# Are Aaron and Erin homophonic? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 3, 2002, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-aaron-and-erin-homophonic/126813 "2002-09-03T15:06:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-aaron-and-erin-homophonic/126813/121 "2011-02-25T20:33:37Z")
I imagine Aaron as being correctly pronounced Aah-rawn, although I pronounce it Aah-rin. I’ve never heard it pronounced “Eh-rin” or “Eh-rawn” as others have suggested. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-aaron-and-erin-homophonic/126813/122 "2011-02-25T20:54:10Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > I really don’t know what you’re arguing at this point. Succinctly – the vowels (viz /æ/ and /ɛ/) that lend distinction between “Aaron” and “Erin” essentially exist in every American English dialect. That was in response to your post that “_… there’s not necessarily a whole lot of difference between a ‘foreign’ phoneme and **one that’s just not in your particular dialect**._” If we’re dealing with American English speakers, it’s a virtual certainty that these both of these vowels (/æ/ and /ɛ/) are, indeed, in their particular dialect. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-aaron-and-erin-homophonic/126813/123 "2011-02-25T21:12:03Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > Succinctly – the vowels (viz /æ/ and /ɛ/) that lend distinction between “Aaron” and “Erin” essentially exist in every American English dialect. > > That was in response to your post that “_… there’s not necessarily a whole lot of difference between a ‘foreign’ phoneme and **one that’s just not in your particular dialect**._” If we’re dealing with American English speakers, it’s a virtual certainty that these both of these vowels (/æ/ and /ɛ/) are, indeed, in their particular dialect. But not in the contexts we’re talking about (for example, followed by [r]), and context can be crucial in phonemic systems. Look at the problems that English speakers have with the Vietnamese name _Nguyen_. It starts with a phoneme [ŋ] that exists in almost every dialect of English, but never appears word initially. When used that way by a Vietnamese speaker, there are the same problems of perception and understanding. Most English speakers parse it as something like [nuwɪn] or [nujɛn] or [wɪn]. And even if your point is taken, it really doesn’t mean anything. Are you trying to assign some kind of blame or deficiency to those people who don’t perceive phonemes the way you do? It just doesn’t work that way. If you haven’t been taught a certain sound combination, it’s very common that you just won’t be able to hear it, regardless of news anchors or whatever. It’s a nearly unremarkable phenomenon in human speech. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-aaron-and-erin-homophonic/126813/124 "2011-02-25T21:19:15Z")
> [@ultrafilter](#): > > How are you pronouncing “baron”? In my speech, “Erin”, “Aaron”, “baron”, and “heron” all rhyme. I’m an American, btw. I’m also an American and to my ears (and tongue) _none_ of those four words rhyme with _any_ of the other three! Erin = ɛr in Aaron = e rǝn baron = bæ rǝn heron = hɛr ǝn ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-aaron-and-erin-homophonic/126813/125 "2011-02-25T21:26:44Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > And even if your point is taken, it really doesn’t mean anything. I disagree – my ultimate point is that it’s a lot easier to (a) take a phoneme you already use naturally and learn to re-apply it in different contexts than it is to (b) adopt a phoneme that has no analog in your own dialect. > [@](#): > > Look at the problems that English speakers have with the Vietnamese name Nguyen. It starts with a phoneme [ŋ] that exists in almost every dialect of English, but never appears word initially. When used that way by a Vietnamese speaker, there are the same problems of perception and understanding. Most English speakers parse it as something like [nuwɪn] or [nujɛn] or [wɪn]. All true, but you’re describing an English speaker that’s trying to wing it. With prompting and repetition, an English speaker can learn to produce [ŋ] word-initially. I concede that few English speakers will be motivated to master this in real life … but there’s no insurmountable physical or cognitive impediment. > [@](#): > > Are you trying to assign some kind of blame or deficiency to those people who don’t perceive phonemes the way you do? It just doesn’t work that way. If you haven’t been taught a certain sound combination, it’s very common that you just won’t be able to hear it, regardless of news anchors or whatever. It’s a nearly unremarkable phenomenon in human speech. Not trying to assign blame or deficiency at all. I agree with you that these distinctions have to be taught to adult learners. Voice coaches do routinely. I just want to remind the thread’s readers that the distinctions _can_ actually be learned – both perception and (with more difficulty) fluent production. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-aaron-and-erin-homophonic/126813/126 "2011-02-25T21:27:44Z")
Well, dangit, that’s a danger of zombiethreads: I may answer differently now than I did then! [QUOTE=AHunter3 in 2002] Not even close. I grew up in the South, and “Aaron” rhymes with “hey run”, not “baron”, and definitely not “Erin” or “heron”. (“Erin” should rhyme with “heron”). [/quote] The first syllables of Erin and heron rhyme. I’m going to go with 2011 vintage me though and say Erin and heron don’t rhyme because of the second syllable. Less schwa for Erin, more I. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-aaron-and-erin-homophonic/126813/127 "2011-02-25T21:35:37Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > I disagree – my ultimate point is that it’s a lot easier to (a) take a phoneme you already use naturally and learn to re-apply it in different contexts than it is to (b) adopt a phoneme that has no analog in your own dialect. Maybe, maybe not. When it comes to trying to get the guy sitting at the bar next to you to hear things in a way he’s not used to, you can be surprised. > [@](#): > > All true, but you’re describing an English speaker that’s trying to wing it. With prompting and repetition, an English speaker can learn to produce [ŋ] word-initially. I concede that few English speakers will be motivated to master this in real life … but there’s no insurmountable physical or cognitive impediment. I didn’t mean to suggest it’s insurmountable, but it is highly unlikely. > [@](#): > > Not trying to assign blame or deficiency at all. I agree with you that these distinctions have to be taught to adult learners. Voice coaches do routinely. Voice coaches do it with people who have a reason to expend extensive effort relearning phonemes and often with people who are already proficient and flexible with language. And, as you say, they are highly motivated. People who just happen to be watching TV when an anchorman comes on with a MINMINM accent are not likely at all to pick up on it and draw contrasts with their MIMIM accents. > [@](#): > > I just want to remind the thread’s readers that the distinctions _can_ actually be learned – both perception and (with more difficulty) fluent production. Yes, just like the people on this board who have made a conscious effort to understand language, pronunciation, etc., have been able to. Even then, it can require conscious effort in order to apply such learning. But it’s not something that should be expected from people who haven’t. It’s uncalled for to accuse them of living in fishbowls. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-aaron-and-erin-homophonic/126813/128 "2011-02-25T21:40:31Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > It’s uncalled for to accuse them of living in fishbowls. 😕 That was someone else altogether. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2011, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-aaron-and-erin-homophonic/126813/129 "2011-02-25T21:47:03Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > 😕 > > That was someone else altogether. I realize that, but it looked like the arguments were pointing in the same general direction. Succintly: People who take the time and effort to study language can probably learn the distinctions. That should not raise expectations that people who have not taken such time and effort will be able to perceive them. And it’s easy to overestimate the abilities and underestimate prejudices of the general public. We’re not only talking about bare skill and ability. We’re also talking about the psychological factors surrounding language. Most people want to believe that they speak correctly and that everyone who is different is wrong. It’s evident in this very thread. This reflexive attitude itself is a barrier to perception and understanding. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-aaron-and-erin-homophonic/126813.md?page=6)