05-04T01:23:03Z")
> [@Great\_White\_Dope](#): > > Given that women doing housework and childcare is on the decline, whereas, women with depression is on the rise, I’d say you need to ask for a refund from whoever taught you how to think. > > A more logical conclusion would be the rise of third-wave feminism, which tells women they’re useless unless they’re career women, plays a big role. Please, do go on…:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2017, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-1-in-4-women-depressed-what-can-be-done/785770/16 "2017-05-04T01:24:32Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Or perhaps it’s not because of any pharma-medico industrial complex plot, but simply because we’ve managed to build a defective society that works poorly for a hefty fraction of its inhabitants. Just like it’s not paranoia if they’re really out to get you, it’s not inappropriate depression if it’s an accurate response to your ghastly surroundings and prospects. Women today in America have more freedom, prosperity, longevity, etc. than at almost any other time or place in the history of the planet. The idea that they have “ghastly surroundings and prospects” is laughable. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2017, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-1-in-4-women-depressed-what-can-be-done/785770/17 "2017-05-04T01:52:40Z")
My point was not specifically about women. I agree that US women have it objectively better now than women have had had in almost all of history in almost everywhere. But that’s only about women vs. men in any one of these times and places. It’s not relevant to discuss now vs. then or here vs. there; a single individual can’t be in both times/places to make the comparison. It’s a truism in psychology that happiness is the excess of reality over expectations. And conversely, that sadness is the shortfall of reality under expectations. Recognizing that “reality” is actually “perception of reality”. So we’re really talking about the delta between expectations vs. perceptions. Both of which are mental states that are only loosely correlated to objective facts. What I am suggesting is exactly the kind of discontent that drove the recent election. Lots of people believe, rightly or wrongly, that the world is stacked against them and that things are worse for them than they were for their parents. Society is changing for the worse, changing faster than they can cope, and most news is bad news. That might not be an objective fact, but it is their perception. And it falls short of their expectation, triggering discontent and unhappiness. If you expected the cushy life of a high wage unionized plant worker then the wages went to hell then the plant closed and you’re unemployable at age 48 you’re gonna be depressed. Despite having a much easier life in an absolute sense than your great-great-great granddad did as a hired hand sodbuster in Nebraska in 1810. The same kinds of issues apply to women as well. Jobs pay less than expected and are more hectic, reliable family roles aren’t as reliable as expected. The problems in **monstro** ’s various links are all out there. The career / home mix isn’t all it’s cracked up to be. Etc. That was the point I tried to make, albeit so succinctly that it wasn’t obvious what I meant. Thanks for pointing that out. In many ways, depression is a “First World problem”. You’ve got to have enough to eat and some free time to be able to act on being depressed. In prior years depressed people simply soldiered on as best they could or starved or drank themselves to death. They sure didn’t seek help in public. That doesn’t mean there were more or fewer then. Simply that they were less obvious as a distinct group with a distinct pathology. As I said up-thread, the term “melancholy” was popular in 1800s writings for a reason. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2017, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-1-in-4-women-depressed-what-can-be-done/785770/18 "2017-05-04T01:53:13Z")
I wonder if there is any connection between depression and auto-immune disorders. Women have much higher rates of auto-immune disorders, and depression potentially has inflammatory aspects to it. > **[Does Inflammation Cause Depression? Growing Evidence Suggests Immune System...](https://www.medicaldaily.com/does-inflammation-cause-depression-growing-evidence-suggests-immune-system-may-396048)** > > Growing evidence suggests that an unlikely body system may play a big role in the onset of depression. No idea if there is a connection though. ---
**Author:** ![Tee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Tee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tee)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2017, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-1-in-4-women-depressed-what-can-be-done/785770/19 "2017-05-04T02:04:53Z")
I thought third-wave feminism is about combating expectations, not redefining them. That gets lost sometimes, we’re expected to do everything, to feel wonderfully fulfilled and to look great doing it. By whom? Ourselves. Why? Expectations. God only knows where they came from. That’s a big picture thing, a smaller picture would be a friend who never has time for herself and won’t make time for herself, because of so many other pressing issues (other people) and has to be told, you deserve this. You deserve a day out, time off, a night away from the children, or whatever. “Oh no, I couldn’t.” (?) Well, you could, but you won’t, and that could be bad. An even smaller picture is one of the self, like **LSLGuy** described, a nagging feeling that we’ve gone backwards in time. All of us, not just women. Although that’s a matter of perception and attitude; if 1 in 4 women are depressed it means 3 out of 4 aren’t. That’s actually better than I thought. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2017, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-1-in-4-women-depressed-what-can-be-done/785770/20 "2017-05-04T11:14:02Z")
> [@Great\_White\_Dope](#): > > A more logical conclusion would be the rise of third-wave feminism, which tells women they’re useless unless they’re career women, plays a big role. I think this is key. I believe modern feminism causes an incredible amount of confusion (and thus stress) for women who instinctively want a more traditional role in a family. If a woman does not want to work and would instead rather stay home and raise children, she is made to feel like a piece of shit. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-1-in-4-women-depressed-what-can-be-done/785770.md?page=2)