# Are AA and 12 Step Program effective?

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-aa-and-12-step-program-effective/346596>\
**Category:** Factual Questions\
**Created:** [March 1, 2006, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-aa-and-12-step-program-effective/346596 "2006-03-01T09:20:54Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 3\
**Page:** 2

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**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\
**Post date:** [March 2, 2006, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-aa-and-12-step-program-effective/346596/21 "2006-03-02T10:28:29Z")

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AA states “higher power as you define it.” Which could be oneself, one’s partner, the moon, or a god.  
Sorry, I know that’s nothing to do with the OP, just wanted to clarify.

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**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\
**Post date:** [March 2, 2006, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-aa-and-12-step-program-effective/346596/22 "2006-03-02T13:09:21Z")

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> [@dnooman](#):
>
> AA has a step that makes one admit submission to a “higher power”, is that not religion?

A higher power need not be a supernatural being. I once heard a story of a guy who chose the sign at K-Mart as his higher power. He walked past it every day, and to him, it stood for “ **K** eep **M** y **A** ss **R** ight **T** oday”.

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**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\
**Post date:** [March 2, 2006, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-aa-and-12-step-program-effective/346596/23 "2006-03-02T14:36:48Z")

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> [@](#):
>
> AA has a step that makes one admit submission to a “higher power”, is that not religion?

No rules in AA, you don’t even have to stay sober. You do not have to take the steps. ( Works better if you do but you do not have to. They don’t **make** you. I know a lot of AA, (most) who have not taken all the steps perfectly. Don’t know many that would claim they did.

Remember, there are no dues or fees. no list, no ‘you have too.’ People who claim there are, are misinformed.

Third member of the original AA who also stayed sober was an atheist. Lots of them in the program. Lots do not admit to a higher power. A lot just admit that they are not the ‘higher power’ and do just fine.

AA is free. AA does not recruit. Judges who send folks willy nilly are not to swift IMO. But what else, zero tolerance like we have / had with any drug possession? Other programs want $$$ or have too little staff to handle the court sent troops.

AA has no staff as such, teachers, instructors, etc. It is free and is everywhere.

At the national office, they have some civilians who get paid to be sectaries etc.

Ever notice that on the page of the Big Book where the steps are that it starts out, “Here are some steps which are **suggested** as a program of recovery …”

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